Input on Salvage rules

[aramis]

TNE, you're also not going to have PP fuel of note. It's still only 88 tons to jump.

 

[savage]

A broadsword is about 30 to 40 meters high. Trees in a jungle often are up to 60 meters high. And this is not Terra so I can get away with this =0)



Maybe in CT, but in TNE at least it is. I am not sure about the MT version, but I think it is streamlined there too. So IMTU it is streamlined.


When it comes to the Zho team, I don't think a TL 2 world has much of a system in place to count teeth in humans as if they were cattle. Granted that the locals aren't ignorant. They know what a starship is, but have no idea how to operate one or build one. Let alone what kind of abilities it has.

But you are right, I have a few edges that needs to be polished down to a degree that they become plausible.

Bury it in a sand dune. Have it be a"rumoured" vessel... the Imp govt is looking for it... they have a hell of a deal for the finder its a 30 year old pirate ship/or govt transport. Keep the ship we want the cargo.

 

[Icosahedron]

IMTU the salvage claim would be handled in line with Imperial Law at the nearest starport. I think ship ownership and salvage would be a sufficiently 'interstellar' concern to be handled by interstellar rather than local law. Otherwise you can get into some real messes - the ship might be the sovereign territory of its original port of registration.

That's a very interesting take on the issue and one that deserves examination. I'd always assumed IMTU that, within the Third Imperium, vessels would not be the sovereign territory of their port of registration because the Imperium handles nearly all registration. I now see that your take on the subject allows for much more adventuring opportunities while also being more nuanced.

Consider the idea stolen!


Regards,
Bill

Bill, my take was that the registration/salvage should be Imperial in order to avoid such problems, but if you like the headaches, you're welcome to the idea.

A few damaged seals could create problems in the jungle and aircon would probably be the start of a long repair program, but I would hope that a ship with intact seals would be proof against a few bugs and monkeys for more than 5 years.
I'd love to see references to the lock-picking apes and metal/plastic eating bugs (not being dismissive, just curious).

 

[Whipsnade]

Bill, my take was that the registration/salvage should be Imperial in order to avoid such problems, but if you like the headaches, you're welcome to the idea.

Icosahedron.

I got the "should be Imperial" part, but your remarks about ship's being "sovereign territory" immediately reminded me that the Marches has interstellar borders. We've got all sorts of borders between superpowers, small polities, and independent systems.

I'd always assumed that official vessels belonging to one polity were sovereign territory while visiting another polity. This means warships, couriers, and the like would be equivalent to flying diplomatic pouches. What your post did was suggest that civilian vessels may have the same status in certain locations.

That's the idea I tried, and failed, to get across.

I'd love to see references to the lock-picking apes and metal/plastic eating bugs (not being dismissive, just curious).

I've read about the apes before. The incidents take place in zoos, research labs, rehabilitation camps, and the like where they can watch humans operate the locks and then mimic what they've observed. That's just with locks and doors. They're also strong enough to simply break into places.

As for bugs, who knows? We've got bugs that can petrochemicals now, IIRC a type of early packaging is no longer used in food service because of this. If Zparkz's jungle has something resembling natural rubber, they may be something there thinks airlock seals might make a tasty treat. Aside from the bugs, plain old everyday water and mold only need one slightly sprung hatch from a rough landing to create a helluva mess in five years.


Regards,
Bill

 

[aramis]

I've seen a weasel open a cheap padlock, without a key. He was able to trip the action with his claws.

 

[rancke]

1) The players got stranded after ending "Secret of the Ancients". In that module they had made a deal with a relative to one of the players. This relative operated a small starship. As the party was picked up by the Ancient ship, the relative got tired of waiting several weeks for them to return. The ship was running low on supplies and needed to go to a starport. The relative had no idea when the players would return. As the owner still need to pay sallary to the crew and cover morgage, they just can't sit weeks at end waiting while not making any money. Thus when the players returns to the gas giant and find their transport gone, the ancient starship decide to drop them off someplace safe just a few parsecs away. Knorbes ends up as their final destination. The ship drops them off in the wilderness a few days by foot to the closest settlement.

The Ancient ship gets you over one hurdle, namely the orbital cover for the Ancient Base on Korbes' lesser continent (IMTU named "Lesser" ). Presumbly the ship has anti-detection capability up the wazoo.

2) The derelict hasn't crashed, but made and emergency landing. Which will be apparent when the shp is foind under the vegetation.

The derelict would have approached Knorbes at a time when the picket had been temporarily withdrawn due to being needed elsewhere. Also works.

