ice baby ice

[penal battalion]

My players are hold up in an ice bunker with a load of civilains and a couple of troops.
Temp is -35c. they want to build an ice wall to defend themselves from a marauding bunch of piratical slave takers until the cutter braves it through the wind outside.
Main question how good is ice against tech7 weapons?
Any frozen Yanks or Canadians out there with a better idea than me

 

[penal battalion]

My players are hold up in an ice bunker with a load of civilains and a couple of troops.
Temp is -35c. they want to build an ice wall to defend themselves from a marauding bunch of piratical slave takers until the cutter braves it through the wind outside.
Main question how good is ice against tech7 weapons?
Any frozen Yanks or Canadians out there with a better idea than me

 

[Blue Ghost]

Unless you're on a real ice-wrld, and by that I mean a planet with seas of liquid nitrogen (we're talking real cold here) you player's ice isn't going to do a whole lot. On those extremely cold worlds water becomes hard as ice, but we're talking in the minus 100 degrees range and colder. At -35F ice is still pretty brittle.

But it depends on how many layers thick the wall is. I think a chemist would be better able to answer your question. I don't know any hardness formulas off the top of my head.

Just my impressions.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Unless you're on a real ice-wrld, and by that I mean a planet with seas of liquid nitrogen (we're talking real cold here) you player's ice isn't going to do a whole lot. On those extremely cold worlds water becomes hard as ice, but we're talking in the minus 100 degrees range and colder. At -35F ice is still pretty brittle.

But it depends on how many layers thick the wall is. I think a chemist would be better able to answer your question. I don't know any hardness formulas off the top of my head.

Just my impressions.

 

[Malenfant]

I dunno... if it's -35C (-31F) outside, I first gotta wonder - do TL 7 guns work that effectively in those temperatures? (for all I know that's warmer than say, Stalingrad in the winters in WWII)

As for ice walls... I'd guess that if you had sizeable blocks (say, 2' x 1' x 1'?) and packed it hard enough then they'd take a substantial amount of kinetic energy out of a bullet and reduce the damage - depending on how thick and well-packed the ice is. They might be a bit ablative - i.e. your wall might not last long under a hail of fire - but while it's up it'd probably provide SOME kind of cover. And obviously it'd provide visible cover - the enemy wouldn't be able to see through it.

 

[Malenfant]

I dunno... if it's -35C (-31F) outside, I first gotta wonder - do TL 7 guns work that effectively in those temperatures? (for all I know that's warmer than say, Stalingrad in the winters in WWII)

As for ice walls... I'd guess that if you had sizeable blocks (say, 2' x 1' x 1'?) and packed it hard enough then they'd take a substantial amount of kinetic energy out of a bullet and reduce the damage - depending on how thick and well-packed the ice is. They might be a bit ablative - i.e. your wall might not last long under a hail of fire - but while it's up it'd probably provide SOME kind of cover. And obviously it'd provide visible cover - the enemy wouldn't be able to see through it.

 

[penal battalion]

On the planet it can go down to -75c or below(no idea what that is in F)
True many of the weapons are failing and thats why they are holding on for rescue.
At the moment I may go for an ablative armour varient before the bullits can get to them. However I have learnt not to understermate the inginuity and total cowadice of some of my players!I expect some will try and surrender early.
Cheers.

 

[penal battalion]

On the planet it can go down to -75c or below(no idea what that is in F)
True many of the weapons are failing and thats why they are holding on for rescue.
At the moment I may go for an ablative armour varient before the bullits can get to them. However I have learnt not to understermate the inginuity and total cowadice of some of my players!I expect some will try and surrender early.
Cheers.

 

[veltyen]

Lowest recorded temperature on earth was -129F/-90C in the Antartic

Winter in Greenland averages -30/-35, pretty much the conditions you are facing. That's not a whole lot worse then Stalingrad in winter, which averages slighly higher but can spike a lot worse.

So we know that TL5 weapons work OK in those conditions if you take some simple precautions. I would have to assume that anything vacuum rated would also probably be OK. Plasma guns would be unpleasant (lots of superheated steam).

Ice would be better then snow. Ice blocks would be similar to limestone in properties, it will crumble and deteriorate quickly but should stand up to several light hits. Ice that formed under presure would be better, being closer to a granite, but still quite britle. Snow would be similar to dirt, it really depends on how you pack it. There are worse things to hide behind then an earth rampart. While heavier weapons will go through an earthen barricade, most of the lighter fire should be soaked up.

 

[veltyen]

Lowest recorded temperature on earth was -129F/-90C in the Antartic

Winter in Greenland averages -30/-35, pretty much the conditions you are facing. That's not a whole lot worse then Stalingrad in winter, which averages slighly higher but can spike a lot worse.

