Non OTU: Is science fiction stricrtly meant for Teenage Boys?

[Bravesteel]

I have run into this, Boy have I run into this. Often the "Bad Vibes" is more pressure to be like them, to worship their gods, be it religion, politics, Money or Sports frequently a combination of things. It's all about conformity. If you turn a critical eye towards what they are interested in you will find it is no different in practice than being a SF fan.

I think you are onto something here. I would go a bit further and say that many people cannot see, cannot envision, what isn't right in front of them. That isn't to say that people that don't like SF aren't smart, far from it, but a good example would be my wife. My wife is ridiculously smart, having passed an actuarial test before she decided "no thanks" to another seven or eight tests. She, figuratively, flips out when I mention that the the observable universe is bigger than it was when I started this sentence talking about it.

If SF is for boys, or children if you like, then I guess I'm a child. Pass the lunchables, please! :coffeesip:

 

[whartung]

I don't read as much as I used to, that's for sure.

I read (most) of the first book of what became the "The Expanse" TV series. I've read a bunch of Peter Hamiltons work. The pervasive David Weber slanted Baen Style pulp-military sci fi I enjoy.

I do not patronize "sci-fi" for the sake of sci-fi. Most of the modern movies I avoid. I am very curmudgeonly and "hey, old guy" when it comes to this stuff. I don't see movies for special effects any more, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate them. Gravity was excellent. Martian was excellent. Jungle Book was outstanding. I'm not chomping at the bit for the new Alien installment. I'm stone cold to the Avatar sequels. Enjoyed both recent SW movies.

As a general rule I avoid comic book movies, specifically the "well known, DC/Marvel-verse" costumed hero stories. Most don't translate well to film, for me. I saw "Capt. America - Civil War" and, eh. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was good fun, I look forward to #2. But seeing Thor just standing in a intersection holding his hammer, frankly, looks pretty silly.

"The Expanse" is excellent on TV. I'm enjoying "Colony" on TV as well (which is borderline Sci-Fi). "Dark Matter" did not grab me. For some reason I continue to watch "The Walking Dead", I think it's just pure momentum, frankly (and its apocalyptic horror, not sci-fi). First Season of Mr. Robot was good, second season was "Oh, that was the finale?". We'll see what happens with the 3rd season. Geek hackery is what was sci-fi and is now present day.

I can't stand Big Bang Theory.

Back in the day, "sci fi" was marginal in media. So, one was inclined to consume everything they could find. Now, we're just saturated with it, and can choose to be much more selective. Plus we have old media that we can go back to. I'll re-watch LoTR several times a year (not so much The Hobbit).

Here we are, old creaky guys, talking about a 40 year old sci-fi RPG. We've all seen the graying of our community. What was once a "young guys" club has just aged to what we have today. Many have not "out grown" gaming.

We haven't "out grown" our music either. There will be guys waving their walkers and canes in the air at the next concert of my favorite Progressive Metal band.

There's a great concept in the movie "Big", where someone finally realizes that Tom Hanks character is, indeed, a child inside a mans body when they figured out the fabulously expensive toy he was designing would mostly appeal to children who happened to have the free money to pay the high price for the toy -- i.e. someone with the disposable income of a mid-30's executive. Looking at the prices for things today, we see the same thing.

$100 for that huge box of Ogre. $100 for a $3 game. Yes, its an impressive presentation but, really. It's Ogre. Clearly that game was not marketed to the same demographic the early game was.

I am out of touch in terms of anime', manga, etc. Anime' alludes me. Ghost in the shell movie coming out. "Eh". Last time I walked in to a Comic Book store, it was all middle aged men with beards, like the guys on "Comic Book Men".

They seem to be attracting new blood, I don't see the genre's dying but... maybe. Who knows. Sci fi can clearly span generations, but how much of it? People lament "why can't they make movies like the old days". Well, they do make movies like the old days. They made lots and lots and lots of crummy, forgettable movies in the "old days". Only the real gems survive. Same with Sci Fi. We remember the giants, but pretty sure there were more than, say, 30-50 books published in the golden age. Most of it, by definition, forgettable.

