Jack of all Trades (which edition do you like?)

[Shonner]

I was never a fan of Jack of all Trades when I first read about the skill in 1977 Traveller. I remember dreading the idea of reading about it again in Mongoose Traveller. The skill read smoothly though. I was impressed how Jack of all Trades is used in it.

Of all the Traveller editions out there, which one uses Jack of all Trades the way you like best?

 

[Sir Brad]

I use a home brew, you Roll to se if you know (and can recall) enough about the task at hand to get -0 for the task roll.

Skills are King, but "Eddie the Expert" can bluff his way through from time to time.

 

[McPerth]

MT version for me, no doubt.

I've already given my reasons on other threads:

IMHO, already stated in other threads, the best use of JOT skill was in MT, whith the reroll capabilities according to your JOT skill. This does not give you a level 0 in all skills at JOT 3 as MgT does, allows you to have better chances also in those skills you already have and doesn't have a level limit in the usefulness of your skill (in MgT, JOT 3 or JOT 6 doesn't make much difference).

Instead of giving a -1 cummulative for each roll, the limits I used (I must state again I mostly played MT as a referee) were that if a mishap was rolled, you stopped rerolling, and all tasks so rerolled were hazardous. With those limits, I tried to reflect that unortodox solutions are always dangerous (yet they may as well save your day).

And, of course, I didn't allow JOT for all tasks, but that was difficult to rule out precisely, being mostly to referee's (so my) consideration on a case by case basis (one fact was true, though, never allowed to combat rolls).

Also, as I have expressed on other threads too, the way MT treats it gives you an advantage for it even in skills you already have, when orthodox solutions fail (the normal roll), ressourcefulness an unorthodox solutions come to play (JOT rerolls, albeit dangerous, as I told above).

 

[Chuck Anumia]

JOT skill

I also modified the JOT skill as a referee. However my modifications went more in favor of the players succeeding.
The Player with a JOT of 1 got 1 extra + to their die roll
When their skill score is 0 the +1 does not help so much. If their roll is close to succeeding they needed to role play their ideas to convince me it worked.
The Higher the JOT the more +'s they got on their rolls and better chances of success.
If their JOT level was above their skill level then I swapped their +’s for their roll.
Just my house rules. YMMV

 

[Shonner]

I also modified the JOT skill as a referee. However my modifications went more in favor of the players succeeding.
The Player with a JOT of 1 got 1 extra + to their die roll
When their skill score is 0 the +1 does not help so much. If their roll is close to succeeding they needed to role play their ideas to convince me it worked.
The Higher the JOT the more +'s they got on their rolls and better chances of success.
If their JOT level was above their skill level then I swapped their +’s for their roll.
Just my house rules. YMMV

Interesting. So you have your players do more role-play or explanation as to why they should get a +1 for their die roll if they have a low JOT. While a player with a high JOT gets a free pass and does not have to explain or role-play for their +1 and/or possible flat out swapping-in of their JOT skill level.

 

[GamingGlen]

I like MgT's version.

IMO, using JoT to increase already known skills makes a "master of none" character into a "master of all" character.

 

[BytePro]

Classic Traveller LBB1

JoT covered proficiency in ad-hoc 'skills' not in the books. At the discretion of the referee - it could be applied to things like Wilderness Survival, Basket Weaving, Sky Diving, Painting (a fake sign, for example), etc.

JoT as level-0 (max) in other skills avoided the 'no expertise' penalty of documented skills, but not all skills had such and many skills used +2 per level, avoiding JoT being overly unbalancing with actually having skill levels.

The MgT system is pretty good too, but with the attribute DMs, a JoT-3 with a 12 stat could provide the equivalent of professional level (ala Medic-2 = Doctor) expertise in numerous skills. Rolling on the Personal Development table of Scouts maximizes this potential and mustering out has a 33% chance of boosting Int/Edu.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I have used the JoT skill on occasion to allow a broad expertise, but it has to fit with their background. (Sort of a Catch Me If You Can, Frank Abagnale character)

 

[Shonner]

The MgT system is pretty good too, but with the attribute DMs, a JoT-3 with a 12 stat could provide the equivalent of professional level (ala Medic-2 = Doctor) expertise in numerous skills. Rolling on the Personal Development table of Scouts maximizes this potential and mustering out has a 33% chance of boosting Int/Edu.

Nothing to worry about since Jack of all Trades 3 in Mongoose Traveller is extremely rare.

 

[BytePro]

Aside from restriction for Connection skills, its not any more 'extremely rare' than getting any other level-3 skill for a Scout career. There are also several permutations of DM plus JoT levels that add up to level-1 equivalent for every skill... <shrug>

I prefer CTs overall.

 

[Shonner]

Aside from restriction for Connection skills, its not any more 'extremely rare' than getting any other level-3 skill for a Scout career. There are also several permutations of DM plus JoT levels that add up to level-1 equivalent for every skill... <shrug>

If you have JOAT3, and a bunch of other ifs.

 

[BytePro]

If you have JOAT3, and a bunch of other ifs.

