How many tankers and tenders per fleet?

[McPerth]

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the jump fuel.

Then what has it to do with? A larger PP may do it faster, so I guess it has to do with burning the fuel to produce power....

And even if not, it's to asume that the fuel is used at the begining of the sequence to charge the capacitors, and there are still the 2 turns to refuel them...

 

[mike wightman]

The full jump process might take two rounds, but the fuel is still consumed in a few hours, far faster than the tanker can transfer.

Why can't a tanker be fitted with the same pumps as a drop tank and thus achive the same fuel transfer rate?

If a drop tank can feed its fuel into the jump fuel process why can't a tanker?

This is something that has long made little sense for the other fuel tank solutions.

 

[mike wightman]

But most ships have not BG, and need those two turns to produce the power.

Most military ships have power plants large enough to do it in one turn.

 

[McPerth]

Most military ships have power plants large enough to do it in one turn.

True, I already said that most military ships do, but civilian ones rarely, and that does not mean they cannot do it slower, to allow their tanks to be refilled.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Then what has it to do with? A larger PP may do it faster, so I guess it has to do with burning the fuel to produce power....

Fuel is consumed when you jump, not when you prepare to jump. You can change your mind and not allocate power to the jump drive the second round, cancelling the jump, and hence not consume any jump fuel.

 

[McPerth]

Fuel is consumed when you jump, not when you prepare to jump. You can change your mind and not allocate power to the jump drive the second round, cancelling the jump, and hence not consume any jump fuel.

Then, again, why is it EP (so PP size) dependent?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Why can't a tanker be fitted with the same pumps as a drop tank and thus achive the same fuel transfer rate?

I didn't write the rules or the setting.

If we allow ships to jump without any concern for fuel we are changing the setting...

 

[McPerth]

I didn't write the rules or the setting.

Fact is rules are unclear in most those ítems. A ship with BG and enough EPs on his capacitors to allow it to jump still need fuel, poinint your way, but then, What is fuel used to?

If we allow ships to jump without any concern for fuel we are changing the setting...

Just as much as the drop tanks change it, as this would only be using tankers as drop tanks once. The concern for the fuel will keep, once the tankers are left behind.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Then, again, why is it EP (so PP size) dependent?

EPs are produced during normal operation of the PP, so uses PP fuel.

Why would the power requirement not be proportional to the size of the jump drive?


When jump fuel is consumed:

When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive. In the interests of rapid energy generation, the power plant does not work at full efficiency, and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products, and in cooling the system.

Much more energy is generated, much quicker, consuming a lot more fuel, than normal.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Just as much as the drop tanks change it, as this would only be using tankers as drop tanks once. The concern for the fuel will keep, once the tankers are left behind.

Drop tanks have significant disadvantages: they are consumables and a logistical nightmare.

Tankers can be used anywhere and are not consumed.

 

[McPerth]

EPs are produced during normal operation of the PP, so uses PP fuel.

Why would the power requirement not be proportional to the size of the jump drive?


When jump fuel is consumed:

Much more energy is generated, much quicker, consuming a lot more fuel, than normal.

And doing it in two turns (about 2000 seconds) meets what you say, doesn't it?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

And doing it in two turns (about 2000 seconds) meets what you say, doesn't it?

No, the next sentence is:

At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity.

 

[mike wightman]

I didn't write the rules or the setting.

If we allow ships to jump without any concern for fuel we are changing the setting...

I agree with you.
Drop tanks are single time items if they are used in drop tank mode, and are destroyed in the process according to the setting. Tankers or fueling stations would not be able to provide the fuel quickly enough to get clear of the jump process which would lead to bad things for the jump ship and the station/tanker.

 

[mike wightman]

I think the process should read as
1. charge capacitors (this is the bit that the power plant does under normal parameters or can be achieved by a black globe)
2. feed jump fuel at full rate to jump power plant.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I think the process should read as
1. charge capacitors (this is the bit that the power plant does under normal parameters or can be achieved by a black globe)
2. feed jump fuel at full rate to jump power plant.

Agreed, something like that.

 

[McPerth]

Drop tanks have significant disadvantages: they are consumables and a logistical nightmare.

Tankers can be used anywhere and are not consumed.

I agree with you.
Drop tanks are single time items if they are used in drop tank mode, and are destroyed in the process according to the setting.

In CT and MT this is true, in MgT, not always, there are recoverable drop tanks...

And tankers also have their drawbacks, and tis use, leaving them behind (and if jumping latter doing it with Little intellignece about the results) even more. I don't see this possibility as too setting.breaking, just another tactic...

 

[AnotherDilbert]

In CT and MT this is true, in MgT, not always, there are recoverable drop tanks...

Doesn't really matter; whether they have a 50% or 100% attrition rate they are used up.

 

[McPerth]

Doesn't really matter; whether they have a 50% or 100% attrition rate they are used up.

In MgT (1E, I don't own HG2E), at TL 14+ they don't suffer attrition (page 44 HG).

At TL14 the use of drop tanks has been improved to such a degree that drop tanks designed at this tech level or above will automatically survive use.

At lower TLs, as you say ,they habv a high rate of attrition, but I guess most Naval opperations (Sword Worlders and Vargr aside) ar TL14+

 

[AnotherDilbert]

In MgT (1E, I don't own HG2E), at TL 14+ they don't suffer attrition (page 44 HG).

MgT2 has fixed that:

When a drop tank is used and jettisoned, roll 2D. On 8+, the tank survives the ejection process and can, in theory, be retrieved and reused. Otherwise, it is destroyed by the expanding jump bubble or warped by the jettison explosion. In addition, drop tanks are automatically destroyed once their ship has lost 10% of its Hull points.

 

[flykiller]

heh. three pages of "how many fuel angels can jump on the head of a refueling pin".

can't defend all refueling points.

could game it out, you know. once put up a system for playing out all of this here. two guys ran through a "hello world" scenario, but no-one else expressed any interest at the time ....