Islands Cluster

[Whipsnade]

"I hate to derail this great conversation, even if only for a moment, but could someone briefly explain more about the flaws in Book 6?"


Sir,

The 'flaws' are only from a Real World persepctive. First, LBB:6 doesn't produce a normal range of stars. That is, if we roll up 100 stars per LBB:6, their distribution across stellar types wouldn't match up with current observations.

Second, LBB:6 allows for planets around stars that shouldn't have any and allows for habitable planets around stars that couldn't support one.

Finally, LLB:6 produces planets that cannot easily be explained; like 1 billion people living on a vacumn world at a bronze age level of technology.

All of these 'flaws' are completely understandable and can be defended from an RPG standpoint. Traveller is about travelling to other worlds and interacting with the people there. Having only one inhabited world in a subsector full of stars without planetary systems really would make for an interesting setting, but that wasn't what the creators of Traveller were aiming for.

As for your setting, IMEHO LBB:6 is perfectly fine. If you wish; and I get no kicbacks from this! , pick up GURPS Traveller's 'First In' book. The various astronomy and planetography boffins of Our Old Game have nothing but praise for it. GT:FI will lay out how to create an interstellar subsector as realistic, or as unrealistic, as you wish!


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[jrients]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the responses to my question. I think I'll probably stick to the inaccuracies of Book 6 for my current project, but it's good to know other options are available. My cluster only has 12 worlds, so overall statistical trends will be fairly well concealed.

 

[Whipsnade]

"Now I'm curious about the "for the most part" part. Have you not pointed these demures out to me, or have I forgotten? In either case, I'd appreciate it if you could remind me (offline, since I infer this concerns the not-ready-for-prime-time material in your possession)."


Mr. Thrash,

My apologies, sir. The phrase 'for the most part' may be too strong. While I have gleefully stolen you ideas regarding the Islands being divvied up for further colonization, I have left in place a few bits from my earlier materials.

It has to do with the inhabitants of Amondiage belief, either rightly or wrongly, that their ancestors got screwed in some manner by the other colony vessels. If you look at a list of daughter, grand-daughter, and great grand-daughter colonies (there is a nice chart in TNE's RSB), Amondiage is the clear leader. (Neubayern actually has none! Another bit that impacts my Islands.)

If the Cluster had been divided into zones for future colonization and if those zones had been adhered to IMHO Admondiage would not have had so many daughters. IIRC, Admondiage built the Islands first new STL vessel and, according to TCS, owned and/or operated the most STL vessels at the time of the El Dorado incident.

IMTU's Islands, the people of Amondiage were engaged in a feverish, revenge fantasy, 'fill the Islands first', colony race that New Home and Neubayern knew nothing about. Whether this goofy idea fits a better developed, better researched, better constructed, view of the Islands is anyone's guess.

I too can't remember if we discussed all this last year while sharing Islands materials with each other. Even using the verb 'sharing' is a stretch, I passed along some sloppy, nebulous notes and you gifted me with a Islands sourcebook!

Hope that clears up any questions you may have.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Anthony]

Some comments on population distribution and balance.

Serendip Belt is specifically mentioned as a world which was at times powerful enough that other worlds have had to ally against it. With your population multipliers, it's weaker than either New Colchis or Neubayern (the most likely worlds to have allied against it, given what was taken away), making an alliance unnecessary, and implying that Elysee would probably now be controlled by New Colchis, Topas and Berlichingen by Neubayern. I'd be tempted to either bump up Serendip Belt or reduce New Colchis/Neubayern.

While I agree that 30B for Esperanza is a problem, it does have a fairly terrible location, particularly given a lack of J3 drives, and a TL difference of 11 vs 12 is easily worth a 2:1 advantage in High Guard.

 

[Whipsnade]

"Serendip Belt is specifically mentioned as a world which was at times powerful enough that other worlds have had to ally against it. With your population multipliers, it's weaker than either New Colchis or Neubayern (the most likely worlds to have allied against it, given what was taken away), making an alliance unnecessary, and implying that Elysee would probably now be controlled by New Colchis, Topas and Berlichingen by Neubayern."

Mr. Jackson,

Mr. Thrash will most likely have all the canonical bits, but Serendip Belt was slapped down twice AFAIK. The first was after the IISS mission that distirbuted jump drive technology to the other seven powers. Before that, Serendip had been the only FTL power in the Cluster. How big that FTL empire was and how closely Serendip controlled it are anyone's guess.

