Imperial Navy Uniforms

[Mithras]

I've decided to create an illustrated handbook of Imperial uniforms; and to do it I'll have to use photos from TV shows/movies etc. But I want it to feel like the 3i.

I've finished the Scouts, and for those I used the uniforms of Stargate: Atlantis which aren't too regimented, look very practical and informal. I could have gone for the Enterprise blue overalls, but I'm saving blue for the Navy ....

http://www.weebly.com/uploads/3/4/3/3/3433372/imperial_interstellar_scout_service.pdf

Currently on the Imperial Navy. Here I've been looking at BSG. Now I've never seen the show, but the heavy dark blue uniforms with trim, gold badges and the nice grey 'ceremonial' versions with sashes quite look the part to me. Fancy, regimented, but also fairly practical. I don't much like the 'made for TV collar rank badges idea copied from ST:NG', but I can't do much about that ...

 

[Dragoner]

Imperial Navy is black uniform with red piping, Marines as well (Marines are part of the Navy), braids are gold or red, metallic. Rank and branch insignia are by collar tabs and epaulets respectively.

here is my impression of a marine officer in dress uniform:

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Gallery/images/10294/1_LieutenantAlbertKodolitz131.jpg

Combat uniforms are much more basic, armor and vacc suits, without much insignia.

Army is dark green dress, camouflage BDU.

 

[aramis]

We have good, canonical descriptions of IISS uniforms, and a color illo. SGA's aren't really that close.

http://www.travellerbibliography.org/gdw-mt/RefCompanion.html shows the best view of it in color; DGP's World Tamer's Handbook describes in great detail, proving the cover or RefComp to be scouts. Those awkward cuffs and collar are for use of the uniform as a vacc suit... something unlike almost any TV/movie uniform.

 

[Mithras]

We have good, canonical descriptions of IISS uniforms, and a color illo. SGA's aren't really that close.

Oh definately, purely MTU!

 

[Peter Newman]

And let's not forget that the Third Imperium inherits traditions from the Terran Confederation through its claim to be the successor to the the RoM and through the Sylean Federation (which in turn inherits from the RoM too). Anywhere along the line the rank insignia may have been changed, of course. But there would be nothing strange about the ring system having been passed down to one or more of the Imperial services (Not all, as we know the Marines don't use it).
Hans

And the Terran Confederation is the successor to the United Nations [per AM6 Solomani pg. 5]. Therefore maybe Imperial uniforms are an outgrowth of UN Peacekeeping forces uniforms? The Scout uniform from MT is a light blue color that's fairly similar to the UN light blue helmet color.

IMTU the Solomani changed their uniforms sometime following Margaret's decree of reintegration in 940 and the beginning of the 'War of Solomani Liberty' in 990. Therefore the Imperium did not have to change their uniforms during the war, because the enemy had already changed theirs.

Of couse even if the Solomani didn't change their uniforms the Solomani don't have Scouts so they would not have had to change their uniforms even if the other services did. You could argue that some of the other Imperial military services were also in light blue outfits before the war but only the Scouts kept them, while the other services all changed their uniforms to avoid confusion with the enemy.

 

[aramis]

We also have a description in TD (issue 15 IIRC) showing marine dress uniform... Take USMC dress blues, replace the blue trousers with maroon, and the white hat with maroon.

The Crow, Fishhook and Tennis-ball* is replaced with a Cutlass and Starburst.

Two enlisted rank systems are described as prevalent:
Chevrons, inherited from Terra
dots on a square insignia

I can't get to it to check the exact pattern.

Officers use 1-3 small starbursts (O1-O3), 1-3 large starbursts (O4-O6), 1-5 stars (O7-O11)

*Eagle Globe and Anchor

 

[Shonner]

I voted red since the Vilani recently switched to maroon.

 

[Traveller]

This is strictly my Traveller universe interpretation...but I went for gray.

