Imperial warrants per year

[rancke]

Hans:
That GT quote is without basis in non-GT sources.

Yes, I know. So?

Especially since the warrant Norris obtains is in fact ex post facto justification for the forbidden attempt to obtain it.

That's one way of putting it. I prefer to think of it as ex post facto proof that he had the right to go fetch it.

An Imperial Warrant legalizes all actions taken... only the issuer can cancel it. They speak with the Emperor's Voice, and act with the Emperor's authority; the Emperor is the font of all imperial law.

The reason why I qouted Nobles was that previously published material just didn't explain Imperial warrants. What you say here might be so and it might not be so. There's simply not enough material to say for sure, and some of what there is is highly implausible. I'm thinking especially about the 'to bearer' warrants here.

While the treaty of admission might grant certain powers to the locals, that's not going to matter much in the face of a warrant, if that world is filled with even a large minority of now-loyal-to-the-3I citizens, or the warrant holder arrives with "assistance" of a BatRon. (Yes, I've had a player do just that kind of thing... toppling a semi-autonomous client state for harboring Ine Givar... on a ducal from Delphine.)

And what if the world is filled with loyal, productive citizens that the Emperor does not want to upset? Especially if it has five Imperial fleets' worth of system defenses and half a dozen Imperial battleships building in its shipyards? What's your BatRon worth then?


Hans

 

[aramis]

The guy with the warrant makes the rules, unless the guy with the pointy hat disagrees. Since the guy with the pointy hat is so far away, he doesn't matter in the moment.

The canonical references mostly involve Adv 1 and Norris. Norris commits treason (and, it is implied, desertion) to obtain a warrant. If he's right, and its' there and a bearer warrant, he can justify it, and the whole ship is in the clear. If he's wrong, he and the ship's senior officers are going to spend a long time in a penal colony.

 

[rancke]

The guy with the warrant makes the rules, unless the guy with the pointy hat disagrees. Since the guy with the pointy hat is so far away, he doesn't matter in the moment.

Or the guy with the warrant makes the rules within the limits set forth in the warrant by the guy in the pointy hat, a much safer way for the guy in the pointy hat to use warrants.

The canonical references mostly involve Adv 1 and Norris.

Adv 1 does not mention Norris and is of very little value because what it does say is so implausible. The text that does mention Norris and his warrant (SMC) does not mention 'to bearer' warrants at all.

Norris commits treason (and, it is implied, desertion) to obtain a warrant. If he's right, and its' there and a bearer warrant, he can justify it, and the whole ship is in the clear. If he's wrong, he and the ship's senior officers are going to spend a long time in a penal colony.

"Norris appealed directly to the Emperor for command of the Imperial forces in the Marches, [...]. Although the Emperor responded by issuing a warrant which put Norris in command, it was lost en route; due to the distances and transit times involved, the very existence of the document remained unknown." [SMC:11] (Emphasis mine).

"Norris, with some slight evidence that his warrant from the Emperor was on Algine (aboard a wrecked cruiser down on the planet), led a secret expedition to that interdicted world to recover the document. The quandary that faced Norris was that he was prohibited from going to the interdicted world of Algine without the express permission of the Emperor. The warrant, if it was there, would be permission to go there; if it wasn't there, he risked his career." [SMC:16] (emphasis mine).

Not one word about a bearer warrant. The warrant in the FFW boardgame to the contrary notwithstanding, no one else would be able to use this warrant to put himself in charge, because this warrant put Norris in charge.


Hans

 

[dean]

Well, there wouldn't be much point to warrants if anyone could decide that the warrant holder was operating outside his authority and stopped him or refused to help, either.

Warrants are likely fairly broad documents which do give authority to a particular individual, with the power to do certain broad things (command the fleets, prosecute a noble, etc).

I'd also suspect that there are "secret" warrants that act as get-out-of-jail-free cards to the bearer; he's acting independently and pretty much breaks whatever laws he wants in pursuit of his duty, but if caught he produces the magic warrant and either walks free or gets turned over to Imperial Authorities.

 

[Icosahedron]

Hans: thanks for the alternative word. I think both are acceptable in the context.

All:
My ATU is a darker one wherein the Emperor makes the laws.
The distance factor would ensure that the Emperor would be very careful about what the warrant permitted.
OTOH, I think any warrant would be drawn up by a very competent legal team to ensure that it was applicable in every conceivable eventuality, but didn't allow the bearer to overstep his duty.
I don't think bearer warrants would exist.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

An Imperial Warrant legalizes all actions taken... only the issuer can cancel it. They speak with the Emperor's Voice, and act with the Emperor's authority; the Emperor is the font of all imperial law.

