Imagining the Imperial Army with T5

[Reban]

Okay so I've been using T5 to roll up some Soldier characters and at the same time writing some background for characters in "The Imperial Army" its place in Imperial society, how it recruits, how its organized etc based on what I can see in the rules. This has led to the observations below. I want to set them down and see what others have to say. Also note that some of these things apply equally to the Spacer and Marine careers, in other words the Military careers.

Now before we go any further lets lay aside the "there is no Imperial Army in the OTU" argument. While the Soldier career is meant to be generic T5 definitely seems to assume that in the same way the Spacer career represents both Imperial Navy characters and generic Space Navy characters, the Soldier career represents both generic military men and women and members of an Imperial Army. How and where and for what purpose its recruited is beyond the scope of this thread

So lets assume that there is an Imperial Army inferred by the RAW. The following statements can be made about it:

1. There is both a Regular and a Reserve component.

2. You can enlist directly into the Regular Imperial Army.

3. Officers may obtain their Commission on enlistment or via a Military Academy or OTC.

4. Only Officers from the Military Academies or OTCs enter the Reserve
4a. This means there are no enlisted ranks in the Reserve and it is only a Reserve of Officers (and only officers with a Degree)

5. Characters in the Reserves may be called back to the service for at least one term.

6. There are no responsibilities set out in the rules for members of the Reserves but it probably fair to assume a commitment for training annually and notifying whereabouts to the personnel department and other mundane things that don't interfere with the continuing career path.

7. Its probable that service with the Reserve ends when the character Musters Out.

8. Garrison duty is performed by both the Imperial Army and Marines. We know the Imperial Marines garrison Depots and Naval Bases as well as providing Embassy and Starport Guards where needed. So what do the Imperial Army garrison? I put them at Starport Defense Establishments.

9. There are seven Branches in the Imperial Army:
Infantry: Mainly this would cover the Lift Infantry Battalions. There are more infantry than there are other branches.
Artillery: They provide Fires Support to the infantry. Note there are no Battlefield Meson Guns in T5 as the smallest Meson bay weapon is 67tons and the Army don't study bay weapons in ANM school. The Army don't do Ortillery.
Cavalry: This includes Grav Tanks or "Armored" and other lighter vehicle units performing cavalry functions of reconnaissance, security and flank guard. The army uses According to ANM Schools the Army are the exclusive users of ACVs, Moles, Legged LTA Rotor and Flapper vehicles but also use Grav, tracked and wheeled vehicles and ships.
Protected: Protected forces are combat and peacekeeping forces, they don't do occupation. They are a notch above other branches as they are grouped with the commando branch. From other sources we know that protected forces are designed to fight in non Terran like conditions and are equipped accordingly. What I'm wondering is if the Protected Forces branch is where the majority of Battledress units are to be found? Or is this the branch for Jump troops.
Commando: These are the Special Forces and much of what applies to the Protected branch applies to them but of course their mode of warfare will be less conventional.
Technical: Everything else that covers support, signals, logistics, food, supply, combat engineering, etc.
Medical: Covers everything from the front line medic to the rear area nurse.

10. An OTC or Military Academy Honors Graduate is commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant and goes to Flight School where he receives levels in Pilot Skill. Then what? Pilot skill is related to BCS, ACS and Smallcraft but there is no immediate branch where this seems useful although again from ANM Schools on p100 the Army teach Smallcraft knowledge so they must use them.

So thoughts? Note that for the purpose of this exercise I'm trying to ignore GT: Ground Forces but I'm using some of what I know about ground forces stablished in CT.

 

[pendragonman]

Remember, there are orbit capable grav vehicles. Plus, Army personnel for landing craft. Hence pilot skill.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Just as an aside, I actually touched on the Imperial Army in the previous two (maybe three) years. I think the most recent official publications states that one possible duty assignment are manning and guarding planetary defenses.

I'm curious though. Why would the reserve be an Officer's only section? Wouldn't there be high ranking NCOs like master sergeants and what not in there as well?

 

[rancke]

While the Soldier career is meant to be generic T5 definitely seems to assume that in the same way the Spacer career represents both Imperial Navy characters and generic Space Navy characters, the Soldier career represents both generic military men and women and members of an Imperial Army.