Pictured: A Rank 4 Uniform
​

It's a bit of a hack job (especially the illustration), but I have always been a fan of the uniforms from Star Trek II-VI, so I went and used that uniform as a template for the Imperial officer uniform. The main difference is color, and the fact that the uniforms are gender neutral (i.e. no male and female uniforms). I also attempted to employ a consistent look across each service, since these are Imperial troops and they need to have a distinctive uniform to distinguish them from planetary forces. The Scouts are the exception, in that the uniform is a dress uniform for them rather than a duty uniform.

As for the Merchants, IMTU they are part of the military.

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The Imperial Forces officer uniform provides a consistent look throughout the Imperium. The turtleneck worn beneath the duty jacket is black in color and may be worn without the duty jacket while the officer is off duty. The duty jacket is gray in color, with a black stripe running down one side where the duty jacket closes in the front. A gold Imperial Starburst is worn on the breast. The waistline is accented by a wide, black belt with a simple gold buckle. The uniform is finished off with black pants and boots.

Rank is noted on the sleeves using gold stripes in the following pattern:

Rank 1: no stripes
Rank 2: one 2.54cm stripe
Rank 3: One 2.54cm stripe, one 1.27cm stripe
Rank 4: two 2.54cm stripes
Rank 5: two 2.54cm stripes, one 1.27cm stripe
Rank 6: one 5.08cm stripe*
*The Merchant Service has no rank 6.

On each sleeve above the rank stripes is a 2.54cm stripe in the color of the officer's service branch.

Navy = Yellow
Army = Black
Marines = Maroon
Scouts = Red
Merchants = Green (non-canon)

The stripe on each pant leg follows the color scheme of the stripes on the sleeves.

Scouts:

Members of the Scout Service generally wear the Imperial officer uniform as a dress uniform. Most of the time they wear outfits that are better suited to the Scout Service's exploratory nature. When wearing the officer uniform, to more easily distinguish between a Scout and a Rank 1 officer of another service, the Scout uniform has the logo of the Service attached to each sleeve where the rank stripes normally would be placed.

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If using expanded character generation there are additional ranks besides the six given in the basic Traveller rules. These added ranks are shown below.

Army, Marines, Navy, Scouts (Books 4-6)*:
O1: Rank 1
O2: one 1.27cm stripe
O3: Rank 2
O4: Rank 3
O5: Rank 4
O6: Rank 5
O7: one 5.08cm stripe
O8: one 5.08cm stripe, one 2.54cm stripe
O9: two 5.08cm stripes
O10: two 5.08cm stripes, one 2.54cm stripe
*Scout characters generated using Book 6 do not have rank O10.

Merchants (Book 7):
O0: Rank 1
O1: Rank 1
O2: Rank 2
O3: Rank 3
O4: Rank 4
O5: Rank 5
O6: one 5.08cm stripe
O7: one 5.08cm stripe, one 2.54cm stripe

Enlisted persons for all services wear a simple gray jumpsuit with a single 2.54cm stripe in the color of the enlisted person's service branch. Ranks are noted by a series of diagonal slashes 5.08cm long and 7mm wide located above the service branch stripe. E-1 ratings will have one slash while E-9 ratings will have nine.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Didn't magmagmag do the same thing with the TOS-movie era uniforms? I'd think something a bit more utilitarian with a hint of classic imperial earth circa 1900s would work.

 

[Traveller]

I wouldn't know Blue Ghost. I do know that while I thought Star Trek: The Motion Picture was the best of the movies due to staying closest to Roddenberry's vision, the pajamas were just not going to cut it for a uniform. Star Trek is supposed to be about exploration and the majority of the uniforms through 40 years worth of programs reflect that trend. The Star Trek II-VI uniforms are the exception.

 

[Shonner]

I've worked with the US Navy for only 18 years and I've seen their uniforms change maybe 5 times during that period. And that is just the Navy branch of the military.

 

[aramis]

I've worked with the US Navy for only 18 years and I've seen their uniforms change maybe 5 times during that period. And that is just the Navy branch of the military.