David Frost: Are you really saying the President can do something illegal?
Richard Nixon: I'm saying that when the President does it, that means it's *not* illegal!

- Frost/Nixon

 

[rancke]

An Imperial Warrant legalizes all actions taken... only the issuer can cancel it. They speak with the Emperor's Voice, and act with the Emperor's authority; the Emperor is the font of all imperial law.

Tell that to King John and King Charles and King George III. I think it was George number Three. You know, the one the Founding Fathers used as an example of Rule of Man as opposed to Rule of Law? There are different degrees of monarchy, and just because a monarch is the font of law doesn't necesssarily mean that he can do anything he damn well pleases. (Note that I'm not saying that it can't mean that -- there are plenty of historical examples of absolute monarchs -- I'm just saying that it's not a given. Especially in a political entity that is built on a tradition that goes all the way back to the United Nations Charter.)


Hans

 

[Gvadakoung]

Imperial Warrants are emergency measures. I imagine that even Strephon, with his distaste for leaving matters of concern to the relentless grind of bureaucratic pressure still prefers his agents handling matters more discreetly than an Imperial Warrant would allow.

IMTU, therefore, Imperial Warrants are rare. If more than five are issued (from the Imperium itself) in a standard year, then something is wrong with the system or Strephon's agents. I favor a more baroque, antique and cumbersome language for my warrants:

TO ALL AND SINGULAR that these presents come, Vorlithe haut-Ackerbeltz, Lord Chancellor to his August Presence STREPHON AELLA by the Mandate of His People Emperor, Archduke of Sylea, &c. gives greeting and all due regards.

WHEREAS the Iridium Throne has concern for the welfare of each citizen and body corporate and each world within the Imperial Demesne and therefore must act with all diligence to uphold the general peace, ever ready to step forth when those institutions of Justice move too slowly to serve the common good and

WHEREAS we have all confidence in the loyalty and discretion of our good and faithful servant N.________ who beareth these letters patent to act upon our behalf, at our pleasure and with our voice in all matters wherein our interest is served

BE IT KNOWN HENCEFORTH that we do deputize and ordain said bearer with our authority to command all assistance as shall be required, in accord with our DICTA XCVII as enrolled upon the Imperial Code, at which fail not upon pain of our displeasure.

Given this __th Day in the __th Year since the accession of Strephon Aella, at the Chancery of the Imperium at Capital, Core by our authority at the behest of His August Presence in witness whereof our sign-manual and seal.

 

[Redcap]

These are sounding more and more like stylised Letters of Marque and Reprisal, I think.

Granted, the Imperium is a Clased society.

Granted, many documents may well be couched in terms that make a brave - ok, vaguely arrogant - lawyer weep.

However, IMHO, an Imperial Warrant should be ornate enough to impress, clear enough to be understood by someone with the education of a private in the Imperial Marines, and effective enough to have its instructions followed without argument or question.

This would, I think, require that it be written in plain Galanglic, in a two-part document and wallet. one part of the wallet would be some form of electronic seal or similar device to allow all official Imperial IT, Access, and Security systems to recognise the seal's authority, with the other part a visual component following the format, say, of an Imperial Police or similar identification card.

Something like this, visually, perhaps?

Granted the actual thing would have a few more bells whistles and embellishments, but you get the idea. The electronic component would be in the other half of, say, the leather wallet, like a present-day US Federal Law Enforcement ID wallet, or similar, with the Imperial sunburst in gold as the 'shield' component, the electronics behind it. In use, you show the ID to the sophont concerned, and press the wallet itself against any Imperial system reader when you need to process an order, access an area, and so on.

That's my take on it, of course. YMMV

 

[aramis]

Roger, that's pretty much how it works in MTU, except that there's no shield. The warrant itself is, like current US Active Duty & Military Civil Service ID's, also the data-access device. When it's not a general bearer card, it's built in reader opaques the text when not held with the assigned digits. TL15 smartcard.

 

[Magnus von Thornwood]

Wah-hoo!

Yep, I am a Law wonk, I am loving the electrons out of this stuff, and I have to say so far I think I would all the above examples depending on the space-time of the TU.

But that's just me and while I do read this one for fun, it also helps me on some more research...

