Invasion of America

[kafka47]

One thing that I found troubling about the original Twilight was how North America did not really get into the action. I would have thought that Twilight would have provided ample grounds for invasion by several small powers in a post nuclear exchange. Here I am not only talking about the Mexican but perhaps some forces from South Africa or even the Chinese coastal cities making a bid for a conquest of the American continent.

 

[Laryssa]

You know why people don't play with porcupines?
They don't like to get stuck! Most nations would reasonable count themselves lucky if they stay out of World War III. The potential gain doesn't justify the loss of millions of citizens. That is the same reason why the US didn't invade Russia when its citzens overthrew the Communist government, the US could have taken advantage of the chaos and confusion the failed Coup brought about in Russia, but it didn't mainly because of the missiles pointed at the United States. Thye Mexicans would have to be absolutely sure that the US had no missiles left. I think any nations with an ounce of sense would try very hard not to be noticed by the warring powers.
Mexico does indeed invade the US, and of course the US rolls over and "plays dead" so the mexicans can stick their tiny little swords in it and claim to have defeated it. Of course if the PCs want to drive them back into Mexico, they'll be the only ones fighting, because the scenario says the Mexicans conquer the southwest and hold on to it until 2300 at least, so good luck trying tosingle-handedly drive out the Mexican army.

 

[kafka47]

For me the motivation would be just one enormous tomb that could be there for the taking. As squads decend across the shores they find MilGov & CivGov unable to mount an effective defence. As they push ever inward they become ensnared but the promise of a technological and oil rich El Dorado just pushes them ever onward.

 

[deadlock]

Greetings and salutations,

Actually, their was a small Russian contingnent that did "invade" the United States in the adventure Lone Star and like Laryssa stated in her post, Mexico conquered the southwestern United States..

As for why no other country invaded the United States:
</font>

• With World War III taking place, other countries were more concerned with surviving since resources were/had become limited. Mexico's invasion succeeded because all they had to do was march across the border and they knew we were down to National Guard units in most places. Not knocking the NG, but they have older personnel and equipment; would be stretched to their limits trying to maintain order, torn apart by the development of the CivGov and MilGov.</font>
• Any country that had a navy still afloat would not want to waist those resources on invading a country without sufficient reconnaissance, intelligence, spare parts, or manpower.</font>
• An invading country would not need to worry about the military, but the citizenry. "You comin' ta take our stuff? Oh hell no!" I also site some of the things going on in Iraq (insurgents) and rebellious countries that were once part of the Soviet Union.</font>
• The only thing most countries were low on, fuel. No one could get to far on ethanol or methanol.</font>

Ask yourself this. If someone invaded your home, raped someone in it, frightened your child(ren) if you have them, would you not defend it/them? I would defend that which is mine knowing full well that it may cause my death in the process or after it.

Come to think of it, I need to remake escape packs.

 

[Laryssa]

Also great powers are made by the people in them, not by what they steal. A bombed out US would do Mexico little good.

Let me put it to you this way. IF most of the Americans there are dead, they would do the Mexicans little good, they get to pick over their carcusses, if they aren't dead, then they'l give the Mexicans alot of trouble.

If their is enough of them to alter the character of Mexico, then they'll want the new enlarged Mexico to join the United States. I disagree with this "roll-over and play dead" model.

 

[kafka47]

Which is why I was speculating on a Middle Power invasion attempt to go over and test the waters, if you like. The world wide shortage of oil would not stop a major uranium supplier country like South Africa nor really stop the Chinese coastal cities.

 

[deadlock]

Transportation would though. They would need sufficient personnel to crew those ships. Then they would have to worry about supplies, maintenance, sickness, and other naval ships.

And why travel to a country that is a sufficient distance when you can crush your neighbors? If I Inoticed my neighbor sending out the one deterent to me invading...

"Sally, get me gun. We be goin' ova dere to markin' territory and ah got a mean piss comin' on."

 

[Border Reiver]

Didn't the Rooskies invade Alaska as well? Reasonably successfully IIRC.

 

[deadlock]

I think you are correct, but IIRC, the invasion did not take all of Alaska.

 

[Laryssa]

Alaska would do them little good, they already got Siberia, in any case Russia is one of the main belligerants in the war. Siberia is remote, and Russia has some bigger problems with Europe and some distroyed cities. The supply line for a Siberia/Alaska campaign would be very long. Any refineries on the East coast would have been targeted, you can't run tanks on crude oil,which is what Siberia and Alaska has.