The second slap down occurred when the other powers combined against Serendip to strip her of the lesser systems she controlled. The Topas Concordat on planetary sovereignty was a result of this.

IMTU's Islands, these two slap downs are simply two halves of the same event; much like WW1 and WW2 can be seen as two halves of a Second Thirty Years' War.

In the first, the other seven powers assert themselves and shake off whatever shackles the Serendip FTL hegemony had placed on them. In the second, the powers involved pruned the Serendip empire further by removing her from control of those lesser systems.

The reason for the delay between the two stages is that other powers could not agree upon how to divide up the systems shorn from the Serendip empire. They eventually agreed not to divide them up and the Topas treaty was the result.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Liam Devlin]

Most excellent discussion sirs!
Now...onto track again..(forgive me)
In YTU, did you ever contemplate (once OTU stretched the 6 parsecs to 7-8 between the arms of the Imperium) a cross reft Trade route from older Imperium sectors to the BTC region?

This is where I am postulating our existing campaign in the Marches--and the intrigue/ etc that follows such a new trade rte, and how it is impacted by the 1106 civil war flare up that was TCS in the islands..

(FWIW, I am using 4GG's at St Genevieve/ but Esperanza is at 10-billion in population.).

 

[Whipsnade]

"In YTU, did you ever contemplate (once OTU stretched the 6 parsecs to 7-8 between the arms of the Imperium) a cross reft Trade route from older Imperium sectors to the BTC region?"


Mr. Devlin,

But of course! The load of fertilizer I dump on this thread will deal with Sansterre, the nascent Rift Republic, and a project simply known as 'Thule'... (cue organ music)


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Whipsnade]

"Ah, I understand. I'm always looking for flaws in my own reasoning, and I thought perhaps you'd found some that you hadn't mentioned. The differences IYTU are entirely your affair, of course."

Mr. Thrash,

Please be assured, I found *no* flaws in your reasoning and *plenty* of flaws in mine! You can see; especially given the many goofs, gaffes, and mistakes in my blathering about secondary and teriary colonization, that I applied very little reasoning to the process of creating MTU's Islands all those years ago.

It was the 80s, the 5th FW had kicked off, and our gaming group couldn't keep up with the official news. We needed another setting and we needed it in a hurry. Because I had all this TCS campaign info, plus all the wargame results, I slapped together a quick series of adventures that shanghaied the PCs to Islands. After that, I pretty much stayed one or two sessions ahead of the PCs for the rest of the 2+ year campaign.

It was slapdash, it had holes, it certainly lacked internal consistency on occasino, and it was stitched and stapled together but it held our interest and kept us gaming while exiled from the Marches and the War.

Afterwards, I tried to shape it into something a bit more professional, but the hurried, amateur, 'need a session for tonight' nature of it's creation always comes through in the end.

In a way, it resembles WoCo in that neither were detailed in a formal, check all references, make sure stuff fits, sense. The WoCo setting was never played and thus never developed beyond a clutch of notes describing the broad brush strokes of the mileau. No details were necessary because none were asked for and thus none were created.

MTU's Islands were pieced together at the gaming table and details added pretty much on the fly. There was only the skimpiest of frameworks and, as details were added, they were only cursorially examined to see how they 'fit' and impacted the whole.

Both settings approach a finished, formal, internally consistent setting from opposite sides, but both setting never really get there. It is as if our goal is making afghan throws to cover a ratty old sofa. WoCo is a basket full of yarn, some crochet hooks, and a page of instruction on how to knit and perl. MTU's Islands is a stiched together pile of various scraps of cloth, far too oddly shaped and ragged to go by the name of 'quilt', but it does fit the sofa somewhat.

If I may enlarge my sewing analogy further; the materials you are creating for the Islands will not be a cover or throw. You are precisely and superbly reupholstering the sofa so that no throw is required. Your materials will both fit and breathe new life into the old Island setting, just as new material, stuffing, and springs will do the same for an old, threadbare sofa.


