General I read the news today, oh boy...

[Jame]

May I ask a question born out of my ignorance?

What has FFE and Mongoose already done to/for Cepheus Engine (and its publishers) that CAN be changed?

(I was under the impression that OGLs are forever and things now in Open Content are safe in Open Content - including future derivatives - until and unless there is a major COURT decision that changes the enforcement/interpretation of Laws.)

So is there any power in FFE or Mongoose beyond choosing to make future T5 or MgT work OGL/Open Content?
I really want to understand your concern (I root for 3PP).

I believe that the fear is that the Cepheus publishers will be subject to the OGL being suddenly revoked anyways.
How true or likely this is, I don't know, but they have put tremendous work into their products, and want to know that they can continue as things stand.

 

[atpollard]

I remember talk about moving some 3PP from OGL to Creative Commons.

Did that ever happen and was it ever shown to be possible or practical?

(Obviously, I am just asking questions and identifying alternatives until Matt states HIS position/opinion on Cepheus Engine. I know Marc stated his support for it and had an area created on COTI to support it, so Marc views it as “Traveller Community”. Only Matt can state Matt’s position.)

 

[MongooseMatt]

I think my main concern is how they proceed with Cepheus Engine publishers.

The door is always open. Some Cepheus publishers are talking to us, some are not - we can only help the former.

Always happy to chat.

 

[Independence Games]

Frankly, as long as the OGL remains in place, the Cepheus publishers are protected by it and all will continue as is. Most of us have gone a fair distance away from "being Traveller" in setting and tone anyway and that distance increases with every release by the publishers. At this stage, there's not only very little resemblance between things like Hostile and Clement Sector with Traveller, but also little resemblance between Hostile and Clement Sector themselves.

Jason Kemp used the OGL-based SRD as well as other SRDs to create a base for us to launch from and we have all launched in different directions.

Further, during the OGL crisis, it became obvious to several of us that if we wished to continue, we needed to be sure that we could continue forward without the OGL. For me, it has meant an increasing distance between my products and Traveller and things taken from the SRD in one way or another.

To sum this up, the only potential danger to the publishers such as myself is if the OGL comes down and we suffer some sort of threat from Mongoose. If the OGL remains in place, there's no possibility of threat. If it does go down and there's no threat from Mongoose, there's no problem. If there is a threat from Mongoose, we have ways to avoid that as well.

So we're not going away though, in my case, you may see less of me in Traveller-related spaces.

 

[Marcatlas]

I believe that the fear is that the Cepheus publishers will be subject to the OGL being suddenly revoked anyways.
How true or likely this is, I don't know, but they have put tremendous work into their products, and want to know that they can continue as things stand.

That will only matter if they try to publish into the I.P. of Mongoose/trav. E.G. use the published settings, etc. The rules in the OGL cannot be copyright anyways so Cepheus can use those forever no matter what happens with the OGL.

 

[Spinward Scout]

What has FFE and Mongoose already done to/for Cepheus Engine (and its publishers) that CAN be changed?

Well, if it's anything like Disney, Mongoose could make everything except their current rulebook non-canon and make Traveller: The Sequel Trilogy.

 

[Dragoner]

May I ask a question born out of my ignorance?

What has FFE and Mongoose already done to/for Cepheus Engine (and its publishers) that CAN be changed?

(I was under the impression that OGLs are forever and things now in Open Content are safe in Open Content - including future derivatives - until and unless there is a major COURT decision that changes the enforcement/interpretation of Laws.)

So is there any power in FFE or Mongoose beyond choosing to make future T5 or MgT work OGL/Open Content?
I really want to understand your concern (I root for 3PP).

I simply do not want to get hassled for what I am doing right now, future bring what it may. I am rather a distance from the standard OTU, a far orbit at least. Being right is one thing, winning is often a function of money in legal battles.

With Mongoose at the top of the food chain, anything that grows the environment feeds them:



Analytics from DTRPG for one book (Andromeda Dragons); if one sale of any of these helped Mongoose, it is free money to them.

 

[aramis]

That will only matter if they try to publish into the I.P. of Mongoose/trav. E.G. use the published settings, etc. The rules in the OGL cannot be copyright anyways so Cepheus can use those forever no matter what happens with the OGL.