 

[rancke]

Imperial Warrant: Instrument of power issued at the highest levels of government. A warrant is a written or electronic document provided to trusted agents of the Imperium as a method of bypassing the bureraucracy. Typically, a warrant is provided by the Emperor to an individual who utilizes the power it provides to accomplish some mission. Missions may include establishment of colonies in areas requiring development, the assumption of military command in the midst of a crisis, and the unilateral establishment of new noble lines to administer provinces which has suffered from war or economic collapse.
[Library Data (A-M), p. 32]​

I don't think there's any statutory lower limit to the problems Strephon can decide to handle by warrant-equipped agent. If he decides he want to make sure there are enough restrooms outfitted for Aslan needs in the Imperial starport on Emape, he can do it.

There are two practical limits, however. Strepon has to hear about the problem, and he has to spend enough time studying the problem to decide if it merits his personal intervention.

The three examples in the LD entry quoted above are all pretty high-level, suitable for dukes and above as agents, I'd say. GT:Nobles mentions a number of other examples (My suggestion for importance of the agent in parenthesis):

* Review the efficiency of the Imperial Navy in one sector (Sector or Grand Admiral, former or serving (minimum a baron)).

* Negotiate a treaty with the nonaligned worlds along a border (Ambassador extraordinary (minimum baron)).

* Investigate the complaints of a member world (High-ranking MoJ agent or personal emmisary of Strephon (minimum noble rank depends on what (or especially who) the complaint is about).

* A Special Investigator from the Ministry of Justice carries a warrant (he's probably equivalent to a senior sector-level official in most Imperial civilian ministries, i.e. minimum a baron).

* Diplomat instructed to obtain a peace treaty "by any means short of ceding Imperial territory" (minimum rank would depend on the importance of the enemy).

I think we're talking about more than 5 or 10 warrants per year, but a good deal less than 1000. Somewhere between 100 and 200, perhaps?


Hans

 

[Icosahedron]

The three examples in the LD entry quoted above are all pretty high-level, suitable for dukes and above as agents, I'd say. GT:Nobles mentions a number of other examples (My suggestion for importance of the agent in parenthesis):

I think we're talking about more than 5 or 10 warrants per year, but a good deal less than 1000. Somewhere between 100 and 200, perhaps?
​

Again, it depends on what a Warrant is.

If it covers only the missions described in the Library Data, then there won't be many. If they're handed out to naval auditors, diplomats and detectives across 11,000 worlds, then there may be considerably more - limited, as you say, only by the Emperor's personal ability to sanction them.

12 is an average of one a month, 50 is an average of one a week, 350 is an average of one a day, 1000 is an average of three a day. How much time do we think the Emperor will spend reading case-notes and signing warrants?

Personally, I think the Emperor will only issue warrants where the nobles who would normally deal with such matters in the course of their jobs have proven incompetent or untrustworthy.

I think most of the GT examples would be covered by the existing government framework - if not, the Empire is still ramshackle. How do you get an interstellar empire if you lack things like a naval Internal Affairs bureau, a complaints commission or an effective diplomatic corps?

If, as Emperor, I found myself having to deal with petty stuff like that, I'd be sending in a guy with a very big warrant to reap a few heads from my government structure!​

 

[rancke]

Again, it depends on what a Warrant is.

If it covers only the missions described in the Library Data, then there won't be many.

Well, obviously. But while Nobles may not be canon (I don't want to have that discussion again (for a while, anyway )), it doesn't contradict previously published material (at least, not any more than it contradicts itself ), merely expands on it. So why not utilize it? The whole point of having a canon is to ensure that two different authors don't make up mutually contradictory material, and if canon is silent or inadequate on a subject, how is that going to help anyone?

If they're handed out to naval auditors, diplomats and detectives across 11,000 worlds, then there may be considerably more - limited, as you say, only by the Emperor's personal ability to sanction them.

To me, it looks like they're handed out to auditors, diplomats, and detectives across 28 sectors, if you see what I mean.

12 is an average of one a month, 50 is an average of one a week, 350 is an average of one a day, 1000 is an average of three a day. How much time do we think the Emperor will spend reading case-notes and signing warrants?

Signing a warrant can't be any harder than signing an order for a regular bureaucrat. It's the reading case notes that's the big question. How much time does Strephon need to inform himself and make a decision? In the only case we have information about, Norris' warrant, he seems to have taken a long time to make up his mind, but I don't see how that helps us much, since he obviously didn't spend every moment of every day working on that one problem.

The figures I suggested -- 2 to 4 warrants per week -- doesn't sound tremendously burdensome.

