How to wreck a car

[Icosahedron]

I just read a book in which the villain shoots up his pursuers' parked cars to prevent them being used, and the hero then commandeers a horse to give chase.

Now I'm thinking a vehicle with shot tyres (or even a holed radiator, which wasn't in the story) is going to provide a better means of pursuing a motorised quarry than a horse - difference in speed and endurance compared with time taken to change a wheel... But then I'm not the author...

However, it got me to thinking... Putting a round or two into the tyres or the radiator is a stock way to disable a TL7- ground car, but how would you disable a vehicle that runs on fuel cells, a MHD turbine or a fusion reactor? What about grav vehicles? What would be the vulnerable hit locations for future vehicles?

 

[Hyphen]

Well,th the first rule (as a GM) is "don't use the _Striker_ location tables when shooting at a ground car" - they're set up to mimic tanks, which generally have their engines in the rear...

*Ahem*. Anyway, to continue, I suggest trying to disable the propulsion systems will be almost always viable:
wheels
tracks (albiet a bit harder)
grav modules
jet engines
chopper blades
outboard motors
etc.

I think one of the MT rules was that you could target specific points on a vehicle with Exceptional Success, and (from memory) apply any damage to that part, rather than to the hull's structural points. I think you still had to penetrate the armor, tho' (Wil, do you have the rules handier than I do?)

 

[far-trader]

A couple quick shots into the dashboard of a future tech vehicle will probably disable it the way the controls are generally described.

EDIT: Of course that presumes access to the interior. Without that you're better off saving your time and ammo. Most future tech seems naturally less susceptible to damage and/or armoured enough to make such a tactic as shooting it unproductive. Heck it's not even that effective against current tech, contrary to HollyWood mythology.

 

[aramis]

I think one of the MT rules was that you could target specific points on a vehicle with Exceptional Success, and (from memory) apply any damage to that part, rather than to the hull's structural points. I think you still had to penetrate the armor, tho' (Wil, do you have the rules handier than I do?)

You declare you're trying before rolling to hit; if successful hit but not exceptional, normal hit - roll location. If Successful and had exceptional success (made by 2+), then...

Vs Structure: AV halved
Vs Visible Crew: AV halved*
Vs PP: AV Normal.
Vs Other: not explicitly allowed.

See MT PM page 73.

* common sense says use their full worn armor if higher... but the rules don't.

 

[BytePro]

Shot the carbon based control unit :devil:

far-trader has the right of it, IMO. Shoot your way into the cabin, if need be.

Shooting the tires may slow down a pursuer and screw up steering - but won't directly disable a car. Shooting the radiator may just discomfort them if they know to turn on the cabin heater.

Better bet is to shoot open the hood (toughest part - heck, stuck hoods can seem harder to open then changing a tire) and then shoot something that can't easily be jury rigged around in the spur of the moment. The distributor in older cars. Modern cars there are dozens of things in the engine compartment to shoot (one shot guaranteed is the positive (U.S.) battery terminal, if you don't mind the acid spray).

More clandestinely, use the barrel to release the hood latch. There are a lot of things (especially in a modern car) that can be disconnected and a number simply removed by hand in a matter of seconds. Yank off a bunch of small diameter tubes (most fuel rails have the fuel line easily removed - and the rest will get vacuum lines), disconnect the wires going to the plugs and any electrical snap connects. Often the drive belt can be easily removed by just pulling up on the tensioner pulley. Factor radiator line and sometimes air intake clamps often remove without tools. Strong tools or something to use as a small wrench - unscrew a battery bolt and pop it out of the terminal connector... (older cars could push start and then run without a battery - good luck nowadays!)

I mention all this because the same would likely hold true for futuristic stuffs - if cabin access is too conspicuous or unavailable. Shoot at or get access to the drive/mechanical/control areas and proceed with mayhem.

 

[Enoki]

I would say to thoroughly disable any vehicle you're going to have to put more than a few shots here and there into it.

From your example, shooting the tires and radiator doesn't disable a typical car. It will still start and run. Driving on flat tires won't be optimal, and the radiator will eventually empty but before the engine seizes up the car will run.

Shooting a few controls on something more advanced probably won't stop it from working either. Holing the engine block, fuel cell, or other power supply would likely stop most vehicles from working.

On the whole, if you were in a hurry and just trying to do a random job of it, I'd say anything short of high explosives (4cm grenades, hand grenades, explosives, rocket launcher etc.) is unlikely to do the job unless the firer is very, very accurate or lucky with their shots.

 

[Dragoner]

Shooting up a normal car would pretty much disable it, without a radiator, you would have minutes at most before the engine seizes up and on flats, acceleration, control and braking would be severely limited. It's hollywood that shows cars being filled with holes and still functioning. Puncture a valve cover or crankcase and you lose your oil control, hit the timing belt and it would stop immediately, cars are designed with no ability to take damage and keep running. Only the passenger compartment is designed with protection in mind and that is only crash protection for the occupants.

 

[samuelvss]

Shooting up a normal car would pretty much disable it, without a radiator, you would have minutes at most before the engine seizes up and on flats, acceleration, control and braking would be severely limited. It's hollywood that shows cars being filled with holes and still functioning. Puncture a valve cover or crankcase and you lose your oil control, hit the timing belt and it would stop immediately, cars are designed with no ability to take damage and keep running. Only the passenger compartment is designed with protection in mind and that is only crash protection for the occupants.