JoT-2 and a 12 stat gets you level-1 equivalent in all skills using that stat. Chargen is nothing but a bunch of ifs.

Quite possible to get a JoT-2 and 12 stat with a 3-4 term Scout - I've done it without even using the Pers Dev table. Its even possible to do this with a single term character with 4 out of 24 die coming up right - though I'd call that very rare (unlikely for even a whole group to encounter after rolling several characters intentionally).

Without imposing term limits, however, its quite doable every so many characters for someone intentionally aiming for it.

But, as mentioned above, this is not the main reason I prefer CTs JoT, just an observation of a fact of MgT's system.

 

[McPerth]

JoT-2 and a 12 stat gets you level-1 equivalent in all skills using that stat. Chargen is nothing but a bunch of ifs.

That's why I like MT's JOT. As high skill as you might have, it never equals really having the right skill.

Aside from this, as already told, in MT there is a difference among having JOT 4 and JOT 5, and if your engineer (just to give you an example) has JOT 2 (aside from Engineering), that makes him better engineer than without it.

In most other versions, JOT has no influence in known skills, while being ressourceful (IMHO what JOT means) is useful even in what you know about.

 

[Shonner]

JoT-2 and a 12 stat gets you level-1 equivalent in all skills using that stat.

That depends on which stat is 12, and if it's 12. And an un-trained skill would be even more usefull if it was learned (+2 DM then instead of +1).

Quite possible to get a JoT-2 and 12 stat with a 3-4 term Scout - I've done it without even using the Pers Dev table. Its even possible to do this with a single term character with 4 out of 24 die coming up right - though I'd call that very rare (unlikely for even a whole group to encounter after rolling several characters intentionally).

It's also possible to get Jack of all Trades from an event table in at least one of the careers.

Without imposing term limits, however, its quite doable every so many characters for someone intentionally aiming for it.

Oh, no! There's a 60-something-year-old with Jack of all Trades 3. Look out! "Let me help you up these steps, Mr. Joat. That's some implant you got there, Mr. Joat."

But, as mentioned above, this is not the main reason I prefer CTs JoT, just an observation of a fact of MgT's system.

A fact of no quarantines in life.

 

[Shonner]

In most othr versions, JOT has no influence in known skills, while being ressourceful (IMHO what JOT means) is useful even in what you know about.

That's the other thing. What does Jack of all Trades mean to each player?

 

[Easterner9504]

MgT is excellent.

 

[aramis]

That's why I like MT's JOT. As high skill as you might have, it never equals really having the right skill.

Aside from this, as already told, in MT there is a difference among having JOT 4 and JOT 5, and if your engineer (just to give you an example) has JOT 2 (aside from Engineering), that makes him better engineer than without it.

In most othr versions, JOT has no influence in known skills, while being ressourceful (IMHO what JOT means) is useful even in what you know about.

I like that aspect, but I also allow it to be rolled to avoid an unskilled penalty - Formidable, Edu, JOT, instant, fateful, safe.
On success, one unskilled task may be tried as skilled with a level of 0.

 

[McPerth]

That's the other thing. What does Jack of all Trades mean to each player?

You're right. Once more we should define the worlds we're using if we want to understand each other:

I see JOT as the capability to improvise and use unorthodox means to attain the desired goal when the orthodox ones are not available or they fail (on a practical basis, not on a strategical one). McGiver would be (IMHO) a good example of high JOT skill.

I like that aspect, but I also allow it to be rolled to avoid an unskilled penalty - Formidable, Edu, JOT, instant, fateful, safe.
On success, one unskilled task may be tried as skilled with a level of 0.

I never liked the idea to use it as a substitute for skills you don't have, but as a coadjuvant to the one you have or to the unskilled use, as, IMHO, it does not represent knowledge (that would be covered by EDU stat), but the capability to improvise (see above).

In any case, let me share the thoughts your post took to my mind (little more than random thoughts):

- Being a formidable task (15+) its use in this way is very limited, as you need a +3 modifier to have the slightest chance of success (and I guess it's not elegible for cautious task).

- See that you could use determination instead of EDU, meaning both the influence of reasoning to understand what you have to do (INT), more tan having previous knowledge (EDU), that you don't have, as you don't have the skill, and the daring to try and self-confidence(so determination and not bare INT).

- To use it that way, I'd make it easier than formidable (probably difficult) but uncertain, making total failure represent that the caracter believes he will be able to do it (so commiting him to try), but using the untrained modifier.

- Can a task be at once fateful (a mishap is guaranteed if the task fails) and safe (mishap is never damaging, and on a fumbe mishap is superficial)? I see both labels as quite contradictory: on a fail there's a undamaging mishap confused, and even on a fumble damage is limited.

 

[Shonner]

McGiver would be (IMHO) a good example of high JOT skill.

My idea of Jack of all Trades is nothing at all like that. I can see where problems would start with players when trying to use that skill.

 

[McPerth]

My idea of Jack of all Trades is nothing at all like that. I can see where problems would start with players when trying to use that skill.

That's why is good to define the terms .

Now you know how I see it, would you be so kind to define how do you, so we could achieve better understanding of each other POV?