Personally, I think the Emperor will only issue warrants where the nobles who would normally deal with such matters in the course of their jobs have proven incompetent or untrustworthy.

Or may have proven incompetent or untrustworthy. Prevention is better than cure, especially when the ailment can ruin lives on the interstellar scale.

I think most of the GT examples would be covered by the existing government framework - if not, the Empire is still ramshackle. How do you get an interstellar empire if you lack things like a naval Internal Affairs bureau, a complaints commission or an effective diplomatic corps?

It's a classic problem of government, who shall watch the watchmen? The Persian Empire had a clear hierachy of reporting from the individual city, to the satrap, to the state secretary, to the central government. But it also had royal inspectors, called "King's Eyes and King's Ears", traveling the empire and checking up on the satraps. It's not that Strephon's bureaucracy lacks things like internal affairs departments, it's that he wants alternate lines of communication, ones that bypass his ministers. Why do you think the Imperiallines network is run by the Office of Personal Transportation and not one of the ministries?



Hans

 

[Redcap]

From Lois McMaster Bujold's "Memory"...

"An Auditor," said Gregor, "is not just my Voice. He's my eyes and cars, as well. very much in the original sense of the word. My listener. A probe, though most surely not a robot, to go places I can't, and report back with an absolutely independent angle of view. You" - Gregor's lip twisted up - "have the most independent angle of view of any man I've ever met."

Miles's heart seemed to stop. Surely Gregor couldn't be thinking of -

"I think," said Gregor, "it will save ever so many steps if I simply appoint you as an acting Imperial Auditor. With the usual broad limits on a Ninth Auditor's powers of course; whatever you do has to be at least dimly related to the event you are assigned to evaluate, in this case, Illyan's breakdown. You can't order executions, and in the unlikely event you direct any arrests ... well, I would appreciate it if they came attached to sufficient evidence for successful prosecutions. One expects a certain, um, traditional decorum in an Imperial Auditor's investigations, and due care."

This is how I actually view Imperial Warrants. There's a better quote towards the end of the book, but I can't find my copy of the book - I've put it somewhere safe for later reading, probably a box somewhere, and cannot now find the blasted thing (the above quote came off a free abridged version online via google books), referring to something like the rare, incredible, impossible, unsolvable, and events critical to the continued existence of the Empire, require the use of an Auditor to investigate. You can translate that into the 3I, and use it practically verbatim, I suspect

 

[aramis]

As I said, Bujold's the best example of the principle of an edict 97 warrant, which is cearly not the only type of warrant.

 

[Garyius2003]

I see them as both big and small. Maybe a few hundred a year.

Big (rare): "Emperor, as you requested we have reviewed the data banks. The assembled deep system scan data information of traffic patterns at gas giants indicates there may be a secret base in the rift as Baron Brown feared in his last note, but there is no proof."

"So either Duke Smithson is stupid or corrupted, or the Baron's information is false and his misjump simple chance...Admiral Vordurk was just transfed out there and impressed us greatly with his time on the small boat design board here. Draft a warrant to him to investigate with a task force sized fleet. He is to take such action as is necessary to secure the border and peace. If he finds such a base, he is to do what he feels needs to be done and then take aboard Duke Smithson and bring him here to personally report."

Little: "Emperor, we can't find any report data evidence that Ling Standard has enslaved the population of Trin's Veil 1122 as the tip from the Traveller's Aid Society said, but the lack of any recorded communiction being made by a resident through the x-boat system for the last year is offputting."

"Draft a warrant to the sector admiral. A squadron is to procede there without delay. If slavery or mass killing is present he or his trusted deputy is to seize evidence, stop the practice with such means as he thinks correct, and bring the evidence to the Arch-Duke with a copy to us."

 

[Icosahedron]

I see them as both big and small. Maybe a few hundred a year.

Big (rare): "Emperor, as you requested we have reviewed the data banks. The assembled deep system scan data information of traffic patterns at gas giants indicates there may be a secret base in the rift as Baron Brown feared in his last note, but there is no proof."

"So either Duke Smithson is stupid or corrupted, or the Baron's information is false and his misjump simple chance...Admiral Vordurk was just transfed out there and impressed us greatly with his time on the small boat design board here. Draft a warrant to him to investigate with a task force sized fleet. He is to take such action as is necessary to secure the border and peace. If he finds such a base, he is to do what he feels needs to be done and then take aboard Duke Smithson and bring him here to personally report."

