Old_Dr_Skull
SOC-10
There are a fair number of dictatorships and bureacracies out there that might be ruled by a hereditary line. How often does it occur that the planetary rulers are also the imperial titled nobility in the region?
How often are planets ruled by nobles?
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I was going to answer with my stock "none of them" but the question allows a revisit to my earliest thinking on this subject.
Basic world building generates the local government.
All Imperial and Client worlds have some representation and locally interested (even if not locally invested or available) Imperial bureaucracy and nobility.
The key to your question and what I admit I'd not given much thought to was how much they overlap and how often they are the same. I'd always kept them distinct before, it was simpler
I suppose important worlds might be more likely to be a single government, i.e. the world gov is the Imperial Bureaucracy and Noble responsible for that world. That would possibly be the core worlds, capitals, high tech, high pop, and Starport Class A worlds... with the exception of any Gov 7 (Balkanized) worlds.
Outside of those important worlds it could be or not, I'd probably go with not myself but there would be exceptions. I don't think I see a hard and fast rule for it though.
Basic world building generates the local government.
All Imperial and Client worlds have some representation and locally interested (even if not locally invested or available) Imperial bureaucracy and nobility.
The key to your question and what I admit I'd not given much thought to was how much they overlap and how often they are the same. I'd always kept them distinct before, it was simpler
I suppose important worlds might be more likely to be a single government, i.e. the world gov is the Imperial Bureaucracy and Noble responsible for that world. That would possibly be the core worlds, capitals, high tech, high pop, and Starport Class A worlds... with the exception of any Gov 7 (Balkanized) worlds.
Outside of those important worlds it could be or not, I'd probably go with not myself but there would be exceptions. I don't think I see a hard and fast rule for it though.
As Dragoner already said, as many as you want and, as you already pointed out, there are several government codes which lend themselves to such an interpretation.
When you remember that the Imperium is an association of governments and not an association of citizens and that the Imperium's "Join Us" sales pitch was aimed at governments of worlds and not the inhabitants of worlds, the idea that a patent of imperial nobility was part of the price for signing the dotted line makes good sense.
New Era 1248 gave a gov code of "N" for a world that was ruled directly by an Imperial Noble, but gave no rules for generating them other than by GM fiat, New Era 1248 also said Gov 6, unless it also had another world listed in the description as "owned by", were also Imperial governed, and no rules for generating that other than GM Fiat as well.
Other than those two references to Imperial Rule (and it was 4th Imperial rule), and even in those cases, it ss as many as you want to have in your game.
Other than those two references to Imperial Rule (and it was 4th Imperial rule), and even in those cases, it ss as many as you want to have in your game.
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Old_Dr_Skull
SOC-10
I guess I'm grappling with the question "Are people nobles because they are powerful or powerful because they are nobles." Is the "Hereditary Autocrat of Beemis XII" likely to also be a Marquis, or is there a Marquis on world too, whose job is to mediate between the Autocrat and whatever the Imperial Bureucracy actually does.
Perhaps I just don't understand what the nobles do.
Perhaps I just don't understand what the nobles do.
Reward nobles and courtesy nobles (spouses) don't.
Territorial/Working nobles do. They oversee the local imperial bureaucrats, and serve as representative to the subsector and sector moots for the world. They may also serve as imperial justices and court-of-justice officers (prosecutor, clerk). They also report on the activities of the local world to the sector and subsector governments.
It's implied that they oversee the collection of imperial taxes.
JTAS 14 provides a fairly clear (and later) canonical answer to what functions they fill. S4 is both vague and not OTU specific; JTAS 14's article on the justice systems of the imperium isn't.
"N" is an Aslan government code. Something about vassal clans, I think.
Several codes above F have had multiple meanings. Always check the source materials before blanket statments of that sort, 77topaz.
Heck, collapsed sectors for TNE have different codes BELOW code F.
No, you can't.
The canonical listing for worlds directly ruled by the Imperium is Code 6: Captive. The only canonical example in CT was Terra, which is noted as direct marine corps rule.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Do you recall where he's said that? It really doesn't match the way I've always seen the Imperium. If I had to pigeon-hole the Imperium into the basic Gov codes I'd say it was at least built on, if not still operating as Gov 3 - Self Perpetuating Oligarchy - Government by a restricted minority(1), with little(2) or no(3) input from the masses.
(1) Nobles/mega-corps
(2) Citizens/services and local world govs
(3) Subjects (everyone else) - except as they are represented by their local world gov
Frankly, Gov 5 for the Imperium makes no sense to me
A Gov 6 world can also be ruled directly by an adjacent world, or organisation, not just the central Imperium government/Capital.
Old_Dr_Skull
SOC-10
But a world ruled by a noble, does not mean that the world is directly ruled by the Imperium. We're used to separation of hierarchies: the army general, the state governor, and the Federal District Attorney all must be different people, and taking one job requires leaving another.
I think that this is far from the case in the Imperium. Count Ogelthorpe might be a naval commander, the count of the New World Cluster, and the hereditary president of New World Prime, as well as Vice President of Ling Standard Products New Worlds Division.
It seems to me that it would be pretty frequent that the reason a family was ennobled was that it ruled a powerful world that the imperium wished to incorporate.
I think that this is far from the case in the Imperium. Count Ogelthorpe might be a naval commander, the count of the New World Cluster, and the hereditary president of New World Prime, as well as Vice President of Ling Standard Products New Worlds Division.
It seems to me that it would be pretty frequent that the reason a family was ennobled was that it ruled a powerful world that the imperium wished to incorporate.
It was direct navy rule, iirc in CT at least. However, you seem to be confusing occupied worlds versus noble ruled.
It's on the AP2 disk:
"I would call the structure of the Imperium a Feudal Technocracy."
© 1982 Marc Miller – High Passage #5.
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