While I agree completely that Traveller writers have used the generic rules to generate Imperial military people from the earliest days, that has always seemed to me to be a bug (or rather, a thoughtless mistake) rather than a feature. Anything you deduce from the generic character generation rules logically applies just as much to any other military organization too, not just to the Imperial ones. What I would have appreciated very much would have been a description of how, say, the Imperial services DIFFERED from generic services and rules for how to emulate that. E.g. "The Imperial Army is much bigger than generic armies and have two ranks above O10, Vice-marshal (O11) and Marshal (O12)", "Fleet Admirals are O11, Sector Admirals are O12, Grand Admirals are O13", "Imperial nobles are automatically allowed to enlist in the Imperial services and get a bonus to promotion rolls", "Imperial marines automatically get battle dress skill-1 in their first term".

And, of course, setting modules that included rules for how this and that planetary service differed from the generic rules.


Hans

 

[Reban]

Remember, there are orbit capable grav vehicles. Plus, Army personnel for landing craft. Hence pilot skill.

Okay true enough that an imperial Army will undoubtedly take on minor aspects of the Imperial Navy's roles and interface craft are an excellent example. But it just strikes me as odd that you produce "Pilot Officers" for ground forces described in Traveller as fighting from the planetary surface to low planetary orbit.

In most armies the equivalent roles to the ones you list i.e. driver and landing craft coxswain are roles filled by enlisted, NCOs or Warrent Officers.

Its either just odd or its a special aspect of Imperial Army culture to have 2nd Lieutenants and higher officers pilot smallcraft. Note that the Army don't teach M-Drive, Bay Weapons or Ortillery in ANM so its unlikely that they operate ACS or bigger craft so Pilot Officers are not very glamorous shuttle pilots?

While I agree completely that Traveller writers have used the generic rules to generate Imperial military people from the earliest days, that has always seemed to me to be a bug (or rather, a thoughtless mistake) rather than a feature. Anything you deduce from the generic character generation rules logically applies just as much to any other military organization too, not just to the Imperial ones. What I would have appreciated very much would have been a description of how, say, the Imperial services DIFFERED from generic services and rules for how to emulate that. E.g. "The Imperial Army is much bigger than generic armies and have two ranks above O10, Vice-marshal (O11) and Marshal (O12)", "Fleet Admirals are O11, Sector Admirals are O12, Grand Admirals are O13", "Imperial nobles are automatically allowed to enlist in the Imperial services and get a bonus to promotion rolls", "Imperial marines automatically get battle dress skill-1 in their first term".

And, of course, setting modules that included rules for how this and that planetary service differed from the generic rules.

I agree with you Hans, although as you've just illustrated its relatively easy to flesh out what makes the "Imperial" military services different from the generic ones.

I'd also suggest that in a setting like the OTU its in the interest of both the Imperium and its planets to standardize their military structures in the same way defences alliances like NATO and the WARSAWPACT did on Earth and that what we see in the generic career path is the result of such standardization.

 

[Reban]

Just as an aside, I actually touched on the Imperial Army in the previous two (maybe three) years. I think the most recent official publications states that one possible duty assignment are manning and guarding planetary defenses.

I'm curious though. Why would the reserve be an Officer's only section? Wouldn't there be high ranking NCOs like master sergeants and what not in there as well?

Thats a very good question, and the reason I started this thread was to highlight these oddities.

Okay first up I think Marc had a good idea to include Reserves in the original T5 manuscript but then forgot to expand on them with rules. I submitted the errata that created the rules mechanic that forces character serving in the reserves back into the service if the roll a 2 in continuation.

You're exactly right to put your finger on the importance of retaining NCOs in the reserves and retaining their corporate knowledge. The point I've highlighted here is that until its explained or errata'd: The Imperial Army (or any generic army or marines) does not retain Officers, NCOs or other ranks in the Reserves. Only Officers who are graduates with a degree are retained in the Reserves.

Now you could explain that as "cultural" and tied up with the kind of society the Imperium is but its probably just broken.

One other explanation is that you could use the Soldier career to represent the Reserves as well i.e allow the Reserves to recruit directly and act as an Imperial Militia (of course GT: Ground Forces specifically says the Imperial Army doesn't have reserve forces).

 

[Reban]

Fixing Reserves

If Don is watching, this Reserves issue is easily resolved. This is what I've been doing IMTU.

"Characters who leave any Military career are in the Reserves of that service until they muster out when their reserve pension is calculated. Characters who serve in more than one Military career join the reserve of their last military career. Terms served in the Reserves of different Military careers are added together for pension calculation."



Usually in the real world service with the Reserve is based on the length served in the career or it may be voluntary. This would be a bit too complicated for T5. Ending Reserve service at the same time the character musters out to start adventuring makes sense as it marks the character's cutting of ties to a settled life and removes the threat of a Player Character being recalled to the service.

Of course you may want that threat so instead of leaving the Reserve completely one could say the PC moves from the 1st Line Reserve to the 2nd Line Reserve and no longer has to report for training but is liable for recall in special (Ref driven :devil circumstances.

