Imperial Type-S variants

[Condottiere]

I hear at one point there were jump torpedoes, which would indicate that jump drives could be sub tonnic, and hull volume sub centuric.

It's now established that a stabilized transition requires a hundred tonnes of volume, and that the default jump drive requires a minimum of ten tonnes.

What makes up those hundred and ten tonnes, respectively, is open to question.

 

[aramis]

I hear at one point there were jump torpedoes, which would indicate that jump drives could be sub tonnic, and hull volume sub centuric.

It's now established that a stabilized transition requires a hundred tonnes of volume, and that the default jump drive requires a minimum of ten tonnes.

What makes up those hundred and ten tonnes, respectively, is open to question.

Lower drive size limit b2 is 2Tx for j1 I :rofl: 100 td, costIng MCr8 ...
B5 J2 3Td MCr12
Vs bk2 with j2 at 10 td and MCr10... save MCr2 at the expense of 7 Td. Cr6334 less a month and Cr2000 less maintenance per year, but lowering maximum freight by Cr7000.

 

[robject]

It's now established that a stabilized transition requires a hundred tonnes of volume, and that the default jump drive requires a minimum of ten tonnes.

What makes up those hundred and ten tonnes, respectively, is open to question.

Quadro-triticale?

 

[BlackBat242]

Back in the 80s, I drew up a Type S as a tailsitter prolate spheroid*. Still have the deck plans around somewhere, but this forum doesn't seem to allow attaching images and I don't have an image hosting site account.


*in the ref's ATU, streamlined ships were 2:1 long/short axis prolate spheroids, unstreamlined ships were spheres, and smallcraft were typically 2:1 oblate spheroids. All ships were tailsitters, smallcraft weren't. H. Beam Piper was a strong influence...

And Andre Norton (specifically the alien (Baldies) ships in the Time Traders series, where small scouts through large freighters were all spheres - although they could land on, & take off from, planets):

100 dton merchant (Golf Ball) deckplans

100 and 200 dton spherical traders

Golf Ball class Scout
http://juliahwest.com/Traveller/Peter_Vernon/golfballs.html


And don't forget the Ct TL 12 Broadsword Mercenary Cruiser - a ball ship with 4 "legs" (engine pods) and 2 cutters plugged in.
Broadsword Mercenary Cruiser

 

[BlackBat242]

I’ve been thinking for a while about the ubiquitous Imperial Type-S Scout/Courier. About why it is so uniform across the Imperium, over many generations. Yet at the same time, there are differences between editions of Traveller that go beyond those explained by the changes in the rules … different external look (despite always being a wedge), different deck plans, even different class names when given.

A hypothesis: The Type-S designation is a broad requirement specification only, and the different implementations are actually different classes that meet those requirements at different TLs:

A recent real-world example was the Royal Navy in the WW1 era - the Admiralty issued a general destroyer spec to shipbuilders - U tons displacement, V knots speed, W number of guns of X size, Y torpedo tubes & reloads, and Z range at V2 speed.

The individual shipyard produced the detail design, and built however many the Admiralty contracted with them for... making ships of a given "year programme" similar to, but different from, others of the same "programme". Just look at any Jane's Fighting Ships for the era, and you will find many examples.


Cruisers and above were spec'ed with far greater detail, and the Admiralty provided pretty detailed design plans to the shipyards, so that they were truly a uniform class - at least through "groups" which ran across multiple shipyards.

 

[Condottiere]

Starships: Engineering and MongoVerse Jump Drives

1. Default minimum ten tonnes

2. Default minimum five tonnes overhead

3. Default two and a half percent by hull volume per jump factor

4. Twenty percent capacitors

5. Jump governor integrated (possibly one tonne of overhead)

6. Therefore, overhead four tonnes of control machinery plus one tonne of capacitors

7. Variable for default ten tonne jump drive is five tonnes, consisting of four tonne jump core and one tonne capacitors


################################################


Destroyers are disposable tin cans, first class armoured cruisers can cost as much as a battleship.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The type-S pictured in The Traveller Book, the really flat wedge with the bubble canopy, to me, reflects the deckplans in Snapshot.

It's been my suspicion that the inset windows were inspired by the ship in the original Planet of the Apes.

 

[GypsyComet]

The type-S pictured in The Traveller Book, the really flat wedge with the bubble canopy, to me, reflects the deckplans in Snapshot.

The one on Page 50 (and page 64) has the trappings of the GDW standard Scout, as first described in Traders and Gunboats (though still with old art) and which is most often referred to as the Sulieman. Note the two rear hatches and the air-raft bay doors.

The Snapshot Scout, generally called the Intrepid class, has the air-raft bay midship starboard and the main airlock midship port. The T20-era Gibson Scout riffs off of it but is distinct, though its external art would fit fairly well.

The JG Scout is seen on the cover of JTAS#6 and scattered interior art (as well as Traders and Gunboats despite not matching the deckplan). The flat hexagonal bridge canopy, aft mesh cutouts, and only a perfunctory rear hatch (which is more of a service access) and an even flatter profile are characteristic. Despite its appearances in official art it was never called out as distinct from the slightly later Sulieman, and remains the most obscure of the early Type S variants.