Agreed, but most of these take a few minutes. A unarmored HMMWV (Hummer) is not hardened in the engine compartment, but the fire taken by them did not, IIRC, stop any in the Battle of Moghadishu. Shooting out the tires severely degrades, but does not stop a car immediately, and exposive blowouts are not the usual results of simple gunfire. If I am running in a car from someone on foot who ventilates the car with gunfire, I will likely get away (assuming I survive), even if the car stops in a few minutes. The best way to stop a car with gunfire, in a short space, is to shoot the driver; not that that's Easier, but the driver is a quicker payoff target if hit.

 

[BytePro]

Yep - get under the hood and there are lot of ways* - but from outside, bullets are small compared to the overall volume and ones odds of hitting a critical item to guarantee prompt failure... even puncturing the gas tank several times is no quick guarantee. (*Pre-emmission control/fuel injection less so...).

Target the carbon based control unit! :devil:

 

[Blue Ghost]

Aren't fuel cell cars essentially electric?

I think you can open the hood and throw salt water on thing to disable it.

 

[samuelvss]

Target the carbon based control unit!

Reminiscent of something von Richthofen said about not shooting up machines, but aiming for the pilots.

 

[bookwyrm67]

at the higher tech levels, the driver might be silicon based (robots or robot controlled) or remote controlled on higher lawleveled planets. less accidents than using carbon based drivers... :frankie:

 

[BytePro]

Ah... good point. At higher TLs always use Nanokeel® APSCP* rounds.

*Armour Piercing Super-sprawl Contact Point - the extreme dispersal nanite rapid decomposition round available in exclusive custom killer red or coward yellow. Sized for standard, rapid-rail 9000, 3 mm and 12 mm chiral channel. Aromatic and custom logo options available.

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Whip out your portable EMP Projector and fry the avonics on higher tech level vehicles.

Grenade launcher or RPG will defintely grab their attention. (And really think about that.) Who in there right mind is going to chase someone willing to use a RPG on a car? I wouldn't, because he may have another one or something even worst (Chaingun)....

 

[Carlobrand]

I would at this point like to point out the recent news item about the Darwin winner who shot at a butane tank and got killed by the ricochet...

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...-tank-but-bullet-ricochets-and-kills-him?lite

... and mention that, for all the key differences between a butane tank and a car or grav vehicle, this particular task is still not something I'd enjoy rolling an exceptional failure on.

 

[Enoki]

I'd say the best low tech solution is the Molotov cocktail.... That will pretty much finish an unarmored vehicle and potentially even an armored one if it lands in the right spot....

 

[Icosahedron]

Thanks for the responses guys.
I have personal experience from driving a series of wrecks that an empty radiator won't seize an engine within a few minutes - in fact if it's a rattly old thing with plenty of wear and consequently plenty of room for expansion, it can run for a surprisingly long time - we're talking hours - though being involved in a high speed chase may affect that, and a tight new car would be a different matter, I imagine.

Similarly, I've driven a vehicle with a two inch hole in the engine block. If the hole isn't in the sump, and doesn't damage the internal components, you only lose oil through spatter, and it'll run for weeks or even months if you have an oil can in the back... Long enough to save up enough pocket money for another second-hand death-trap, anyway.
I had another car that was throwing so much black smoke out that its oil consumption was actually higher than its petrol consumption - something like 20 miles to the gallon - and it still ran!
I got rid of that one when the smokeys took an interest in the smoke - and I was running out of waste oil to throw down the filler anyhow.

Of course, that was back in the day when cars were built to last...

Anyhow, what I was really wondering was, are grav modules, fuel cells and fusion reactors susceptible to bullets? I suppose as some of you have pointed out, it would be a matter of targeting some essential components, feeder pipes, wiring nodes, black boxes or whatever. Maybe the actual power plant blocks are no more or less vulnerable than the old internal combustion engine?

 

[BytePro]

I'm picturing grav modules and fuel cells more like your holed engine block - perhaps easier to puncture, but made of numerous internal 'cells' and redundant connectors such that you would see a loss of performance, but only, exceptionally, complete failure.

The fusion reactor is a bit harder (pun). Well, besides picturing it being made of more sturdy stuffs (assuming no 'cold' fusion), I don't see such as compartmentalized like the other two. Damage the right part and no power, but actually hitting it enough to damage it would be the problem, IMO.

Can more likely see EMI/Thermal cladding or shielding damaged in such a way as to cause failure after a brief period - likely due to automatic shutdowns.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I would say to thoroughly disable any vehicle you're going to have to put more than a few shots here and there into it.

From your example, shooting the tires and radiator doesn't disable a typical car. It will still start and run. Driving on flat tires won't be optimal, and the radiator will eventually empty but before the engine seizes up the car will run.

However, most people think driving their automobile in those conditions isn't possible, so it might very well "disable" a pursuer. Also, making the vehicle harder to control (shooting out the tires on one side) may effectively "disable" it (as someone else stated). Lastly, if you shoot the tires AND shoot the engine block AND shoot the battery, you might make it undriveable much more quickly.

And, I agree with Far-Trader: if you shoot out the computer controls in the dashboard, it won't matter if the high-tech vehicle starts, the driver won't be able to control it. This doesn't work with a 1963 Mustang, but it will work with the vehicle I've seen ads for recently - the shifter is a dial like the volume on your radio. You couldn't even shift out of park if you put a single round into it. Better hope there's a hoverboard handy somewhere......

 

[Putraack]

I'd say the best low tech solution is the Molotov cocktail.... That will pretty much finish an unarmored vehicle and potentially even an armored one if it lands in the right spot....

Plus, if it's on fire, the pursuer won't want to get in and chase until the fire's out.

Marginally less effective on a vehicle with a non-flammable fuel source (fuel cell), but you might melt those control components and any number of important wires and circuit boards.