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
"Mr. Devlin,

But of course! The load of fertilizer I dump on this thread will deal with Sansterre, the nascent Rift Republic, and a project simply known as 'Thule'... (cue organ music)


Sincerely,
Larsen

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Excellent!Sits back with popcorn, watches the opening credits roll.
IMTU, we are concerning ourselves with an ambitious duke (a protege of the recently elevated Archduke Dulinor-1104) seated in Cyril/P-Moibin Reft, his Tukera family (wife), and their establishment of this transreft trade rte, beginning in 1100-1101 (we currently are at 1105 campaign wise).
The tangled web of alliances of the Island subsectors, and the treaty of Topas will play a part in this, so please, feel free to dump more Whipsnadian solutions/ ideas here!

essentially we are retrofitting the rtes mentioned in the Rebellion Era that news got to the Megacorps by, save we are making the initial idea behind them part and parcel with "taming" the reft states towards Imperial client statehood, eventual membership..(unlikely in current time line, but thats MTU, following basic Imperium type strategies).

Using what had happened to the Droyne on a certain planet, we have established that if left to their devices, the Reft states would turn a blind eye on a competitive race's extinguishment. In the due course of joint establishing these rtes across Reft, a once thought empty subsector (Gome) is discovered to contain a unique dim sole star and a gas giant with one habitable moon, and several not so.

Unlike the Islanders, this system is heavy metals poor, but the unique civilization there has advanced Plasma technology to at least explore their own system..when they were discovered...

This where this touches into our current campaign..these aliens were duped and deceived, and when they fought back, interdicted (in attempts to do as the what happened to the Droyne in the islands-expunge them). This event occurs in 1101..( which the PC's have uncovered from several members of this race who were captured for study, and later escaped..)

The possible Economic impacts of this new series of Rtes/ rte across are also playing a part in this. (yes, there is some highbrow/ high caliber stuff in the campaign,but we aim to make this an epic run of it..).

Kinda complicated, hunh? (liam now returns and waits for more...)Well, we like convoluted plots!

 

[plop101]

Liam writes:

Sits back with popcorn, watches the opening credits roll.

This preview has not been rated...

Ladies and Gentlemen...

Coming to a theater near you this summer...

Robby the Robot makes his triumphant return!

voice1:My god! What are you going to do?!! voice 2: Vee are going to put Larsens and Liams brains into da robot head. voice1: NOOOOOOOO!

THE TRAVELLING BRAINACANATOR

Coming this summer--You have been warned.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Seriously though, Mr Whipsnade...
the promised bits and crunchy goodness of the alliance (as it stood in 1105 prior the civil war) would be appreciated, followed by those hints of the Nascent Rift Republic..

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
In the first, the other seven powers assert themselves and shake off whatever shackles the Serendip FTL hegemony had placed on them. In the second, the powers involved pruned the Serendip empire further by removing her from control of those lesser systems.

The problem is that there would be no need for the other seven powers to ally against Serendip, unless Serendip was just too strong for one or two powers to slap down. If you figure Serendip is equivalent (in relative power) to Germany+Austria in WWI/WWII, Esperanza equivalent to the USSR, and Neubayern/New Colchis comparable to Britain and France, Esperanza should be 10B, Serendip 5B, Neubayern and New Colchis both 3B.

 

[BMonnery]

Originally posted by Anthony:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:

Rather than a population of 'A', 10 billions, Esperanza suddenly had a population in the TENS of billions. Before, the population of the other major Island systems taken as a whole could reach ~70% of Esperanza's population. Now, the Cluster's non-Esperanzan population only added up to less than 20% of Esperanza's. Tech level no longer meant a thing, Esperanza could simply swamp all the other powers combined.

Uh...huh?

Without using pop multipliers, total 16.1B
Es: 10B (62%)
Sb: 1B (6%)
Nc: 1B (6%)
Jo: 1B (6%)
Nb: 1B (6%)
Nh: .1B (0.6%)
Sa: 1B (6%)
Am: 1B (6%)
With pop multipliers: 49.8B
Es: 30B (60%)
Sb: 5B (10%)
Nc: 1B (2%)
Jo: 4B (8%)
Nb: 6B (12%)
Nh: .8B(1.6%)
Sa: 2B (4%)
Am: 1B (2%)