Little: "Emperor, we can't find any report data evidence that Ling Standard has enslaved the population of Trin's Veil 1122 as the tip from the Traveller's Aid Society said, but the lack of any recorded communiction being made by a resident through the x-boat system for the last year is offputting."

"Draft a warrant to the sector admiral. A squadron is to procede there without delay. If slavery or mass killing is present he or his trusted deputy is to seize evidence, stop the practice with such means as he thinks correct, and bring the evidence to the Arch-Duke with a copy to us."

Personally, I'm not sure about either of these, but my ATU is a little different.

The first one could be covered by regular orders passed to the Admiral via the Grand Admiral following the regular Chiefs of Staff meeting chaired by the Emperor. Any possibility of a secret base would be a cause for naval concern and would be investigated as a matter of course. Perhaps it's an OTU thing, but in MTU an admiral would have the power to investigate such matters anyway, and the navy operates independently from nobles and politicians.

The second one might require a warrant of some form, but it's far more likely to be issued by the local Duke, as it would be his responsibility to police matters in his own backyard. It would only come to higher notice if the duke was either clueless or in cahoots with the slavers. (As I said, incompetent or untrustworthy).

Even so, I think somewhere between one a week and one a day might issue from the Emperor's hand.

 

[The Oz]

I see Imperial Warrants (and their lower-level equivalents) as being saved for those situations where the Emperor expects =serious= opposition to the mission of the Imperial Warrant, possibly including opposition both outside and inside the Imperium. IOW, Warrants are for those occasions where there just isn't any other way to accomplish the mission except going around the normal channels (including such things as the MoJ, or IRIS, or whatever other secret groups exist IYTU). Warrants under these conditions would be very wide-ranging, and allow the bearer (who would be named, I think, in the warrant) to do almost anything, including acts that might be crimes in other circumstances. It would =not= empower agents of his to break the law, although it would allow the bearer to get his agents "out of jail free" if needed.

Since such Warrants would be exceedingly powerful, I think they would be very rare birds indeed, perhaps only one or two being issued in an entire reign.

The other possibility is that a Warrant might be issued where speed is all-important, and there just isn't time for the bureaucracy to get its act together to deal with the problem. These kind of warrants would be much more narrow-focused, probably with a "mission statement" of some kind on the document, and might also have a "expires by" date on them as a final limitation on their effect. Such Warrants might be much more common, especially at the lower levels (Archdukes and Dukes) who could expect to hear about a coming problem in time to do something but only if they can get the riposte started =right now=. I don't see the Emperor issuing many such Warrants, simply because of the time delay involved. If a problem needs to be bucked up to Capitol, practically by definition there has to be enough time for the bureaucracy to consider solutions.

 

[rancke]

I see Imperial Warrants (and their lower-level equivalents) as being saved for those situations where the Emperor expects =serious= opposition to the mission of the Imperial Warrant, possibly including opposition both outside and inside the Imperium.

I don't think it needs to be anywhere near that serious. Warrants are, according to the by-now-oft-quoted library data, used to bypass the normal chains of command. In most organizations it's illegal or at least against regulations to take orders from someone who is not your duly appointed superior. Without a warrant (and without the enabling legislation for such warrants) it would be illegal/grounds for dismissal for anyone to obey anyone who showed up and started to throw his weight about, regardless of rank and social status

IOW, Warrants are for those occasions where there just isn't any other way to accomplish the mission except going around the normal channels (including such things as the MoJ, or IRIS, or whatever other secret groups exist IYTU).

Buty what if the normal chains of command are inadequate to get the job done? Take one of the examples from Nobles, the Special Investigator from the MoJ who has just traced the location of a pirate lair. The local MoJ office does not have access to warships, so he seeks out the nearest IN warship.

"Lieutenant, I have reasons to believe that there's a pirate lair in the next star system and that it will soon be abandoned. Please take me there and help me destroy those nasty pirates."

"I'm sorry, but I have orders to deliver this load of self-sealing stembolts to the base in that other system. Please jump to the duchy capital and submit your request to the Fleet Admiral. I'm sure the pirates haven't taken the precaution of placing a spy at Fleet HQ to warn them, and I'm sure that a delay of a month or two won't give them the opportunity to escape."​

At this point, it would really be useful if the MoJ agent can whip out a warrant and tell the lieutenant that his orders have been changed.

Since such Warrants would be exceedingly powerful, I think they would be very rare birds indeed, perhaps only one or two being issued in an entire reign.

Unlimited warrants would indeed be exceedingly powerful. Which is why Nobles introduce the notion that most Imperial warrants will be limited in one or more ways.


Hans