So we know that TL5 weapons work OK in those conditions if you take some simple precautions. I would have to assume that anything vacuum rated would also probably be OK. Plasma guns would be unpleasant (lots of superheated steam).

Ice would be better then snow. Ice blocks would be similar to limestone in properties, it will crumble and deteriorate quickly but should stand up to several light hits. Ice that formed under presure would be better, being closer to a granite, but still quite britle. Snow would be similar to dirt, it really depends on how you pack it. There are worse things to hide behind then an earth rampart. While heavier weapons will go through an earthen barricade, most of the lighter fire should be soaked up.

 

[penal battalion]

Cheers. The Greenland ave were useful, gives the pc a reference point.There arn't many heavy weapons in this so its down to small arms and judicial use of moral to keep 'em alive.

 

[penal battalion]

Cheers. The Greenland ave were useful, gives the pc a reference point.There arn't many heavy weapons in this so its down to small arms and judicial use of moral to keep 'em alive.

 

[Piper]

A sneaky trick: commercial electronics are typically good down to -25C. Military stuff is usually rated to -55C.
Temperature related failures are usually either failure to start or erratic operation.
Anything rated for use in space would have no problem with the temp, but some lubricants might be starting to get a bit sticky.

 

[Piper]

A sneaky trick: commercial electronics are typically good down to -25C. Military stuff is usually rated to -55C.
Temperature related failures are usually either failure to start or erratic operation.
Anything rated for use in space would have no problem with the temp, but some lubricants might be starting to get a bit sticky.

 

[penal battalion]

That's just cruel and mean, I like it!
I always have more fun pitting non-weapon death options at the players.It also has the advantage of making gun fights even more scary and memorable for them.
Do you know what the wind chill formula is?

 

[penal battalion]

That's just cruel and mean, I like it!
I always have more fun pitting non-weapon death options at the players.It also has the advantage of making gun fights even more scary and memorable for them.
Do you know what the wind chill formula is?

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by penal battalion:
That's just cruel and mean, I like it!
I always have more fun pitting non-weapon death options at the players.It also has the advantage of making gun fights even more scary and memorable for them.
Do you know what the wind chill formula is?

chill calculator in Fahrenheit, and celsius
Wind chill won't have much effect on hardware, though. A radio, let's say in -35C weather will reach a temp of -35 regardless of the wind. If it's running, the wind will carry off the excess heat produced so it will tend to stay at -35.

 

[Piper]

Originally posted by penal battalion:
That's just cruel and mean, I like it!
I always have more fun pitting non-weapon death options at the players.It also has the advantage of making gun fights even more scary and memorable for them.
Do you know what the wind chill formula is?

chill calculator in Fahrenheit, and celsius
Wind chill won't have much effect on hardware, though. A radio, let's say in -35C weather will reach a temp of -35 regardless of the wind. If it's running, the wind will carry off the excess heat produced so it will tend to stay at -35.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
<snip>... On those extremely cold worlds water becomes hard as ice, ...

I meant to say hard as steel...

Then again, if your players are on such a world they've got bigger problems than a few bullets flying their way

In regards to weapons operating at extreme temperatures; our group actually had this debate a couple decades ago when we first started playing. I think it came up in a Snapshot scenario (I can't recall exactly) where the issue was how well a weapon would function in an airless evnironment (inside and outside a spacecraft). The argument focused on extreme environments, and it was our conclusion that a highly advanced society, some 8000 years in the future, would probably be able to manufacture advanced small arms capable of withstanding some of the most extreme environments; vaccum, underwater, extreme subzero (beyond arctic), high PSI (like deep in a Jovian atmosphere).

But even here you need to use some common sense. Example; any weapon with wood as part of its structure is probably not going to last very long on a world like Venus, and there may (or may not) be Gauss Guns rated to go underwater, and those rated for other environments. Meaning a GG sealed or rated for vacuum might not be rated for ocean depths... then again what weapon is?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
<snip>... On those extremely cold worlds water becomes hard as ice, ...

I meant to say hard as steel...

Then again, if your players are on such a world they've got bigger problems than a few bullets flying their way

In regards to weapons operating at extreme temperatures; our group actually had this debate a couple decades ago when we first started playing. I think it came up in a Snapshot scenario (I can't recall exactly) where the issue was how well a weapon would function in an airless evnironment (inside and outside a spacecraft). The argument focused on extreme environments, and it was our conclusion that a highly advanced society, some 8000 years in the future, would probably be able to manufacture advanced small arms capable of withstanding some of the most extreme environments; vaccum, underwater, extreme subzero (beyond arctic), high PSI (like deep in a Jovian atmosphere).

But even here you need to use some common sense. Example; any weapon with wood as part of its structure is probably not going to last very long on a world like Venus, and there may (or may not) be Gauss Guns rated to go underwater, and those rated for other environments. Meaning a GG sealed or rated for vacuum might not be rated for ocean depths... then again what weapon is?