Imperial Twins?
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How many fertalized eggs could have come from the mother and saved in cryogenic hybernation? Hundreds?
The same for Lucan?
The same for Lucan?
I prefer to think of them as the 10-11 month separation, but Fraternal twins, simultaneous conception of separate ova, is simpler. Sadly, the MT emperor's list does not typically reference non-reigning siblings.
Typically, first one out is the "elder", not first one conceived, in most primogeneture systems... as first conceived is MUCH harder to date. I like to think Paulo is 5 minutes later a birth...
If one revises, it, add days to the DOB.... and settle the issue.
Typically, first one out is the "elder", not first one conceived, in most primogeneture systems... as first conceived is MUCH harder to date. I like to think Paulo is 5 minutes later a birth...
If one revises, it, add days to the DOB.... and settle the issue.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Hello! TWINS!
Our first time at bat (the missus and I) was a fraternal blessing of twins on 28 October 1988. My daughter (and were-Gandalf gamer) is the eldest by 2 minutes, her brother followed. Delivery by C-section due to premature birth (they were 6 months old to the day on arrival).
Second note. the gene for twins transmits through the female line. Antiama might have been the daughter to a twin as its rare for twins in each generation--more often it skips one.
A Fascinating topic gentleman!
My vote goes for the twins thing!
Our first time at bat (the missus and I) was a fraternal blessing of twins on 28 October 1988. My daughter (and were-Gandalf gamer) is the eldest by 2 minutes, her brother followed. Delivery by C-section due to premature birth (they were 6 months old to the day on arrival).
Second note. the gene for twins transmits through the female line. Antiama might have been the daughter to a twin as its rare for twins in each generation--more often it skips one.
A Fascinating topic gentleman!
My vote goes for the twins thing!
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Do keep in mind that only the predisposition for fraternal twins is inheritable. (Or at least believed to be inheritable.)
Identical twins, on the other hand, are completely random. They are a true genetic crapshoot.
At least that's what we were told and we read when we rolled boxcars (or snake eyes, or whatever).
I personnly like the twins theory, but it would also be possible in in vitro fertilisation. If there is no reference as to the place of birth, it would be possible that the fertilization of eggs was accomplished on different worlds, at different times but within the year, the reason being to ensure there was an heir in process in case of any misfortune (like a still birth, equipment breakdown, etc.) 
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Daryen! Good to hear from yu!
So identical tins is the genetic crapshoot and Fraternal's are inheritable. Coolness! Congrats on your set!
Back on topic--
barring an OTU typo..
The theory that works best for each GM's TU in this historical legacy of the line of Emperor's/ Empresses of the 3rd Imperium could take either the inheritable gene path,
or the two birds in basket exvitro as his excellency Marquis Cooper points out. After all, high-tech geneering such things as gender predisposition is a snap (as my Dr/Academic /Professional players tell me).
Just to stir things up a bit..
WHAT if:
The individuals Margaret & Paulo I are one and the same?
What if the Imperial heir changed her gender and the Imperial Historians rather than scandalously reporting same, merely "added" the male personae as her brother?
I could see someone researching Imperial line history suddenly running into a lot of closed files and stonewalls. [For those of you with campaign adventures of a non-violent nature mostly].
Not to mention, possibly drawing all sorts of the wrong attention from the highest levels of the Imperial government..
:devil:
--the premise of this is a relatively easy one: Historical revisionism. Look at the USSR after Stalin--they rewrote the era for schoolbooks in the Khruschev era. Then again, in the Brezhnev era. It maybe that in justifying who was legit in the early rebellion [1116-1120] some "revision" might have occurred.
Personally, whichever works smoothest for you is the right way to go.
have a great day!
Slainte!
So identical tins is the genetic crapshoot and Fraternal's are inheritable. Coolness! Congrats on your set!
Back on topic--
barring an OTU typo..
The theory that works best for each GM's TU in this historical legacy of the line of Emperor's/ Empresses of the 3rd Imperium could take either the inheritable gene path,
or the two birds in basket exvitro as his excellency Marquis Cooper points out. After all, high-tech geneering such things as gender predisposition is a snap (as my Dr/Academic /Professional players tell me).
Just to stir things up a bit..
WHAT if:
The individuals Margaret & Paulo I are one and the same?
What if the Imperial heir changed her gender and the Imperial Historians rather than scandalously reporting same, merely "added" the male personae as her brother?
I could see someone researching Imperial line history suddenly running into a lot of closed files and stonewalls. [For those of you with campaign adventures of a non-violent nature mostly].
Not to mention, possibly drawing all sorts of the wrong attention from the highest levels of the Imperial government..
:devil:
--the premise of this is a relatively easy one: Historical revisionism. Look at the USSR after Stalin--they rewrote the era for schoolbooks in the Khruschev era. Then again, in the Brezhnev era. It maybe that in justifying who was legit in the early rebellion [1116-1120] some "revision" might have occurred.
Personally, whichever works smoothest for you is the right way to go.
have a great day!
Slainte!
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Hello back, Liam.
While my line above has been to stick with the simpler answer, I would like to revise that position.
My line is now, stick with the simpler answer when the more complex answer doesn't add anything to the story.
So, trying to say that they were separate births that managed to coincide on a single calender year, doesn't (IMO) add anything to the story.
Using invitro ideas could add things to the story, as it would help stress the fact that this is the future with advance technology.
However, I love Liam's idea! It is twisted and dark (I expect nothing less from Liam
), and could add a whole bunch to the story. Particularly adventure opportunities for those who find the secret either back in that time period, or even find it later.
