Imperiallines #7

[Selandia]

From a political standpoint, I consider its purpose is to substract the estate of the Noble from harrasment/impoverishment by planetary authority (Figure a diplomatic/economic immunity)

From a functionnal standpoint, I would play it as the equivalent of the District of Columbia in the US (mutatis mutandis, of course); the TI's officialdom would be above petty harrasment by planetary autorities by having its buildings in the Noble's estate were the local law is written by the Noble. Since you have law making powers, on a Balkanized world, I would play it like the equivalent of the principality of Monaco, on a Federated world you may be the equivalent of a province. Simple unlimitatives suggestions, of course.

An unstated element in canon is: is the owned hex part of the controled hex or may it lay outside? In the first case you define the meaning of ownership, while in the second its is the local law that defines it.

have fun

Selandia

 

[Selandia]

From Imperiallines #7, p.5 (emphasis mine):

thanks,
so the second hypothesis is right as it does not conflict with canon.

have fun

Selandia

 

[david.wendelken]

I was very disappointed with Imperial Lines #7 and the information it presented on nobles. It seemed disjointed and largely redundant of existing information.

It pretty much ignored what players and referees really need to know about nobles in their game!

What powers, responsibilities, privileges, etc. do the different types of nobles have? What can a noble expect from governmental officials, police, the imperial bureaucracy and military on their own home world or while traveling?
We need some nitty-gritty details on this subject!

If someone gets a noble rank, which of the 3 kinds of nobles are they?

Can one be a landed noble of lower rank and a ceremonial noble of higher rank?

 

[whulorigan]

I was very disappointed with Imperial Lines #7 and the information it presented on nobles. It seemed disjointed and largely redundant of existing information.

It pretty much ignored what players and referees really need to know about nobles in their game!

What powers, responsibilities, privileges, etc. do the different types of nobles have? What can a noble expect from governmental officials, police, the imperial bureaucracy and military on their own home world or while traveling?
We need some nitty-gritty details on this subject!

Well, the article is entitled "Part I", so presumably there is at least another article on the subject in the works.

If someone gets a noble rank, which of the 3 kinds of nobles are they?

If I am understanding the article correctly, under normal circumstances, you are a Landed Noble if you go thru the Noble Career proper. If you just have Soc increases as part of normal CharGen, you are an Honor Noble. You would not normally be a Ceremonial Noble, as they have an actual government job position (unless, perhaps, you are retired from something - perhaps the Functionary Career).

Can one be a landed noble of lower rank and a ceremonial noble of higher rank?

Yes. The article mentions that many Nobles in the Imperial Core are in just that situation. Presumably, if you go thru the Nobles Career and otherwise get a generic C6/Soc +1 increase outside the Noble Intrigues & Promotion mechanism of the Noble Career, it is an Honor Noble increase, not an actual increase in Landed Holdings. The same would presumably hold for a Landed Noble granted a higher title to enable him/her to hold a higher Ceremonial/Government Position than his/her Landed Title would normally allow.

 

[GypsyComet]

If someone gets a noble rank, which of the 3 kinds of nobles are they?

Can one be a landed noble of lower rank and a ceremonial noble of higher rank?

There are some guidelines for the first question in the article, but character generation is intended to be open to interpretation, not closed.

If the character started well out of the Noble range of Social Standing he is probably the first noble in the family. The type of nobility awarded is down to the narrative of his career and whether or not your Referee really wants to deal with a Landed Noble. The three types of noble were brought into Traveller to address that exact concern. ("My Navy guy just got four Soc during Muster Out, making me a Marquis! Hey Ref, what does that mean?") If the Ref and players want a powers game, having the newly appointed Castellan of the local Cluster be a PC is possibly more interesting, but a game that doesn't want to dabble in cluster or subsector politics is better off designating the newly minted Marquis an Honor Noble. If he emerged with Proxies then *someone* in his family is probably Landed, even if it isn't him, and he is either holding proxies as a form of "remittance man", or his non-Landed family has provided a similar monetary arrangement that isn't actual proxies but which has the same income feature.

Flexibility that the players and Ref can use is key.

As to the second question: certainly, though unusual. The two titles may run through the family separately most of the time, and both land on one person only if really necessary; or the ceremonial title is dominant but happens to also come with an attached Barony so that the Moot is accessible.

Stacking with an Honor title is far more common.

The rest of your questions are things that didn't change with T5.