Army's had 3 major changes in that time for field, only two for dress (one being switch from flat caps to berets; the other the recent move to blue dress as class A, rather than green class A and blue/white mess dress....

The Air Force announced several... but I never saw the blazer with silver cuff stripes on a flyboy.

On "genderless" uniforms:
unless looking for stretch fabrics or baggy looks, females and males will have gender-distinct garment patterns. The shape of women is different, and the proportions as well. Just enough so that patterns in standard sizes are scaled differently. Generally, most women want their uniforms to fit well, and so do many men. Good fit reduces chafing and improves mobility, as well as looking better.

for the OTU and variants: You'll have at least 2 versions for humans, 3 if you don't require women to avoid pregnancy on duty.

Another for Vargr, again with maternity if allowed; the sexual dimorphism is less, but might be sufficient to justfy a different cut female uniform for breast comfort. Another two for Aslan, male and female, and probably a maternity uniform. One for Newts. IIRC, Vegans lack obvious sexual dimorphism, so another there. Virush have little gender based proportionality difference. Eiboken probably won't be an issue - they'd need to be in environmental suits anyway. Dandies are not widespread enough, but one would do. But it won't be much like the others, since their bodyplan is five-fold upright radial.

And we haven't even gotten to the various human minors, like the high-G'ers and low-G'ers, who will have different uniform patterns due to different fitting needs.

Or, alternatively, you specify vaguely, and allow local adaptations for the local species' and subspecies' morphologies... rather than actually specifying a specific pattern. This was, in fact, typical of late 18th and 19th C armies. (Same time frame, Navies generally specified officer's uniforms only... and often no distinction between dress and duty uniforms.)

 

[Shonner]

The Nazis had a couple changes in their uniform for the SS (when Hitler came into power and then again when the war started). Though this was more for dress. The Romans had changes, too. More likely as armor/shield tech was improved.

Let's say one is looking at the era of Traveller from 1105 to 1119. How many uniform changes (on how many worlds?!) will be made? And the time it takes to get that new information out about uniform changes to other worlds (or maybe just a sector Archduke need know who can pass it on, but even still... it'll take awhile) and whether or not there is a war going on in a subsector, blah blah.

Or maybe wars increase the number of uniform changes/improvements as they are put to use more than during peace time?

The US Navy from 1780 to 1793 saw a lot of uniform changes. Slacks were making an appearance. Just the pockets on them (if there were any) were evolving. Then you got the hats. Maybe some captains didn't want to be a target on their own ships during battle?

 

[Blue Ghost]

I wouldn't know Blue Ghost. I do know that while I thought Star Trek: The Motion Picture was the best of the movies due to staying closest to Roddenberry's vision, the pajamas were just not going to cut it for a uniform. Star Trek is supposed to be about exploration and the majority of the uniforms through 40 years worth of programs reflect that trend. The Star Trek II-VI uniforms are the exception.

He actually did, I think. And used the Imperial uniforms from Star Wars for the army. I told him it was pretty unoriginal, and he would be better served starting from scratch.

Every uniform I've ever seen rendered for a Traveller publication has a pretty basic motif; part jumpsuit, part military jacket, or standard trousers.

 

[Mithras]

Perhaps each domain has its own uniform to mitigate the time lag effect. Generally ranks, decorations and branch colour schemes will stay the same empire wide, but domain forces get to have their own uniform codes using those elements.

Let's say one is looking at the era of Traveller from 1105 to 1119. How many uniform changes (on how many worlds?!) will be made? And the time it takes to get that new information out about uniform changes to other worlds (or maybe just a sector Archduke need know who can pass it on, but even still... it'll take awhile) and whether or not there is a war going on in a subsector, blah blah.

 

[Traveller]

A few brief things.

Re: Originality

Blue Ghost, I know the design wasn't original. I just like it and adopted it based upon my preferences, thus the comment about the whole thing being a hack job. I didn't bother to read through the first 16 pages of the poll so I'm not aware of what other people have created or adopted. Maybe I should have, but I've also done a partial port of Star Trek to Traveller, so I freely admit to being biased.