And for colour IMTU I say that service in the Reserve requires ten to fourteen days per year commitment and the requirement to keep the service informed of ones whereabouts. The time commitment can be broken up as one evening's training or parade a month and a weekend training camp or some other suitable duty.

This type of Reserve is probably an integrated reserve where the Reservist comes into a Regular unit and provides back-up or relief for Regular personnel rather than manning a whole parallel reserve unit. Its possible though that for major mobilizations whole Reserve units might be formed.

One problem I have with Traveller overall is that it assumes an American-centric military setting. There are as many ways of doing military as there are cultures on Earth. But hey that's another argument....

 

[DonM]

Great... now I have to accidentally search for my own name and find items...

:rofl:

 

[Reban]

I just thought you were omniscient :rofl:

 

[Blue Ghost]

Here's the thread I started two years ago;

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=26733

There might be some useful information in there for this thread.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Related Threads that might be worth examining for this topic;

Noble Militaries
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=26737

And

Naval Infantry
http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=26906

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sorry, I didn't mean to stop the thread. I hope people will continue to contribute.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Keeping it real.

Well, I like the OP and it fits my own, but I let Enlisted/Ratings get Fame for Medals and everybody serves in the Reserves for at least 1 Term, probably more if you got special skills.

 

[Reban]

Here's the thread I started two years ago;

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=26733

There might be some useful information in there for this thread.

Thanks Blue Ghost I appreciate the input. I think we're pretty close on what our view of what the Imperial Army is and isn't. I lurked on COTI for a long time before T5 came out and mined every military thread there has been.

And don't worry I have more to contribute based on my OP. Next up branches and Flight School revisited.

@Magnus do you have a rules mechanic to decide how many terms you serve in the Reserves?

 

[Blue Ghost]

Sure, anytime. Just keep in mind the Noble Militaries thread as you codify the actual Imperial Army for T5.

All the best.

 

[Reban]

Branches

Revisiting points 9. and 10. in my OP


T5 changes the Army Branches available compared to CT Mercenary which were Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry, Commando, Marine and Support

The changes are the addition of a Medical Branch and the change of CT's Support to a Technical Branch which I think maps fairly well. CT's Marine becomes Protected.

So what is the Protected Branch and is it different from CT's Marine MOS?

To quote the wiki:

Protected Forces (ProtFors): Army elite units trained to wear Vacc Suits and operate in exotic or toxic environments and Low-Gravity, High-Gravity, or Zero-Gravity conditions. They usually use Gauss weapons rather than energy weapons as standard arms because the projectiles can tear or rip through enemy protective clothing, rendering them vulnerable.

Okay so they are elite units, T5 groups them with Commandos for assignments so that checks.

They wear Vacc suits.... At lower TLs maybe but ArmorMaker gives us a wide variety of armors to choose from that will give greater protection in the listed environments. Likewise GunMaker provides lots of useful weapons zero gravity and low gravity environments.

My question here is should Protected Forces have a branch all of their own under the Soldier career and where do characters that enter this branch end up?

I think its probably useful to imagine that some characters entering this branch end up as Jump Troops, but there is an argument to be made that Jump Troops are just light infantry that arrive on the battlefield in a dramtic fashion not exotic environment specialist.

Protected Forces are elite and have special training for a particular environment. I think this could easily be handled under the other elite specially trained branch: Commando.


Which brings me to the second item on my mind: Flight School.

Honors Graduates from OTC or a Military Academy may go to Flight School from which they graduate with Pilot Skill and one of its three contained Knowledges: BCS, ACS or Smallcraft.

While there may be a requirement for smallcraft pilots in the Army there is an alternate route to obtain this knowledge through ANM School.

There also isn't any natural Branch for an Pilot Officer to slot into like there is in the Navy which has a Flight Branch.

Secondly Traveller assumes that at average stellar TLs the "Army" forms three commands that cover land air and sea; Land Forces Command, COACC, and Nautical Force Command. See the wiki for details.

However the Soldier career in T5 doesn't cater for this. It is possible that joining the Technical Branch would cover both Seafarers and Flyers because both are traditionally "more technical" military specialties.

I'm going to offer this solution to solve both oddities.

In the Army Branch Table on page 90 change Protected to Air/Sea or COACC/WETNAVY. This allows the Soldier career to cover both airmen and sailors. Continuing to use the Commando Operations table reflects the specialist nature of their jobs and the environment they operate in.

Under the Flight School option for OTC and Military Academy graduates either 1). Give the Option to study Flyer Skill or 2). Replace Pilot Skill with Flyer Skill.