 

[jcrocker]

In the timeline they had a Mexican invasion of the southwest [leavened with the Soviet Division Cuba] and more Soviets who walked down from Alaska, through Canada, and into the US Pacific Northwest before they were rolled back a bit. If you wanted to, you could throw in a few French combat troops that pop up in Quebec after their unilateral declaration of independance.

While a few small foreign 'special operation groups' might make sense, I'd think that would be about it, really. Not many nations would have enough resources to get troops over to North America, and most of those would have bigger problems closer to home. Having those great big moats would save the people from to many foreign invasions.

Of course the designers didn't want the happy North Americans to feel totally left out - there's the MilGov/CivGov split and plenty of New America nasties to shoot at, on top of all the random marauders in the Howling Wilderness. So there's no shortage of potential misery to go around.

 

[Jamus]

very little about the t2000 version of ww3 reflects on actual military capability of the nations involved.

Mexico invading the usa?? please.
france surviving almost unscathed and becoming the world power instead of the US or china? ludicrous.

I loved t2000 as much as the next guy but I house ruled the build up to ww3 and chucked the fantasy the book presented out the window.

And for those that are interested.. ww3 starts when the Is and the Ps start lobbing nukes.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Hurm. What, no RIFTS fans here? (snickering)

I guess the real challenge for some is getting beyond the desire, and it is desire, to invade/kill/rob/maim, etc. It reads as a "best case" scenario for fans of conventional war. A true fantasy if ever there were one. Perhaps the sequel could feature war with rocks and amputated stumps. Lots of flavor in that, I reckon...

For some reason, I dont think it flies as a game. Well, unless it was a game about walking dead. It also as a game downplays somewhat the likely turn of piles of dead bodies in between the heroic fighters. I guess to be truly heroic, one has to live, eh?

 

[mbrinkhues]

Invading the US is simple. You just block their access to Asian Micro Electronics, European cars, Mexican workers and wait for 10 years.

Then you board the (sailing)ships send by the US citizens, take some 16bit microprocessors, CD Roms, glass beads etc with you and get a welcome parade.

 

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Invading the US is simple. You just block their access to Asian Micro Electronics, European cars, Mexican workers and wait for 10 years.

Then you board the (sailing)ships send by the US citizens, take some 16bit microprocessors, CD Roms, glass beads etc with you and get a welcome parade.

Easier. Send some European (preferably Swiss) chocolate to American women, and you´ll have created your own fifth column to overthrow the government.

I´ve done that, (well, the chocolate part, not the overthrow part) and it works fantastically. The key to ultimate power lies in some plain brown bars of chocolate.

 

[kafka47]

Concievably, the invasion force could go also under the cloak of reconstruction efforts. Applying selective aid to certain industries and trying to jumpstart whilst funneling resources back to the home country.

I had always imagined also in the Aftermath, the Civgov & Milgov to be split further along lines that divided America during the Civil War with Confederate States of America (CSA) forming and a Northern League forming in the North with the West going its own way...partially under Mexican orbit other states drifting away and linking with the Alberta Farmers' Coop.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by Chaos:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Brinkhues:
Invading the US is simple. You just block their access to Asian Micro Electronics, European cars, Mexican workers and wait for 10 years.

Then you board the (sailing)ships send by the US citizens, take some 16bit microprocessors, CD Roms, glass beads etc with you and get a welcome parade.

Easier. Send some European (preferably Swiss) chocolate to American women, and you´ll have created your own fifth column to overthrow the government.

I´ve done that, (well, the chocolate part, not the overthrow part) and it works fantastically. The key to ultimate power lies in some plain brown bars of chocolate. </font>[/QUOTE]You mean we can reserve the ultimate secret weapon for Canada? Good, I was fearing we'd have to use Lübecker Marzipan on the poor US citizens.

Death by pleasure is an ugly way to go.

 

[deadlock]

Greetings and salutations,

Michael, you would be slightly late with your plan. As the situation in T2000 is explained, access to Asian micro electronics, European cars, and Mexican workers (depending on where you live) would be a problem after the nukes started flying. The EMP pulses from the nukes would take care of electronics, cars, and people. Then the diseases that arise afterwards would take care of more people. By the time some adventuring soul decides to sail to another country, there's going to be a lot of thoughtr about the trip.

 

[Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen]

Check out the book 'Warday'. It relates directly to this discussion. There are (plot spoiler) descriptions of Great Britain and Japan taking over under the disguise of "reconstruction assistance" as well as a new Hispanic nation springing up in west Texas and parts of New Mexico. You must take into consideration that the book was written in the mid-eighties.

 

[laughpol]

This thread is being watched.

Closely watched.


LP