Imperial Type-S variants

[Hemdian]

(Cross-posted from FB.)

I’ve been thinking for a while about the ubiquitous Imperial Type-S Scout/Courier. About why it is so uniform across the Imperium, over many generations. Yet at the same time, there are differences between editions of Traveller that go beyond those explained by the changes in the rules … different external look (despite always being a wedge), different deck plans, even different class names when given.

A hypothesis: The Type-S designation is a broad requirement specification only, and the different implementations are actually different classes that meet those requirements at different TLs:

• TL 9 … the Suleiman class … from GDW Supplement 7 (Traders & Gunboats) … the one with the stinky life support flaw.
  
• TL 10 … [unnamed] class … from Judges Guild Starships and Spacecraft.
  
• TL 11 … [unnamed] class … from QLI Deck Plans 1 (Scout Courier).
  
• TL 12 … Murphy class … from FFE T5 Core Book 2 (Starships).
  
• TL 13 … Suleiman II … from SJGames GURPS Traveller Core Book … okay, a little retcon-ing of the flavor text to get the class name. But, whatever.
  
• TL 14 … [unnamed] class … from Mongoose Traveller Main Rulebook.
  
• TL 15 … [unnamed] class … from GDW Imperial Encyclopedia … I think I want to call it the Suleiman III class.

(No, I haven’t forgotten the TL 11 Serpent class, the TL 14 Ninz class, or any of the other ‘alien’ variants.)

 

[whulorigan]

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I’ve been thinking for a while about the ubiquitous Imperial Type-S Scout/Courier. About why it is so uniform across the Imperium, over many generations. Yet at the same time, there are differences between editions of Traveller that go beyond those explained by the changes in the rules … different external look (despite always being a wedge), different deck plans, even different class names when given.

[/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=arial,helvetica][FONT=arial,helvetica]A hypothesis: The Type-S designation is a broad requirement specification only, and the different implementations are actually different classes that meet those requirements at different TLs.[/FONT]

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[FONT=arial,helvetica]That has always been my take on it. "Type" is different from "Class". Type is a broad designation of defining parameters, of which multiple classes are examples (e.g. Serpent-class versus Murphy-class: both are Type-S).[/FONT]
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• TL 9 … the Suleiman class … from GDW Supplement 7 (Traders & Gunboats) … the one with the stinky life support flaw.
• TL 10 … [unnamed] class … from Judges Guild Starships and Spacecraft.
• TL 11 … [unnamed] class … from QLI Deck Plans 1 (Scout Courier).
• TL 12 … Murphy class … from FFE T5 Core Book 2 (Starships).
• TL 13 … Suleiman II … from SJGames GURPS Traveller Core Book … okay, a little retcon-ing of the flavor text to get the class name. But, whatever.
• TL 14 … [unnamed] class … from Mongoose Traveller Main Rulebook.
• TL 15 … [unnamed] class … from GDW Imperial Encyclopedia … I think I want to call it the Suleiman III class.

The only issue above would be the TL9 and TL10 variants: One of the parameters of Type-S is J-2 performance, which does not exist as "Standard tech" prior to TL11. One could always argue that a TL9 or TL10 vessel is using a prototype or early drive, or that it has a higher TL drive installed in a lower TL hull, but that would seem to be unwarranted for a vessel with the mission parameters of a Type-S (which should be reasonably self-sufficient and/or easy to repair in the field).

 

[Maksim-Smelchak]

(Cross-posted from FB.)

I’ve been thinking for a while about the ubiquitous Imperial Type-S Scout/Courier. About why it is so uniform across the Imperium, over many generations. Yet at the same time, there are differences between editions of Traveller that go beyond those explained by the changes in the rules … different external look (despite always being a wedge), different deck plans, even different class names when given.

It actually isn't so uniform. There are a lot of differences between the various craft.

When the wiki comes back, I'll put together a Type S bar documenting all of the variants.

A hypothesis: The Type-S designation is a broad requirement specification only, and the different implementations are actually different classes that meet those requirements at different TLs:

All the type names are broad classes, but have become so associated with certain type members that their names have become strongly associated with only one out of many members of a class.

That understanding is broadly stated across 40 years and 2,000 publications, but rarely well spelled out.

Shalom,
M.

 

[Hemdian]

That has always been my take on it. "Type" is different from "Class". Type is a broad designation of defining parameters, of which multiple classes are examples (e.g. Serpent-class versus Murphy-class: both are Type-S).