 

[Condottiere]

Flattened sphere would have seemed a more likely hull configuration.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The one on Page 50 (and page 64) has the trappings of the GDW standard Scout, as first described in Traders and Gunboats (though still with old art) and which is most often referred to as the Sulieman. Note the two rear hatches and the air-raft bay doors.

The Snapshot Scout, generally called the Intrepid class, has the air-raft bay midship starboard and the main airlock midship port. The T20-era Gibson Scout riffs off of it but is distinct, though its external art would fit fairly well.

The JG Scout is seen on the cover of JTAS#6 and scattered interior art (as well as Traders and Gunboats despite not matching the deckplan). The flat hexagonal bridge canopy, aft mesh cutouts, and only a perfunctory rear hatch (which is more of a service access) and an even flatter profile are characteristic. Despite its appearances in official art it was never called out as distinct from the slightly later Sulieman, and remains the most obscure of the early Type S variants.

It bothers me some, because the scout in Traders and Gunboats, from what I recall, has three decks. And the scout ship in the art I'm talking about clearly cannot have three decks and be 100dt. But that's just me.

 

[mike wightman]

The upper and lower decks (the 'gallery' and the cargo hold)are no more than crawl space spaces IMHO - they can not be full 3m floor to ceiling squares

 

[GypsyComet]

It bothers me some, because the scout in Traders and Gunboats, from what I recall, has three decks. And the scout ship in the art I'm talking about clearly cannot have three decks and be 100dt. But that's just me.

Hardly just you. It's one of the first puzzles a deckplan wonk will try to solve.

My own calculations and tinkering have resulted in the following solutions:
-The 7.5m Height given in Traders and Gunboats (T&G) is for the JG version shown in the exterior art. The width and length from the JG deckplans and that height is pretty close to the target 100 dtons.
-The T&G deckplans are narrower and the correct exterior art is clearly taller. The Sulieman with the T&G width and length needs to be 9m tall at the tail, or a full three decks.
-The Sulieman at 9m tall at the tail is just tall enough for the geometry to work out and allow the hatches behind the Bridge to be crawl locks into the upper and lower "decks". Note that both are called "galleries".
-The Upper and Lower Galleries are part of the Bridge volume, and are not intended to be living spaces. The aft compartment of the Upper Gallery is a sloped roof attic type space that was partly filled with sensor and comms gear in active service. The forward compartment was almost entirely full of sensor and comms gear, and drops in height until only the agile can crawl through the forward hatch to either the outside or to the corridor behind the Bridge.
-The Lower Gallery is a compartment just about the right size and place for sensitive surveillance gear to be used while in orbit, isolated by the hull from the active emitters used for space in the Upper Gallery. For a Reserve Scout, it's a great trash holder. Only a Beaker or Seed Spitter is going to be comfortable in that compartment.

 

[Blue Ghost]

In the spirit of your reply, the coming holidays, and this thread, and as per forum policy about only posting good links to good vids, I give you "Beaker"

https://youtu.be/VnT7pT6zCcA

Would he really feel comfortable in the crawl space?\

Seriously, the crawl space argument makes sense, but I seem to recall that the cross sectional view shows otherwise. But, I dismiss that as per your class variant comment.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The upper and lower decks (the 'gallery' and the cargo hold)are no more than crawl space spaces IMHO - they can not be full 3m floor to ceiling squares

The CT S7 Scout deck plans does not even remotely fit inside the hull, with the specified dimensions:




The hull is only about 80 Dt:
7,5 m × 24 m × 37,5 m / 6 = 1125 m³
1125 m³ / 14 m³ ≈ 80 Dt.

 

[Blue Ghost]

So yeah, let's straighten out the scout class / deck plan problem.

 

[GypsyComet]

The CT S7 Scout deck plans does not even remotely fit inside the hull, with the specified dimensions:

The hull is only about 80 Dt:
7,5 m × 24 m × 37,5 m / 6 = 1125 m³
1125 m³ / 14 m³ ≈ 80 Dt.

Replace 7.5m with 9m and you get 1350 m3. That number should look familiar...

 

[Condottiere]

I have nothing against crawlspace.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So yeah, let's straighten out the scout class / deck plan problem.

Well, the simple solution is to ignore the problem and possibly move the cargo bay rearward. Many other deck plans in S7 are also questionable, but I still use them.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Replace 7.5m with 9m and you get 1350 m3. That number should look familiar...

I prefer to make the ship a little bigger with maintained proportions (almost), say 8 m × 28 m × 40 m, which is just above 100 Dt and much easier to calculate with.

Something like this:

Living areas are still vastly over-sized compared to the design spec, as it is in the original deck plans...

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, the simple solution is to ignore the problem and possibly move the cargo bay rearward. Many other deck plans in S7 are also questionable, but I still use them.

To be honest it was never an issue in any gaming session I ran years back, but it was an oddity.

As a sidenote we sometimes used FASA's Zhodani Ninz class for Snapshot sessions. Never for serious RPing.