I'm giving two options because there might be a place for Army officers with Pilot Skill so I'm not ruling it out. Officers who complete Flight School can be termed Pilot Officers or Flying Officers depending on which skill they choose.

Flying Officers can choose The Air/Sea Branch as a natural home for their skill set but equally other branches may operate Flyer vehicles. On the whole these two small changes make a more rounded Soldier career and emphasizes that you may meet Soldiers of the Air and Soldiers of the Sea more often than you'll run into Soldiers of Zero-G.

Finally if you're familiar with the Marine career branch table you'll know it's identical to the one under Soldier Career. However I'm not proposing the same change. To me it seems that Protected Forces is a more suitable branch for Marines, especially those serving aboard starships where they may often use vacc suits and gauss guns (or snub weapons etc.). Removing it as a branch under Soldier doesn't mean you'll never encounter soldiers in zero or high gravity environments in vacc suits it just means that they will be infantry, cavalry or Commandos first and environmental specialists second.

 

[Reban]

Sure, anytime. Just keep in mind the Noble Militaries thread as you codify the actual Imperial Army for T5.

All the best.

Actually codifying the Imperial Army is something I'm staying away from in this thread. This isn't about how many lift infantry battalions in a division. Its more about what's in the BBB that says "this is what an Imperial Army looks like". Part of that is looking at character creation and career but that's not a reliable way of finding out what the average soldier is like because its biased towards building player characters. but it can paint broad strokes about what you should expect to encounter.

One of the interesting things in this process is finding all the little oddities in the BBB that diverge from generally accepted truths (not canon) about the Imperial Military as a whole.

For example CT and CT Striker had Battlefield Meson Guns which carried on into other versions and I built my Imperial Marine Corps fire support around them in TNE.

But in T5 the smallest Meson gun is a Bay/Main Weapon that is 67tons. Soldiers don't study bay weapons or ortillery in ANM school and Marines don't study bay weapons so the only people operating meson guns in support of ground forces are the Navy.

Actually I've just realized if I flip that around the people manning deep meson sites are probably Navy personnel.

Now a disclaimer, there are always other ways to explain who's doing what job with what skill but I find it really interesting to make these comparisons.

[Edit] Meson Guns are a Main minimum mount. Main weapons use Spines as their governing knowledge not Bay as I said. However only the Navy study Spines in ANM School.

 

[Blue Ghost]

But shore batteries of many nations were manned by army personnel. Wouldn't that hold true for planetary defense batteries?

 

[aramis]

But shore batteries of many nations were manned by army personnel. Wouldn't that hold true for planetary defense batteries?

Maybe, maybe not. If the army career doesn't provide the needed skills, then, not in a rules-prescriptivist approach.

Can you get spinal weapons and bay weapons skills in the army? If not, then no, the Army implied by the rules cannot be the ones manning the deep meson sites.

 

[Reban]

But shore batteries of many nations were manned by army personnel. Wouldn't that hold true for planetary defense batteries?

Yes coastal artillery was and is usually part of the Artillery Corps of a national army (although in some countries such as the USA the coastal artillery achieved a large measure of independence).

In Traveller terms I've assumed that deep meson sites would have been manned by elements of either the Ground Forces Command or COACC. And there's really nothing that says it's otherwise.

The caveat here is that analysis of career paths and skills available to Player Characters may not say anything about how the rest of the universe works but:

In T5 Meson Guns are Main Weapons starting at 200tons and running from 67tons to 600tons. The Knowledge associated with Mains is Spines.

Spines is a Knowledge of Gunner Skill.

Soldiers aren't eligible for the Gunner Skill but can learn some of it's associated Knowledges through ANM school but not Spines.

Thats a long winded way of saying usually Soldiers don't operate Meson Guns.

Now I've had a think about this. On the one hand it may have absolutely no bearing on the setting and maybe never was meant to have. But on the other it makes some sense. The big meson guns can hit ships out at Deep Space ranges. You may have Naval craft out there acting as forward observers. Do you want the navy calling in aiming and ranging data to another service like the army? You may want to simplify the chain of communication. Or are you going to give the Army ships to do forward observing? In close do you want the Army to maintain sensors in orbit and let them shoot into space where the navy are also operating? Is there an increased chance of blue on blue incidents if you have multiple services involved? Is it perhaps easier to let the navy man the defenses that reach beyond orbit?

It doesn't stop the Army from operating Lasers, SAMs and ASATs that cover from ground to orbit. I simply find it intriguing that following the way skills divide out suggests that contrary to what I'd believed without question, there is an alternate which makes a lot of sense.