I *knew* the Serpent class was different from the Murphy class. But until now, I had assumed all the wedge-shaped Type-Ss were the same class ... that the differences were only because of the different rules. (But maybe that was just me.)

The only issue above would be the TL9 and TL10 variants: One of the parameters of Type-S is J-2 performance, which does not exist as "Standard tech" prior to TL11.

Ah, missed that. It's described as TL 9 in the High Guard stats at the back of Supplement 7.

 

[Hemdian]

When the wiki comes back, I'll put together a Type S bar documenting all of the variants.

Okay, that could be handy.

 

[atpollard]

Ah, missed that. It's described as TL 9 in the High Guard stats at the back of Supplement 7.

Check out the LBB 2 rules for building a J2 ship using a Drive-A in a 100 dTon Hull. What are the restrictions that prevent J-2?

 

[Vargr Breath]

Hi
How about the Scout ship in the Snapshot game ? TL9 also ?

 

[Condottiere]

Smallest possible jump drive in the smallest available hull.

Of course, once you open up engineering in High Guard, with the smallest permittable drive being a tonne, you can now interstallarize your modular cutter.

I think that the Captain's Gig was about as small as you could viably shrink this, though jump factor three is not an inconsiderable range, though certainly rather claustrophobic.

That is why I assume jump drive then received a hard default minimum size of ten tonnes to prevent this sorts of shenanigans, corresponding with a minimum hull volume of a hundred tonnes for stabilized transitions.

It would seem unlikely that the modern Scout Service would bother with the legacy underperforming Type S Scout Courier, and the only reason these might still be around would be more due to the availability of commercial Jump Drive A alphabet drives, and that they would be more akin to civilian HMMVs.

 

[Dulinor]

(Cross-posted from FB.)
(No, I haven’t forgotten the TL 11 Serpent class

Wasn't it labelled Type-S?

 

[robject]

Wasn't [the Serpent] labelled Type-S?

Yep, clearly a highly-desired Scout vessel, used in the same contexts that the Suleiman (and Murphy) and the JG variant are.

As noted, "Type S" isn't a make and model, but rather more like a statement of purpose. Just like the Vargr, Aslan, and Droyne Scout ships, there are many different ship designs which can fulfill the "Type S" purpose.

 

[Diveguy]

(Cross-posted from FB.)

I’ve been thinking for a while about the ubiquitous Imperial Type-S Scout/Courier. About why it is so uniform across the Imperium, over many generations. Yet at the same time, there are differences between editions of Traveller that go beyond those explained by the changes in the rules … different external look (despite always being a wedge), different deck plans, even different class names when given.

A hypothesis: The Type-S designation is a broad requirement specification only, and the different implementations are actually different classes that meet those requirements at different TLs:

• TL 9 … the Suleiman class … from GDW Supplement 7 (Traders & Gunboats) … the one with the stinky life support flaw.
  
• TL 10 … [unnamed] class … from Judges Guild Starships and Spacecraft.
  
• TL 11 … [unnamed] class … from QLI Deck Plans 1 (Scout Courier).
  
• TL 12 … Murphy class … from FFE T5 Core Book 2 (Starships).
  
• TL 13 … Suleiman II … from SJGames GURPS Traveller Core Book … okay, a little retcon-ing of the flavor text to get the class name. But, whatever.
  
• TL 14 … [unnamed] class … from Mongoose Traveller Main Rulebook.
  
• TL 15 … [unnamed] class … from GDW Imperial Encyclopedia … I think I want to call it the Suleiman III class.

(No, I haven’t forgotten the TL 11 Serpent class, the TL 14 Ninz class, or any of the other ‘alien’ variants.)

My relative concept is similar to what others have said - "Type S" is simply a statement of the primary function. Much like the US Navy uses designations for their vessels - "CVN" being a nuclear powered aircraft carrier; but we have numerous classes as examples all under this type.

 

[GypsyComet]

I tend to take some context from the products a variation appeared in.

The Serpent is a variation designed behind the Claw that was used extensively for exploration further spinward and persists with many of the Beyond and Vanguard polities in the 1100s.

The Intrepid (Snapshot's version) is an old design that is widespread, but not as common as the Sulieman.

The Judges Guild version (also common in GDW art until the Sulieman appeared in Traders & Gunboats) is also an older design, surviving primarily in the trailing segments of Charted Space, including Gateway and Glimmerdrift.

Similarly, the T20 version is the standard design used by the IISS in Ley and Fornast during the Solomani Rim War period.

The Sulieman is the current IISS standard, engineered to be produced and serviced by just about any A-class starport that wants an IISS procurement contract.

