How to wreck a car

[BytePro]

Good point - and back to the idea of shots - fuel cells don't always have to be based on water - so toxic fumes could slow someone down. And fuel cells (at least today's) of this sort generate lots and lots of heat - so kill the cooling system and they might stop working sooner than a TL7 car...

[And one point on modern combustion cars that might be relevant (and that really, really annoys me!) - a shot through the middle of the hood might just take out the freak'n plastic intake manifold - screwing up not only the air intake, but all the associated sensors 'conveniently' slapped into it and even allowing coolant to enter the cylinders!]

 

[Blue Ghost]

Ah... good point. At higher TLs always use Nanokeel® APSCP* rounds.

*Armour Piercing Super-sprawl Contact Point - the extreme dispersal nanite rapid decomposition round available in exclusive custom killer red or coward yellow. Sized for standard, rapid-rail 9000, 3 mm and 12 mm chiral channel. Aromatic and custom logo options available.

Have any that smell like roses?

 

[BytePro]

Sure - red and yellow (to match the casing options)

*Though some jurisdictions prohibit selling of aromatic rounds citing environmental concerns... Nanokeel and its parent corps abide by all local, system and regional interstellar ordinances.

 

[far-trader]

Whip out your portable EMP Projector and fry the avonics on higher tech level vehicles.

I think with the price and wide ranging environments of most of Traveller's high tech vehicles that EMP hardening is likely to be part of the package. Not all mind you, certainly not the cheaper, lower tech, and strictly civilian shirt-sleeve vehicles.

 

[Icosahedron]

the freak'n plastic intake manifold

Yeah, I couldn't believe that when I first heard of it. :nonono:

 

[Enoki]

I think with the price and wide ranging environments of most of Traveller's high tech vehicles that EMP hardening is likely to be part of the package. Not all mind you, certainly not the cheaper, lower tech, and strictly civilian shirt-sleeve vehicles.

I'd think that would be normal on any vehicle made to be used on a variety of worlds or any that could travel in a near or complete vacuum. EMP hardening is not that difficult or expensive to do after all:

All cabling has an outer drain (grounded) foil or brided sleeve on it.
All electronic devices are housed in the equivalent of faraday cages and isolated from the shell of the housing electrically.
All electronic connections when not in use have grounding covers that are (or can be) placed over them.
That's about the extent of what is needed for protecting most or all electronics from EMP.

 

[Sturn]

From your example, shooting the tires and radiator doesn't disable a typical car. It will still start and run. Driving on flat tires won't be optimal, and the radiator will eventually empty but before the engine seizes up the car will run.

Taking out the tread on even just 2 tires WILL eventually disable a vehicle. Not immediately, but the tires will quickly shred and the vehicle's wheels will be slipping/sparking on hard pavement. For game purposes the number of tires shredded will greatly reduce the time to disability, difficulty of driving the vehicle will greatly increase, speed will greatly decrease, and certain terrains will immediately stop the vehicle - dirt, grass, ditches, and uphill roadways to think of a few. The difficulty in controlling the vehicle will also greatly increase the chance of the vehicle having an accident which disables it.

I've first-hand knowledge on multiple occassions of above using "stop sticks". Typical use doesn't shred all 4 tires, you are lucky sometimes to get 2, the typical effect in my experience. The cars do keep going, but slow rapidly, meander out of control, and a few blocks later come to a stop by: getting stuck on certain terrains such as mentioned above, the driver bails out of the nearly disabled vehicle, or it crashes into an object.

The furthest I've personally seen a vehicle go after losing 2 tires is around 20 city blocks. I suppose having a straight, flat or down-hill highway to travel down could greatly increase the distance.

 

[BytePro]

Sturn - sure, puncturing tires, leading to deflating and shredding the tread of tires, will assist stopping someone being chased. But, as you say, spike strips don't immediately disable a vehicle - it can still move till the right combination of conditions are met. It wouldn't help a pursuer's vehicle (esp. assuming they don't have some effective run-flat tires) - but it sure would be extremely unlikely to 'prevent them from being used'.

Enoki's response was 'From the example' given by the OP...

OP's scenario was 'villain shoots up his pursuers' parked cars to prevent them being used, and the hero then commandeers a horse to give chase.'

Enoki also preceded his quoted line with (emphasis mine):

I would say to thoroughly disable any vehicle you're going to have to put more than a few shots here and there into it.

Puncturing the tread of a tire doesn't directly disable a vehicle, and having the same effect as a spike strip (and one's I've seen have hollow spikes to assure deflation) with just shots could be pretty difficult.