So, in that sense, yes, Sci Fi is targeted at teenage boys. Simply because that's who you want fueling the new wave. Get them engaged, and then tap their disposable income when they're in their 20's before they start lamenting that they don't write stuff "like the old days" again.

 

[nobby-w]

Not the rated-R movies.

Although I can only dimly remember my teenage years, I'm pretty sure most teenage boys might disagree with you.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Infojunky; we should steer clear of religion, but, needless to say I was assigned two persons who had faith on their minds and me when we gamed.

Sex and violence in measured degrees has its place, but a lack of it does not a children's genre make.

I adopted ... not King Lear ... Shakespeare's Julius Caesar to a Battlefield 2142 like setting, and threw in some starships with "SPQR" emblazoned on their hulls. It's a pretty bloody play, and throw in some advanced tanks, Traveller like ACRs, and suddenly it's a bit more palpable for today's gamer audience.

I didn't alter a single bit of dialogue, but did add a few lines ... like the tanker loader shouting "Round up!" or "SABOT! HEAP, HEAP, SABOT!" But, since there are suddenly advanced "hover tanks" or grav-gunships and advanced armor ... maybe an orbital strike or two ... does that make it a children's film?

Sorry. Had to get that out there. Appreciate the replies.

The Traveller community is pretty rockin.

 

[infojunky]

Infojunky; we should steer clear of religion, but, needless to say I was assigned two persons who had faith on their minds and me when we gamed.

It wasn't a specific jab at religion or belief, it used as a commentary device to illustrate people with strong cultural/ideological programing. For the Record a member of my Longstanding Traveller Group is just about finished with Seminary.

Sex and violence in measured degrees has its place, but a lack of it does not a children's genre make.

I adopted ... not King Lear ... Shakespeare's Julius Caesar to a Battlefield 2142 like setting, and threw in some starships with "SPQR" emblazoned on their hulls. It's a pretty bloody play, and throw in some advanced tanks, Traveller like ACRs, and suddenly it's a bit more palpable for today's gamer audience.

Heh, there are some very bad ideas embedded in that, I am amused. Damn, now the whole Richard the Third cycle just popped into my mind in the historical Deneb Sector.....

I didn't alter a single bit of dialogue, but did add a few lines ... like the tanker loader shouting "Round up!" or "SABOT! HEAP, HEAP, SABOT!" But, since there are suddenly advanced "hover tanks" or grav-gunships and advanced armor ... maybe an orbital strike or two ... does that make it a children's film?

Sorry. Had to get that out there. Appreciate the replies.

The Traveller community is pretty rockin.

Colour me, Vastly Amused!

 

[Quint]

I'm a voracious reader (though I read far less than I was when I was younger) and I enjoy SciFi and Fantasy in pretty much all media. Picking up on the notion that in the past both genres were marginalized I would agree and know that part of the reason I read and watch less is that I pickier now than I was then.

There is also a fair amount of stuff out there that I find derivative, or boring, or simply bad writing. I'm generally looking for things that actually "feel" a bit different - I also enjoy detective/crime fiction so I find myself watching a fair amount of foreign language programming on cable because it has a very different look and vibe to it.

There's a part of me that wonders what a decent translation of other language SciFi looks like? I am also enjoying some of the Netflix productions that are designed for foreign markets but that they've discovered have a viewing audience here in the states.

D.

 

[flykiller]

If SF is for boys, or children if you like, then I guess I'm a child.

well sci-fi as entertainment has certain dynamics to it. young males will go to see "young male" movies, but they will never go to see any kind of "chick flick" (they'd rather chew off an arm) - however young females will accompany young males to see "young male" movies. and young males will not go to see old-style sci-fi movies (they find it all boring) - however older males will go to see "young male" movies. so the entertainment industry makes "young male" entertainment.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'm a voracious reader (though I read far less than I was when I was younger) and I enjoy SciFi and Fantasy in pretty much all media. Picking up on the notion that in the past both genres were marginalized I would agree and know that part of the reason I read and watch less is that I pickier now than I was then.

There is also a fair amount of stuff out there that I find derivative, or boring, or simply bad writing. *snip*

D.

That used to be my big beef from day one, but nowadays I just shrug at it. My bid to try and make a series of shorts (of all genres) is over with.

