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Hull configurations in 2300 AD (all versions)

McPerth

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All those reflections were done while designing (or modifying) my own Steer Wheel Warp Frame and Barges ship.

The lack of grav technology in 2300AD means to the need of spin habitats in the ships. All of its versions give us several ways to achieve it:
  • Spun hull
  • Double hull
  • Hamster cage
  • Spin capsules
  • Extendable spin capsules
  • Two body
Of those, the spun hull is the easiest and chapest of all, but only gives the nedded confort to about 20% of the ship. It can be easily achieved though with a ring (or tor) configuration (akin Traveller lab ship), leaving nearly all the ship at confortable levels of gravity (as most of the ship is in fact the exterior part of it) but, to my surprise, I only remember two ship designs in all (AFAIK) 2300AD (both in classic 2300AD) that use it (and in both cases, only to a point):
  • Russian Tula frigate (Traveller Digest #16, pages 53-55)
  • Brazilian Vaca animal transport ship (Shps of the French arm, pages 56-57)
Do you know about more published ships with this ring configuration?

I'd expect to be quite a usual one for most military ships that are not thought to land (and, according MgT 2300AD no ship over 1000 dtons may land), usually using the central part (unusable by humans) to keep most machinery and/or fuel.

Thoughts?
 
Wasn't the New Orleans class liner also a spun hull design? The description mentions passengers have to look at the floor to look out the windows.

I don't think a spun hull would be the best design for military ships. A spun hull is going to need a pretty large diameter in order for coriolis forces from the spin not to cause disorientation on the crew. The larger diameter means a larger cross section along every axis than a fighting ship might want.

That's why many military ships have retractable spin capsules. They can retract them before combat in order to reduce the cross section of the ship from all axises. Having a large cross sectional area means you're easier to detect and hit.
 
Wasn't the New Orleans class liner also a spun hull design? The description mentions passengers have to look at the floor to look out the windows.

Yes, is spun hull, but not ring configuration (maybe I was not clear I meant this ring configuration in the OP).

I don't think a spun hull would be the best design for military ships. A spun hull is going to need a pretty large diameter in order for coriolis forces from the spin not to cause disorientation on the crew. The larger diameter means a larger cross section along every axis than a fighting ship might want.

That's why many military ships have retractable spin capsules. They can retract them before combat in order to reduce the cross section of the ship from all axises. Having a large cross sectional area means you're easier to detect and hit.

That's a good point, but how will a ring configuration be in this sense?. After all, the surface shown in the cross section needs not to be larger than any other ship, as the inner part of it is empty.
 
Even if a torus is hollow it needs a minor axis thickness to fit a deck and between deck infrastructure (pipes, ducts, wiring, etc). Unless the major axis diameter is vastly wider than the minor axis diameter, there’s not going to be a lot of empty space in the ring. Less after the volume of the main hull is taken into account.

From many angles a ring is going to have a pretty significant cross sectional area. The cross sectional area affects the detectability and target silhouette of the ship. A big habitat ring can’t be retracted so it’s just a target in combat and a drain in damage control resources afterwards.
 
To bring in another game ...

GURPS Vehicles has three types of spin habitat. It notes that working spin gravity is basically a gyroscope and unless the ship has a pair of counterrotating spin habitats, the ship must shut down the spun part of the hull before it can maneuver.

I think the military problem with a spun hull is that damage control becomes more difficult than a design with stacked decks, although the rules don't expressly state this.
 
Let's assume the Kennedy-class missile cruiser was designed with a Spun Hull. This would require 180 tons (900 x 20%) be allocated to fuel, cargo or low maintenance machinery. The cruiser carries no fuel beyond fissionables (0 tons) ans not much cargo (37.8 tons). I don't think the ship has any significant components that can be considered "low maintenance" -- certainly not the powerplant.

So, the cruiser would have to greatly reduce the size of the powerplant (and thus stutterwarp drive) to get sufficient free "waste" space for the spun hull. This clearly makes the spun hull version significantly less capable than the printed version.

So, no, I think that 20% space requirement for non-critical components rather eliminates warships from using spun hulls.
 
Let's assume the Kennedy-class missile cruiser was designed with a Spun Hull. This would require 180 tons (900 x 20%) be allocated to fuel, cargo or low maintenance machinery. The cruiser carries no fuel beyond fissionables (0 tons) ans not much cargo (37.8 tons). I don't think the ship has any significant components that can be considered "low maintenance" -- certainly not the powerplant.

So, the cruiser would have to greatly reduce the size of the powerplant (and thus stutterwarp drive) to get sufficient free "waste" space for the spun hull. This clearly makes the spun hull version significantly less capable than the printed version.

So, no, I think that 20% space requirement for non-critical components rather eliminates warships from using spun hulls.

Well, a ring configuration (the one I'm defending here), while being spun hull might be empty in its center, so not really needing to devote any such space to fuel, cargo or low maintenance machinery.

For solid spun hulls, there's no such 20% space requirement for non critical components, but what is said is that 20% of the ship`can be held at comfortable gravity, for humans, the rest being not. The advantage of the ring configuration is that this 20% is in fact most of the ship volume. As no bouble is needed by the warp, the empty space is not counted (as I understand) for mass.

The space that is unusable for crew and passengers, and usually used by cargo, fuel or low maintenance machinery is the central 15m radius, that uses to be empty in a ring configuration. And even so, it does not say that it is unliveable by humans, and the fact it may be used by low maintenance machinery hits (as I see it) that people can work for short periods on it.

OTOH, I guess this same ring hull configuration would need to be more or less balanced to maintain structural integrity. If one side holds too much mass more than the otherm I guess the ship will ahve some kind of problems. All of this is represented in my Steer Wheel Warp Frame design.

In this same design, as I told in the description (sorry, I could provide no graphics, my graphic skills being abysmal), and for those same balance reasons, in the center of the ring there is section (united to the main ring by the pylons) that holds the power plant, and warp drives that I guess can be considered low maintenance (most control functions are performed form other parts or by the repair bots). After all, the need of only 6 engineering crew (2/shift, I guess) for a 110 dton fision plant (and the fact that, being a fission plant, probably people don't work directly on it) and 1 per shift for the warp drives (in the bridge) makes me think that people rarely visits this part.

I don't see why the Kennedy could not have a similar configuration, with its fusion power plant in the central part of the ring and the spun habitat in the ring itself. Depending on the width of the ring, the radius could be quite good for it.

The main problem I see on this configuration in military ships, aftyer thinking a little more on it, is for the turrets and missiles controlers and TTAs, as the rotation of the ship may change the aspects for them, unless also set in the center part (that will probably be larger than the unusable 15 m radius), leaving the spun ring just for the habitats.
 
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I found an old thread where this post lonks to two very interesting articles towards the issue of dimulated gravity:

Here are the articles I mentioned in my last post, for those who hadn't seen them before:

Artificial Gravity: Which way is Up? by John G Cramer, with some well-drawn examples of what's different about life in a spin habitat.

Inhabiting Artificial Gravity by Theodore W Hall. All the math you'll ever need to simulate hooping, throwing etc. in a spinning frame of reference. It summarises and analyses all figures from other authorities on what spin rates are deemed comfortable etc. The section on Variation within the Supposed Comfort Zone has the piece I read on Gravituy gradients.

Enjoy.
 
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