 

[Icosahedron]

Even today, an ever larger number of tyres have run-flat capability as a safety feature. Give it another TL and they could be mandatory. Dunno how good they are, though, I've never tried them. No doubt they'd improve with advancing technology.

I will agree, though, that once you're down to the rims you might find a horse to be quicker and more reliable...

 

[DangerousThing]

And, I agree with Far-Trader: if you shoot out the computer controls in the dashboard, it won't matter if the high-tech vehicle starts, the driver won't be able to control it. This doesn't work with a 1963 Mustang, but it will work with the vehicle I've seen ads for recently - the shifter is a dial like the volume on your radio. You couldn't even shift out of park if you put a single round into it. Better hope there's a hoverboard handy somewhere......

I'm thinking that the *real* computer that controls the car is in a hard-to-get-to place, even on a civilian vehicle. You just whip out your iPhone 34567.32, and bring up the app to control your car.

And if you're really good, you contron the vehicle remotely and run the bastard down!

 

[far-trader]

I'm thinking that the *real* computer that controls the car is in a hard-to-get-to place, even on a civilian vehicle. You just whip out your iPhone 34567.32, and bring up the app to control your car.

And if you're really good, you control the vehicle remotely and run the bastard down!

dundedun dun dun dun dundedun dun dun dun dundedun dun dun dun...



Which Bond movie was that from again? Cool, I hadn't thought of the remote idea. Good one. Yes the CPU would probably be elsewhere, or not, the idea was the controls would be shot to heck. Remote might still work though...

...of course then maybe I hacked into your chase vehicle instead of disabling it and just drive you off a bridge when you follow me across it :devil:

 

[Rigel Stardin]

dundedun dun dun dun dundedun dun dun dun dundedun dun dun dun...



Which Bond movie was that from again? Cool, I hadn't thought of the remote idea. Good one. Yes the CPU would probably be elsewhere, or not, the idea was the controls would be shot to heck. Remote might still work though...

...of course then maybe I hacked into your chase vehicle instead of disabling it and just drive you off a bridge when you follow me across it :devil:

With the advent of red light camera and camera used in publc spaces to monitor crime in some countries, we can assume surveilence by the police will become even more intrusives in the future.

That being said, all the cops will have to do is find out your vehicle ID number and flick a switch and your car stops dead in it's tracks. Of course if you disabled that function before the crime begins it might alert the cops to your presences as well. This will all depend on how much control the police have over such things.

I think we really need to let the idea of remotely operationing your personal transport craft alone. There are to many nasty things the cops or the bad guys can do if they get a hold of the control codes of vehicles...

 

[far-trader]

With the advent of red light camera and camera used in publc spaces to monitor crime in some countries, we can assume surveilence by the police will become even more intrusives in the future.

Quite. I was going to start in on that as well but too little time too many dis.. NO, I will not be distracted this time, for a few minutes anyway

More to the point, and mentioned in much sci-fi, Traveller included, future tech takes control away from the person. The "personal" vehicle is grid controlled for safety. Heck we're even working on and getting there already in the Real World.

Naturally the criminals will work around that. Off-grid vehicles, spoofed emergency vehicle transponders, etc.

The would be civic hero jumping into their "personal" vehicle to give chase is going to find it impossible to do so. The grid won't allow it. If they somehow disable the interface they'll be the ones the cops come chasing when they exceed the traffic laws.

There are to many nasty things the cops or the bad guys can do if they get a hold of the control codes of vehicles...

...but that's what makes it fun :devil:

 

[BytePro]

I may be mistaken - but does OnStar already have the ability to disable a car (for the stated purpose of stopping car thieves from using it)?

Hacking their system might be challenging - but directory assistance and a phone call along with the VIN and some creative 'social engineering' (i.e. conning) should get them to do your work for you.

Don't recall a suitable Bond flick - but remote vehicle control featured prominently in 'After the Sunset' (a good flick with a 'Bond' - Pierce Brosnan - 'course I watched it for Salma Hayek! ).

 

[far-trader]

I may be mistaken - but does OnStar already have the ability to disable a car (for the stated purpose of stopping car thieves from using it)?

They can locate your car and unlock and perhaps start it without keys for you I think. You might be thinking of Lo-jack features, istr they having a shut down feature, not sure though.

Don't recall a suitable Bond flick - but remote vehicle control featured prominently in 'After the Sunset' (a good flick with a 'Bond' - Pierce Brosnan - 'course I watched it for Salma Hayek! ).

Googled a bit, coincidentally also Brosnan, think I was thinking of Tomorrow Never Dies. Might have been another one with one too.