3) The ship is a 800ton modified Broadsword. Instead of carrying two cutters and cutter modules, the hangar space has been converted to fuel tanks, and the original fuel tanks are then modified to cargo hold. As I use TNE rules and the ship hasn't been fully designed yet, details are a bit sketchy at the moment.

Is there any reason why it has to be a Broadsword? If I was a Zhodani secret agent trying to smuggle a Black Globe through a war zone, I'd choose an inoffensive civilian ship, not a para-military vessel. Less chance of being chased down and inspected by an Imperial patrol.

4) The holes comes from laser fire. It emerged at the Knorbes gas giant for refueling ending up in a major battle between two fleets during the FFW. (IMTU Knorbes orbits a GG) The ship was hit twice. The experienced Zhodani Crew managed to turn the ship towards Knorbes for a landing as it was apparent they would not be able to go anywhere else. A remote site was selected to ensure the safety of the mission.

I have a lot of background information about Knorbes. None of it canon, alas, although I hope it'll be one day. When T20 came out (yes, that long ago), I started on an adventure to submit to Hunter. It was set on Knorbes in the Year 1000. I did quite a lot of work on it before I ran out of steam, including an ftf playtest of the first two thirds of the adventure. So I have an 8000 word file full of adventure and background, plus a thick sheaf of handwritten notes.

If you're interested, I've updated the entry for Knorbes on the Traveller wiki with an updated (Year 1116) version of the background material:

http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Knorbes_(world)

I also have various maps, but they're outdated (A political map of Knorbes around 900 and a topographical map without names for Year 1000). I'll see how much work It'd be to update it to 1116. No promises, but I'll let you know if I finish it.

5) as the Zho lost the war, the remaining crew could do nothing more than wait on an opportunity to get off planet. However, as the ship needs repairs, but the local tech can't provide spare parts, the ship was sealed up, dead crew burried at a distance, and left. The Zhodani then went for a settlement a week trek away. Once in a while the Zhodani return and check up on the ship, about once a year or so.

Interesting dilemma. There are regular passenger liners coming through Knorbes (an assumption of mine based on Knorbes' position three parsecs from both Regina and Efate), but if they're all recognizable as Zhodani, they might not dare avail themselves of it (presumably they had an ample supply of Imperial currency along on the mission). But if they were trying to pass for an Imperial ship, wouldn't they have at least a few crewmen aboard who belonged to more obscure MHRs? Or even surgically altered Zhodani?

6) as the Zhodani was on a undercover mission deep inside the imperium just prior to the start of FFW, the ship has been cleaned of all Zhodani identification, no matter how trivial. The ship was equiped with a fake ID that would pass general inspection. However a proper checkup with cross-referencing with other databases (which take time as data only propagates fast as the x-boat routes go).

Wouldn't the ship have been purchased legitimately through some kind of front?

If it was built anywhere in the Imperium (as, IIRC, the Broadswords all are), I think that a thorough forensic examination would eventually identify its origin (where it was built and which of the ships built at that shipyard it is), but such an examination would take time and expertise that probably wouldn't be available. OTOH, ship's registry information may only propagate at a few parsecs per week, but they'd be forwarded as a matter of course, so the database at Regina would have all the available information by now (five years later).


Hans

 

[Zparkz]

Hans (and others)

This has been an interesting discussion so far.

The choise for a broadsword is that it is quite versatile and I find it pretty cool. Another reason is that my players have been thinking about doing some sort of mercenary campaigning and this is a pretty good way to provide a ship for that purpose, allthough they may have to do some rebuilding to fit their needs.

Most likely my players will sell their claim to someone who can put the craft to better use. However, that will not be easy as the players most likely also need to enlist help from local government to keep their find safe after it is found. The surviving Zhodani will of course notice that the ship has been found and try to secure it. Luckily for my players, the zhodani equipment has been worn down and they only have a few properly working gauss rifles. Batteries can only hold their charge that long.

Local powergroups may also want to have a say in the matter so there will be ample opportunity for conflict with both internal and external forces.

Hans, I would like to see your Knorbes material, maybe I can shamelessly steal what I need and save myself for a lot of writing.

 

[BlackBat242]

Note for the fuel quibblers... the ship came in TO refuel and ran into a battle... it was not coming FROM fueling.

Therefore, not enough fuel to jump.

Simple.

 

[Whipsnade]

Zparkz,

I'm glad to hear that our musings and quibbles have been of some use to you. There is something you must keep in mind however.

This is your scenario for your game. Whatever you do only needs to meet the needs of you and your players. Something that seems like a deal breaker to us can very well be inconsequential to you.

You make the decisions for your games. Nothing else matters.

Good luck, have fun, and please, please, please let us know how it all turns out!


Regards,
Bill