In the US, that's true to a point. Only the exact wording is protected, but that wording does require license.

And that licensed wording saves a lot of rephrasing.

 

[MongooseMatt]

In the US, that's true to a point. Only the exact wording is protected, but that wording does require license.

This is true, while rules in themselves are not protected, the expression of those rules are.

Paizo went through some frankly heroic efforts to do this with later iterations of Pathfinder, and I tip my hat to them - it is not something I would want to do, the pitfalls are legion and they were tweaking the lion's (WotC's) tail while doing itl.

 

[Marcatlas]

In the US, that's true to a point. Only the exact wording is protected, but that wording does require license.

And that licensed wording saves a lot of rephrasing.

True, but it's still safer to stay clear of story line material as opposed to rule wording. To avoid possible trouble if not using a license.

 

[Marcatlas]

This is true, while rules in themselves are not protected, the expression of those rules are.

Depends. Tables and such are not protected. Superfluous descriptions like examples are. The stated rules are not. This is all in the USA of course. I just worked with a company that just finished that for a D&D like game that had been using the SRD and has now tossed the SRD. Wasn't really needed in the first place as the SRD contained almost zero I.P. to start with

 

[Independence Games]

That will only matter if they try to publish into the I.P. of Mongoose/trav. E.G. use the published settings, etc. The rules in the OGL cannot be copyright anyways so Cepheus can use those forever no matter what happens with the OGL.

To a degree. However, I hope you're not under some impression that if the OGL goes down that Mongoose would not be coming after the CE publishers within the hour.

Unless Matt has changed his opinion since last year, he has no interest in allowing us to continue as is. The OGL goes down, Mongoose will most assuredly be coming after us.

Now that may never happen. The OGL may be prove to be as permanent as was originally intended. But we've already seen how Mongoose would react to that and there's no reason to think the next time would go differently.

 

[mike wightman]

Just make up a new rule system to go with your bespoke setting.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Unless Matt has changed his opinion since last year, he has no interest in allowing us to continue as is. The OGL goes down, Mongoose will most assuredly be coming after us.

That is a complete misrepresentation. We said we would cover you all if the OGL disappeared, and we used the word 'indefinitely'.

 

[Independence Games]

That is a complete misrepresentation. We said we would cover you all if the OGL disappeared, and we used the word 'indefinitely'.

It is not.

You absolutely refused to let us continue as is. Your offer was to put us into a program where you would be able to tell us what could/could not be published. In addition, you rather explicitly stated that we would need to get rid of our rulebook and point people toward buying the MgT2e rulebook.

So no. Not a misrepresentation in the least.

You were quite open about your desire to not allow us to continue as is. I would have no expectation that you would do things differently in a future exchange.

 

[Independence Games]

Just make up a new rule system to go with your bespoke setting.

Yes, sir.

 

[Independence Games]

Truly, at this stage, it hardly matters. The OGL remains in place and we're taking steps for it not to be a problem if it goes away.

 

[Marcatlas]

To a degree. However, I hope you're not under some impression that if the OGL goes down that Mongoose would not be coming after the CE publishers within the hour.

If they lacked a brain and a half way decent lawyer they might. Courts take a VERY dim view violating the law in anti-competitive ways. For instance the last time Hasbro tried it they lost the case THEN 44 State AG's sued the company and won MANY MANY millions. A tiny company like Mongoose would not survive the attempt at violating US copyright law.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Marc, reading this whole post

 

[bookwyrm]

Well, if it's anything like Disney, Mongoose could make everything except their current rulebook non-canon and make Traveller: The Sequel Trilogy.

1. On the one hand, because I found this Post to be very amusing in the nicest way possible, I give it a Emoji!
2. On the other hand, because of my personal negative view of Disney's version of Episodes 7-9 for a popular Sci-Fi movie series, I also give it a (sad or unhappy) Emoji.

For me personally on this subject, I believe that Actions Speak Louder Than Words and that we all have to wait and see what the future brings. For those who have a vested interest on this subject, do protect yourselves as best as possible as much as you feel the need to.

In the most humorous way possible, if anyone feels the need to take away my copy of T20 and Gateway to Destiny, they can pry them out of my cold dead hands .