 

[77topaz]

I'm thinking that the *real* computer that controls the car is in a hard-to-get-to place, even on a civilian vehicle. You just whip out your iPhone 34567.32, and bring up the app to control your car.

And if you're really good, you contron the vehicle remotely and run the bastard down!

Blowing up the engine, though, would probably stop the vehicle.

 

[far-trader]

Blowing up the engine, though, would probably stop the vehicle.

Which one :devil:

Just saying, I've seen concept vehicles and have designed many for my own games where the drive wheels are the engines, so to stop such a vehicle you will have to disable most if not all of the drive wheels. You may not stop it but only slow it down. And they're probably pretty tough, possibly protected by a skirt, an armoured skirt in cases of a vehicle designed for harsh environments.



I think each vehicle is likely to have its own weak link which if the character is familiar with they can quickly and easily disable. The key being will the character be that familiar with the vehicle in question?

 

[Rigel Stardin]

Mr. Far Trader sir:

Which brings me back to my comment about RPG and Grenades.

Think about what would happen to the individual who would give chase such criminal barbarians. Think about what would happen if such criminal master minds decided to whip out another RPG on a busy transit grid and our stallworth heros avoid the deadly missile. It sail on pass them and hits the happless minivan filled with nuns and orphans. Try explaining that one to the local authorities? Do you really think our heros would walk way from such a chase without facing criminal charges? Heaven forbid if our heros were Walker Texas Space Rangers. If they were lucky, they be busted down to muck raking sanitation engineers and ship off to the ice mines on Zeta 4...

The further we move away from the age of sword and pistol our cultural attitudes towards violence will change. Police surveilance of such criminals geniuses would be perfered over the lost of life which might occur. Our mythical transit grid may also contain a way to kill the vehicles engine without even entering the vehicle's control system (Digital Spike Strips). Such systems would disable the vehicle at a flip of a switch and bring the craft to a safe stop...

As we progress into that future HiPop HiTech world, the standard car chases will be a thing of the past (At the present rate of Hydrocarbon fuel source, it would be more expensive than the crime itself). Criminals will be robbing banks via the Planetary Information Service and rerouting that shipment of Star Stones by hacking the Universal Parcel Service's mainframe. These will be much better methods of committing a crime than being label mass murders and baby killer by the tabliod press and much more perferable than being atomized at the local court house by bloodless devices used by future DA's seeking reelection on the basis of showing the city how tough he is on crime...

Leave such vehicle chase in the past where they can be romantized and sung about in hot metal rap songs. Let them be used by future school teachers to point out the lawless nature of the 21st century and used as cautionary plot device by some future fairy tale about cops and robbers...

Thank you.

 

[Hyphen]

You're probably correct. Even the flycycles in Ringworld were "captured" and impounded, probably having broken some local law.

It was a pretty boring bit of the novel, however.

Maybe we can discuss how to have our hi tech and still allow car chases. Do we do an Arnie and rip out the robot driver?

 

[Rigel Stardin]

I'm quite aware the car chase is a staple of any good action film. I still remember doing one of the car chases when I ran a game back in the late 80's. When setting up such a scenario you have to take into account the law level, ratio of cops to citizens, and of course the tech level. Then you're going to have to determine how much the culture is going to let you get away with before they pull out all the stops and bring your fun to an screeching halt...

The sad thing about car chases in the future on our mythical HiPop HiTech world is there will be no weapons involved. It will be more like those movies from the 30's and 40's where the Private Eye hops into the taxi and yell's at the driver, "Follow that Car!" In the end you'll end up paying the taxi driver a few hundred extra credits to have him keep up with the baddies just to find out where their hideout is and then the fun can begin in ernest...

Now out on the frontier it will be quite a different story. That colony world where Space Rangers ride brightly colored gravcycles with large shine bulleyes...er, badges on there chest. Those will be worlds our stallworth Heros will mount their might air rafts and track those pesky coyotes down with guns ablazen...

Then there are worlds like ours where the only thing you have to worry about is the SWAT team arriving to spoil the fun. Then there is also the possiblity if you are having to much fun, the military joins in on the party and it becomes a real rip snorting time on the I 10 from Sin City to Tombstone...

My rule of thumb has always been, the Higher the tech the less fun you can have. Civilized beings take a dim view of us less civilized people who still believe that if shot at, return fire with superior firepower. Having fun chasing after the bad guys maybe something to think about because our heros may end up in more trouble than it's worth...

As for the bad guy who damaged my pimped out AR 290Z Air Raft with ghost flames and custom interior leather seats. Yeah you guys, know the one in the parking lot. Yet bet your waste producting orfices, I'm going to find away to chase them down and teach those pesky varmins a lesson...