The only thing is that part of the story has to explain where Paulo's children came from, as they couldn't be created the "natural" way. Not to say this is a problem; it would just have to be addressed.
While my line above has been to stick with the simpler answer, I would like to revise that position.
My line is now, stick with the simpler answer when the more complex answer doesn't add anything to the story.
So, trying to say that they were separate births that managed to coincide on a single calender year, doesn't (IMO) add anything to the story.
Using invitro ideas could add things to the story, as it would help stress the fact that this is the future with advance technology.
However, I love Liam's idea! It is twisted and dark (I expect nothing less from Liam
The only thing is that part of the story has to explain where Paulo's children came from, as they couldn't be created the "natural" way. Not to say this is a problem; it would just have to be addressed.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Paulo's children could be "true" sons and daughters , a perfectly natural method of propogation for nobles of the Third Imperium.
It could even have been Paulo/Margaret who started the fashion
, a perfectly natural method of propogation for nobles of the Third Imperium.It could even have been Paulo/Margaret who started the fashion
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
/Me bows to citizen Daryen. Thank you sir for the welcome home!
Agree that the idea that advances Sci Fi future tech is good way to lean.
Am humbled you like my "version" idea. LoL. Am very much pleased! bows.
My lady wife adds the idea did their Father have more than one wife?
Answer: officially-no.
However, That opens up the rightside of the bedsheets question.
On topic, and in addendum to previous post--what if, their Mother had problems of carrying to full term? Then, rather than gamble the single heir, two zygotes were fertilized, and carried exvitro, or even by host-mothers?
twists ideas into pretzels as he goes
Slainte!
Agree that the idea that advances Sci Fi future tech is good way to lean.
Am humbled you like my "version" idea. LoL. Am very much pleased! bows.
My lady wife adds the idea did their Father have more than one wife?
Answer: officially-no.
However, That opens up the rightside of the bedsheets question.
On topic, and in addendum to previous post--what if, their Mother had problems of carrying to full term? Then, rather than gamble the single heir, two zygotes were fertilized, and carried exvitro, or even by host-mothers?
twists ideas into pretzels as he goes
Slainte!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
-------------------------------------------------Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Paulo's children could be "true" sons and daughters
It could even have been Paulo/Margaret who started the fashion
BINGO, your excellency! And that also ushers in the hi-tech med future we already have seen in canon! Me likes this idea too!
And to quote Henry V/ ken Branagh--"others are slaves to fashion, Kate, we are its masters".
mad13142000
SOC-13
And there is historical examples from Earth's past...Wasn't one of the Pharohs of Egypt a woman who had taken male persona?
Yes, sorry Mark, but this idea is sooo much cooler than twins or same year births... It doesn't really matter if she really had the snip/tuck or not, just that Paulo is fictional...Her middle name wasn't paula, was it...
Good show as always Liam...
-MADDog
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
Twins has been done. Children of Dune. Star Wars' "Jedi Twins". What is the motivation behind this? It seems slightly corny.
daryen
SOC-14 1K
I don't think the intent is to "add twins". I think the intent is simply that Margaret and Paulo are recorded as being born in the same year, yet never explicitly defined as twins.
I think they are just trying to explain an old, odd piece of canon, not add something new, per se.
However, I have to say I really like Liam's idea. It is different, it works, and it is interesting.
I think they are just trying to explain an old, odd piece of canon, not add something new, per se.
However, I have to say I really like Liam's idea. It is different, it works, and it is interesting.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
/me bows
You honor me sirs.to daryen, to MADDOG Twas merely thinking aloud again with keyboard nearby..
You honor me sirs.to daryen, to MADDOG Twas merely thinking aloud again with keyboard nearby..
The Hinterworlds Rambler
SOC-14 5K
I like it, too. It's way better than just straight on twins. It would be neat to get something like that down. I am always fascinated by the "deviances"* of Royal Families thru history. Beyond Cleon the Mad, are there other canonical works that illustrate any other things like that? You'll pardon, Lords, I may have been reading too much I, Claudius again. I would posit that the effort made to keep the bloodline "pure" (if that was important to some branches of the Imperial Family) would exclude things like genetic engineering. Hemophilia as a badge of honor?
* = not to say that Twins are deviants, as long as you fund out which one is the Evil one. Its usually the one with a moustache, which can be a difficult if its a woman we speak of.
* = not to say that Twins are deviants, as long as you fund out which one is the Evil one. Its usually the one with a moustache, which can be a difficult if its a woman we speak of.
Maladominus
SOC-14 1K
Quick question.
Does the Imperial crown stick to primogeniture laws of inheritance?
I'm guessing NOT... since there have been many Empresses that ascended to the throne. But did they become empresses *by* inheritance, or did they become Empress because of other odd reasons?
Does the Imperial crown stick to primogeniture laws of inheritance?
I'm guessing NOT... since there have been many Empresses that ascended to the throne. But did they become empresses *by* inheritance, or did they become Empress because of other odd reasons?
There were too many for "other odd reasons" to apply. Besides, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the OTU to suggest that inheritance discriminates between genders at the Imperial level. (Individual worlds, cultures, species and families vary, of course).
Of course, some Empresses became Empress by taking their battlefleets and seizing Capital... Arbellatra comes to mind.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Arbellatra was smarter than that - she declared herself *Regent*, until a rightful heir could be found. This stabilised things, ending the Civil War, and the Moot decided to give her the throne.
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