One of the upshots of pre-democratized media was that you actually had to have both talent and connections to "make it big", otherwise if you just had connections, then you polluted the media-sphere with garbage.

The rest of my response will be taking in flykiller's comments.

 

[Blue Ghost]

well sci-fi as entertainment has certain dynamics to it. young males will go to see "young male" movies, but they will never go to see any kind of "chick flick" (they'd rather chew off an arm) - however young females will accompany young males to see "young male" movies. and young males will not go to see old-style sci-fi movies (they find it all boring) - however older males will go to see "young male" movies. so the entertainment industry makes "young male" entertainment.

And that's pretty much been the model for all adventure feature films. Not necessarily sci-fi, but adventure as a whole.

Growing up when I went to the theatre the average age of the audience, unless you were going to see a children's film or a film aimed at teenagers, was around 35 or so. So you had a kind of maturity to the content being presented, regardless of genre.

And it's why I became such a big classic Kirk and Spock era Star Trek fan, and why I never became a Babylon-5 nor Battlestar Galactica fan, and that was because of the attitude of presentation. There's danger, there's excitement, but there's also a sense of importance and seriousness, while at the same time not always taking itself too seriously.

Today films seemed to be aimed specifically at teenagers, and the offerings are really ... just pitiful. Glossy production values, multi-100million dollar budgets for stuff that's pretty simple and basic in terms of age specific content.

I tried watching the SyFy production of "DUNE". I thought it was okay, but it lacked a lot of energy that the 80s feature film had in spite of its other flaws.

Fortunately YouTube has shown that you can make some good scifi media without needing ba-jillions of dollars nor the need to make something an hour and a half in length with name actors.

On the book front, I haven't bought a new novel in a few years. The last time I checked the section the newer authors seemed to be really caught up in fantasy or Star-Wars-ish space opera stuff.

I'll probably post some freebee fiction on my blog at some point.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[flykiller]

the newer authors seemed to be really caught up in fantasy or Star-Wars-ish space opera stuff

because the audiences are. or, if one has a conspiratorial bent, one might allege that the publishers/directors/producers are actively and deliberately pushing this approach in spite of author intent or audience preference ....

 

[Condottiere]

Technically, the superhero genre overlaps into science fiction, as does a substantial portion of anime.

 

[flykiller]

the superhero genre overlaps into science fiction, as does a substantial portion of anime.

heh. scifi has bigger guns. and explosions, don't forget the explosions.

 

[Condottiere]

Superheroes seldom come alone, and some of their friends are fusion reactors.

 

[Blue Ghost]

It wasn't a specific jab at religion or belief, it used as a commentary device to illustrate people with strong cultural/ideological programing. For the Record a member of my Longstanding Traveller Group is just about finished with Seminary.



Heh, there are some very bad ideas embedded in that, I am amused. Damn, now the whole Richard the Third cycle just popped into my mind in the historical Deneb Sector.....



Colour me, Vastly Amused!

It was a "dream" project, if you will that'll never see the light of day like so many others. It just seemed like an amusing idea, and I also put down a few more concepts for Hamlet and a couple other plays with a sci-fi background. I also thought of some older films, and placing them in a scifi or futuristic backdrop.

"Castle Keep" is a WW2 film about a ragtag troop of US soldiers coming across a French Chateau during the battle of the bulge. Picture the Nazis as Zhodani shock troops going up against a band of ragtag combat-armor dressed Imperials, maybe change the gender of the CO (Major Falconer is played by Burt Lancaster in the movie ... I was thinking Kirsten Dunst for his role in the scifi version), and you got yourself another movie. Neither of which, in my book at least, is a children's film, nor even a pre-teen film.

I don't know ... I remember going to see "Gladiator" in the theatre, and adults brought their kids to that movie. Kids who didn't understand Comodius's mental health issues, and were laughing ... real annoying. And I'm wondering what exactly do people think a children's genre is anyway?

Sorry, just some frustrations.

Thanks all.

 

[flykiller]

And I'm wondering what exactly do people think a children's genre is anyway?

well, for some, anything that gets them closer to the kiddies ....