The whatever-that-is seen dimly in the T4 art is, in my opinion, a specialized version of the Type S that was either inherited from one of the little states the Syleans absorbed or designed by the Syleans, optimised for water landings, and still occasionally built in the modern Imperium (though mostly in Core and Fornast) the same way some people still drive old VW Beetles. I call it the Senator class Type S, and no, the deckplan is not as published.

The TNE version of the Scout is a post-Virus product of the RC.

The slab-sided Scout that appeared on the cover of Traveller's Digest #14 is another local variation.

And so on.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yep, clearly a highly-desired Scout vessel, used in the same contexts that the Suleiman (and Murphy) and the JG variant are.

As noted, "Type S" isn't a make and model, but rather more like a statement of purpose. Just like the Vargr, Aslan, and Droyne Scout ships, there are many different ship designs which can fulfill the "Type S" purpose.

Except that I seem to recall the two Droyne scout designs are radically different, and not the same class as per the Imperial type-S.

 

[GypsyComet]

Except that I seem to recall the two Droyne scout designs are radically different, and not the same class as per the Imperial type-S.

Every Droyne world does its own thing to a large extent, so it is not surprising that each would have its own designs

 

[Grav_Moped]

Back in the 80s, I drew up a Type S as a tailsitter prolate spheroid*. Still have the deck plans around somewhere, but this forum doesn't seem to allow attaching images and I don't have an image hosting site account.


*in the ref's ATU, streamlined ships were 2:1 long/short axis prolate spheroids, unstreamlined ships were spheres, and smallcraft were typically 2:1 oblate spheroids. All ships were tailsitters, smallcraft weren't. H. Beam Piper was a strong influence...

 

[Blue Ghost]

Every Droyne world does its own thing to a large extent, so it is not surprising that each would have its own designs

Oh, I suppose that's true. The GURPS Droyne scout is nothing like the one in the one in the CT alien module, which seemed like a streamlined hull with a massive sail wing that must either rotate, fold or both in order for landing on any kind of world.

I was going to try and write some Droyne fanfic, but after reading both GURPS and the old CT AM, I simply couldn't wrap my head around them, much less their scout ships. But, on that note, physiological discrepancies aside, PCs might do well to get their hands on a cheapo Droyne scout than a type-S. Just a thought.

 

[GypsyComet]

PCs might do well to get their hands on a cheapo Droyne scout than a type-S.

Hope they're all short, though the Droyne might build a Scout with their Warriors in mind. It's the chairs and the partly psionic controls that would be the biggest operational challenge. Never mind finding parts...

 

[Blue Ghost]

Pimp my Droyne Scout

Hope they're all short, though the Droyne might build a Scout with their Warriors in mind. It's the chairs and the partly psionic controls that would be the biggest operational challenge. Never mind finding parts...

You gotta know that some crowd funded group sells conversion kits; rip out the psionic mind controls, and pop in some standard avionics that plug into the controls. "Pimp my Droyne Scout" kind of thing.

 

[aramis]

Smallest possible jump drive in the smallest available hull.

Of course, once you open up engineering in High Guard, with the smallest permittable drive being a tonne, you can now interstallarize your modular cutter.

I think that the Captain's Gig was about as small as you could viably shrink this, though jump factor three is not an inconsiderable range, though certainly rather claustrophobic.

That is why I assume jump drive then received a hard default minimum size of ten tonnes to prevent this sorts of shenanigans, corresponding with a minimum hull volume of a hundred tonnes for stabilized transitions.

It would seem unlikely that the modern Scout Service would bother with the legacy underperforming Type S Scout Courier, and the only reason these might still be around would be more due to the availability of commercial Jump Drive A alphabet drives, and that they would be more akin to civilian HMMVs.

Except that B5 doesn't change the minimum tonnage for a jump capable ship - see page 36 of HG 80, Definitions; HG79 doesn't even include small craft in its design sequences.

 

[Selandia]

…….

It would seem unlikely that the modern Scout Service would bother with the legacy underperforming Type S Scout Courier, and the only reason these might still be around would be more due to the availability of commercial Jump Drive A alphabet drives, and that they would be more akin to civilian HMMVs.

right

Frontier operation…..
Higher TL could always design lower TL product for whatever reasons.
In the case of the S, the hull and fittings are maintainable at TL 9, A type engine spare are available in nearly every yard

Operational cycle is improved if you do not have to spend two month to go back to yearly maintenance then two months to go back to your subsector

Scout base logistic is made easier with fewer designs

Have fun

Selandia