Using pop multipliers doesn't make Esperanza any stronger than it already was. Mostly, what it does is scramble the balance between the other powers. It's particularly painful for New Colchis, which is not only 1/3 as powerful before, but all of its neighbors are strong. </font>[/QUOTE]Using the population numbers and economic descriptors from the URL, I get the following GDPs (Figures in CrImp, using Striker rules and TCS PPP converter)

GDP % Cluster GDP
Esperanza 156,800,000,000,000 33%
Wellington 3,744,000 0%
St. Hilaire 756,000,000,000 0%
Nebelwelt 14,400,000 0%
Serendip Belt 30,464,000,000,000 7%
Gloire 1,728,000,000 0%
Zuflucht 316,800,000,000 0%
New Colchis 76,160,000,000,000 16%
Herzenlust 100,800,000,000 0%
Bresancon 28,000,000 0%
Elysee 3,520,000,000 0%
Orphee - 0%
Joyeuse 40,800,000,000,000 9%
Quichotte 6,720,000,000 0%
Neubayern 40,800,000,000,000 9%
Schlesien Belt 8,960,000 0%
Berlichingen 129,600,000 0%
Topas 134,400,000,000 0%
Sturgeons Law 51,200,000 0%
New Home 20,736,000,000,000 4%
Colchis 3,250,000,000,000 1%
St. Geneviere 563,200 0%
Sansterre 57,120,000,000,000 12%
St. Denis 189,000,000,000 0%
Amondiage 40,800,000,000,000 9%
Acadie 2,880,000,000 0%
Achille 4,000,000 0%

TOTAL 468,442,088,467,200 100%

Esperanza has 1/3rd of the clusters GDP, and New Colchis has about half of this. However, their supported tonnage (shipyard capacity x25, roughly how much tonnage they can perform annual maintenance on) is well below the norm.

(Assumes the GM is the % of GDP spent on naval defence, as Striker says 1%, and these are ~ 1%)

Starting Fleet Fleet Tonnage
Esperanza 17,331,160 277,475,017
Serendip 2,894,244 49,975,767
New Colchis 9,151,296 49,982,875
Joyeuse 4,488,739 48,932,875
Neubayern 4,896,001 168,932,125
New Home 1,969,920 123,232,125
Sansterre 5,730,900 123,225,149
Amondiage 4,896,346 121,818,149

Bryn

 

[Liam Devlin]

Another shameless bump/reminder as enter the month of June...

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
"In YTU, did you ever contemplate (once OTU stretched the 6 parsecs to 7-8 between the arms of the Imperium) a cross reft Trade route from older Imperium sectors to the BTC region?"


Mr. Devlin,

But of course! The load of fertilizer I dump on this thread will deal with Sansterre, the nascent Rift Republic, and a project simply known as 'Thule'... (cue organ music)


Sincerely,
Larsen

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Larsen E. Whipsnade:
"In YTU, did you ever contemplate (once OTU stretched the 6 parsecs to 7-8 between the arms of the Imperium) a cross reft Trade route from older Imperium sectors to the BTC region?"


Mr. Devlin,

But of course! The load of fertilizer I dump on this thread will deal with Sansterre, the nascent Rift Republic, and a project simply known as 'Thule'... (cue organ music)


Sincerely,
Larsen

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Another shameless bump two weeks later..(from the above post)..Mr whipsnade? Calling Mr whipsnade? Hello (certain Advert comes to mind.."can you hear me now?"-lol)

 

[Liam Devlin]

Shameless Bump, now three weeks after last bump![Mr whipsnade, can you hear me now??]

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Shameless Bump, now three weeks after last bump![Mr whipsnade, can you hear me now??]

Based on a post Larsen made on the TML, he probably can't.

Cut from his last message on the TML:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

A number of personal and professional strands in my life have come together to form a hellacious knot and I'll be wrestling with said knot exclusively over the next 3-4 months. Sadly, because of the demands that will be placed on my time, I will not be able to set aside any
time for Our Olde Game. All work and no play does make one a very dull boy, but at this
time I have no real choice in the matter.
So, until the Real World begins to treat me better, I bid you all adieu.

Sincerely,
Larsen E. Whipsnade, aka Bill Cameron

Consequently, I fear it will be some time before you get the rest of your writeup.

Sorry for the bad news.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Thanx daryen. I appreciate the news. have had to scale back my postings a bit as well. hmmm. Guess we'll just extrapolate and wing it!

hang on crew.. its gonna be a bit choppy..