 

[whulorigan]

Land Grant Question

@GypsyComet: I have a question -

According to Imperiallines #7, p.4:

Imperiallines #7, p.4
Each Landed Noble is granted control over a part of each world to which their title applies. In the case of Dukes this can be almost an entire World Hex on one world and one or more Terrain hexes on every other world in their fief.

I want to make sure that I am understanding the intention of the Core Rules correctly.

A (Lesser) Duke receives 64 Mainworld Terrain Hexes (THexes) as their Land Grant. This corresponds roughly to the World Hex (WHex) mentioned above (which is 70 THexes). My understanding of the core rules is that the 1st of the 64 THexes of the grant is on the noble's Homeworld (presumably the primary Fief-world), and the other 63 THexes are randomly allocated across the Sector on other {Im = +4 or higher} worlds. And that for each of these THexes, another THex is received on a non-Mainworld within the same system as the respective Mainworld THex. This is based on my understanding of the Land Grant Table (w/ Errata) on p.96, and the Subordinate Additional Territory Grants on p.50, both in the T5 Core Rules.

In the quote above, it seems to imply that all of the Mainworld THexes are on the primary world of the Fief, w/ THexes on "other worlds" in the fief as well.

I guess my primary question regards the precise definition of the term "Fief" in this context. Is the "Fief" just the primary mainworld (& system) with which the Landed Noble title is associated, or is the "fief" the sum of all THexes (in the case of a Duke, across the entire Sector) with which the Landed Title has associated THex Grants?

Could you expand a little bit on how THexes are granted for Landed Nobles of the Marquis level and higher?

 

[GypsyComet]

First, there is a difference between the statistical exercise of numbers, and the actual map of the Imperium, In this case, there are usually no more than two dozen Importance 4+ worlds in a sector. You have to cook the dice to get more. Each of those worlds has its own Duke.

Spreading bits of fief around is a way to keep these powerful people on civil terms in theory, but in practice it can rob a Noble of focus. Looking at the Marches, you might apply that rule to say that, for example, Delphine of Mora has a patch on Regina and another somewhere else in the Regina system, as well as bits of Rhylanor, Lunion, Trin, and whatever passes for a terrain hex in the Glisten Belt. While these make State visits a bit easier in that you don't have to have the most powerful people in the sector booking hotel rooms when they visit each other, most of the time those patches are just a bit of income property so the Dukes don't step on each others toes. So where are the rest of those terrain hexes?

For a "small f" Landed Duke (which are rare, for whatever reason) those hexes are concentrated in the Administrative District attached to the specific Landed Title. The Small Duke has both a stake in, and some influence on, every world in his zone of responsibility. In the Marches these are concentrated along the border, which should certainly be suggestive.

The "big F" Dukes always appear, in the Third Imperium at least, associated with Subsector Capitals. They also get twice as many hexes to work with. If they put a "home away from home" on each of the other Capitals (and not all subsectors *have* a capital) that still leaves a lot of hexes left over. Adding a hex on every mainworld in their subsector still won't exhaust the supply in most subsectors. Not even doubling up on the significant worlds (In and Ag) will do that, though it might in old neighborhoods like the Solomani Rim. The rest will, in most cases, end up on the subsector Capital.

In a tabula rasa situation random placement is a step in setting building. In the Third Imperium, the specific chunks of fief spread across a region are subject to the long established politics and tradition, the will of the Emperor who granted the Title, and the whim of whatever functionary visited the various locations with survey stakes and parcel book.

Really important worlds, whether they are Importance 4+ or not, probably have every nearby Duke involved. If a sector quadrant, for example, had its Industrial worlds all fall in one of the four subsectors, it is quite likely that all four Dukes have some stake in them, even beyond their own subsector. Such is the reach of a Duke.

Specifics of a fief are also subject to change by the Emperor. In the Marches, Aramis is (at times) under split administrative control by the three adjacent Subsector Dukes. (Deneb Sector is also pretty sparse when it comes to Dukes.) Presumably this arrangement was decided by the Emperor, though it might have been wrangled by the three Dukes around Aramis based on economic desire, relative power, and geographic proximity. Ducal negotiations aside, the Emperor could declare that one or more worlds move to the control of another of the three Dukes, boot one Duke out of the subsector entirely, or seat a new Duke of Aramis and end all prior remote administrative arrangements, all without touching the actual Titles of the existing Dukes.