Re: Genderless Uniforms

Aramis, what I meant by "genderless" was the avoidance of skirts for females. Something which I could have made more clear. Star Trek, specifically the original series, had this thing about skirts that didn't get hosed until somewhere in the third or fourth season of The Next Generation. Gene Roddenberry had the thought in his head that by the 23rd Century gender bias in uniforms would be gone. However executive interference dictated that the women in Star Trek wear short skirts. For The Next Generation, to play on Classic Trek's executive interference, the decision was made to not only have the standard duty uniform with pants, but an alternate standard duty uniform, which was essentially a dress. The clincher? Men could wear the dress.

Unlike Star Trek and The Next Generation, for a duty uniform I don't find skirts/dresses to be practical. While it would be more practical for a dress uniform, this is a duty uniform. However IMTU even the dress uniform wouldn't have a skirt in sight. I personally feel that by the 57th Century humaniti might actually be advanced enough to realize that skirts/dresses as a uniform are highly impractical.

Tailoring for aliens is a completely different subject and does not fall under the discussion of genderless uniforms, since we're now talking different races. That discussion would be on "racially neutral" uniforms, which we both agree is impossible. The subject of tailoring for aliens however is not something I touched on because I assumed that alterations for various races would be a given. Perhaps I should have been more clear on that.

Re: Color

Imperial military uniforms are still gray, regardless of the design.

 

[aramis]

Traveller, I personally find a kilt more comfortable than trousers, and Many cultures have males in similar unbifurcated garments. I'd expect unbifurcated garments, especially in an interstellar poly-cultural empire, to be pretty much a genderless option. and I assure you: aside from certain issues of decency, there is little that can be done in trousers that can't also be done in a kilt/skirt/knee-length tunic. And they tend to be warmer in winter and cooler in summer.

Oh, and the "skirts" in TNG... we see a vulcan male in one in a couple walk-on shots in seasons 1 & 2...

 

[Shonner]

I personally feel that by the 57th Century humaniti might actually be advanced enough to realize that skirts/dresses as a uniform are highly impractical.

I don't think fashion sense or practicality will be born into humans even that far into the future. It would still have to be learned by each person over time. But citizens would be more occupied with conforming to the political/social/educational system they're brought up in. Or maybe the system beats fashion sense into them at an early age as their first lesson in life?

Or maybe humaniti will be advanced enough to supremely control gender issues entirely? So as not to allow for girls wanting to be girly and men from wanting to be manly. Everyone will wear the same outfit. And men/women look nearly the same in the military because they are bread for one purpose.

I just don't see humans going around saying how they are so advanced and how they loathe skirts in the future. Their aversion would have to originate from some cultural programming and/or background of their's. And there is nothing all that advanced about acting like that.

 

[Traveller]

@Aramis: We will simply have to agree to disagree about the practicality of skirts, because at this point we've hit the wall of personal opinion on this one.

@Shonner: I tend to let Frank Herbert's Dune guide me in regards to the look and feel of the Imperium, since both universes share the basic similarity of a wide-ranging empire where control is maintained through use of feudalism. I just changed up the uniforms to something I like.

I believe hereditary nobles are the ones who will most likely value form over function. Over many generations they have become accustomed to looking fashionable in impractical outfits. Military men on the other hand are the ones to most likely value function over form. Most members of the Imperial military aren't likely to be hereditary nobles but instead created nobles (granted patents of nobility by the Emperor). In any event, humaniti in the 57th Century is going to be advanced enough to control gender issues. While I don't think military women are going to be bred to look like men, they are going to be conditioned to think and act like men, because they are bred to serve the Imperium. In that regard they are much like Dune's Sardukar, bred to serve. What they aren't is nearly invulnerable.

 

[Shonner]

Now I'm thinking of the army and outfits shown in SOLDIER. And their training/breeding program.