Jack of all Trades (which edition do you like?)

[Shonner]

That's why is good to define the terms .

Now you know how I see it, would you be so kind to define how do you, so we could achieve better understanding of each other POV?

The old phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none."

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

Sifu strolls in...

The old phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none."

Indeed. May I snip some pertinent quotes from TRAVELLER BOOK 1?

"Jack of All Trades: The individual is proven capable of handling a wide variety of situations, and is resourceful in finding solutions and remedies..."
"...the referee should assume that the person has studied independently at some time or has seen such a crisis previously and knows something of what to do..."
"...When using jack of all trades skill, the referee should also consider appropriate personal characteristics (intelligence, education), availability of equipment (drugs, medical instruments), and other factors (weather, shelter, the specific situation)..."

Now, this is not bragging. I am only giving an example.

I have been an electrician for twenty-six years. I have been exposed to a great variety of activities and locations. Everything from houses to commercial buildings, industrial plants, oilfield, now locomotives.

This is not my first rodeo. Every day I have no idea what is coming at work. I could be called away at a moment's notice to perform some repair or assist someone else. Lucky for me I do not scare easy.

My current work experience is a personification of Jack-O-Trades skill.

 

[McPerth]

Now, this is not bragging. I am only giving an example.

I have been an electrician for twenty-six years. I have been exposed to a great variety of activities and locations. Everything from houses to commercial buildings, industrial plants, oilfield, now locomotives.

This is not my first rodeo. Every day I have no idea what is coming at work. I could be called away at a moment's notice to perform some repair or assist someone else. Lucky for me I do not scare easy.

My current work experience is a personification of Jack-O-Trades skill.

But in this case, JOT will be an enhancer for your electronic skill, not used by its own. And only MT reflects this (allowing you retries), while in most other Traveller versions, as you have electronic skill, your JOT, as high as it might be, would not be factored into the task.

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

But in this case, JOT will be an enhancer for your electronic skill, not used by its own. And only MT reflects this (allowing you retries), while in most other Traveller versions, as you have electronic skill, your JOT, as high as it might be, would not be factored into the task.

Agreed. I must also add in that I exercise other skills as well. Admin for organizing scribbled work notes, Instruction and Liaison for teaching a specific technique to new workers, even Leader skill (of a sort) for giving 'motivational speeches' at team meetings. Factor in Intel and Educ as well for remembering details, finding parts and tools in obscure locations...it all sort of blends together.

For some reason, I could not wrap my head around CTs version. It started off great, but was hobbled by the restrictions at the end. I really had no use for it until MT modified it. Now it seems my interpretation is morphing again. Keep up the conversation, folks!

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

What happened?

I thought the discussion was going well, and it just died.

Let me add a final note before I step aside.
By all means, the character must role play his way out of any situation requiring JOT skill. All the referee needs to do is say that 'standard procedure XYZ will not work' and smile.

 

[McPerth]

I like that aspect, but I also allow it to be rolled to avoid an unskilled penalty - Formidable, Edu, JOT, instant, fateful, safe.
On success, one unskilled task may be tried as skilled with a level of 0.

I never liked the idea to use it as a substitute for skills you don't have, but as a coadjuvant to the one you have or to the unskilled use, as, IMHO, it does not represent knowledge (that would be covered by EDU stat), but the capability to improvise (see above).

In any case, let me share the thoughts your post took to my mind (little more than random thoughts):

- Being a formidable task (15+) its use in this way is very limited, as you need a +3 modifier to have the slightest chance of success (and I guess it's not elegible for cautious task).

- See that you could use determination instead of EDU, meaning both the influence of reasoning to understand what you have to do (INT), more tan having previous knowledge (EDU), that you don't have, as you don't have the skill, and the daring to try and self-confidence(so determination and not bare INT).

- To use it that way, I'd make it easier than formidable (probably difficult) but uncertain, making total failure represent that the caracter believes he will be able to do it (so commiting him to try), but using the untrained modifier.

- Can a task be at once fateful (a mishap is guaranteed if the task fails) and safe (mishap is never damaging, and on a fumbe mishap is superficial)? I see both labels as quite contradictory: on a fail there's a undamaging mishap confused, and even on a fumble damage is limited.

Addition to the posted thoughts:

- (specific to MT) By allowing JOT to be used to avoid unskilled penantly, it becomes (if successful) equivalent to observation, so a player with high JOT is likely to acheve ATs in unknown skills, and risks ending up having quite a lot of skills at level 0 (and working them up from there).

 

[aramis]

Determination is Int + End, not Int+Edu - it's not comparable.

I don't allow JOT to grant AT's, except to JOT.

Note that to get a level 0 equivalent, that's any of:
Edu 1-4, JOT 3+
Edu 5-9, JOT 2+
Edu 10-14, JOT 1+
Edu 15-19†, JOT 0‡

Fateful also implies no retries, no matter what your determination and JOT levels, as well as an automatic mishap. Fail the task, fail to avoid the penalty as the automatic superficial mishap.

And the task is derived from the Computer Assistance one, which is Formidable, Int, Edu, 1 hour. (MTPM 15)

Safe: With some tasks, if a mishap occurs, it is never damaging:
such tasks are safe. On a safe task, if a fumble occurs,
the mishap type is always Superficial (no roll is needed on the
Mishap Table).

Fateful: For some tasks, a mishap is guaranteed if the task
fails (don’t confuse this with hazardous, which indicates the
severity of mishap): when this is the case, the task is fateful.
“To avoid a mishap” situations are good examples of fateful
tasks because if they fail, the mishap has not been avoided.

(MTPM 13)​

† note that to get Edu 16+, either you aren't human, or you have brain enhancements of some kind.
‡ I've only had one character with JOT 0 - he'd had a 1, but ran up against the skill level cap, and reduced JOT. He was, however, Edu 15.

 

[McPerth]

Determination is Int + End, not Int+Edu - it's not comparable.

You're right, but what I meant in my post is that I see more logical to use INT (reasoning and understanding) than EDU (previous knowledge) with JOT (due to how I understand it, probably, see previous posts), not that determination implies both. I used determination instead raw INT to represent the daring and self-conficence involved on it too, not so reflected in raw INT. Sorry I my wording was ambiguous.

I don't allow JOT to grant AT's, except to JOT.

OK then, it's an exception to rules then, as, per page 41 MTM ATs may be given if the player has succeed on a task that would require a skill he does not have.

Note that to get a level 0 equivalent, that's any of:
Edu 1-4, JOT 3+
Edu 5-9, JOT 2+
Edu 10-14, JOT 1+
Edu 15-19†, JOT 0‡

OK, that's the +3 modifier I told about...

See that if you use determination instead of EDU, the stat modifier would probably be less important, so requiring more JOT skill, as you'd need 2 stats high and EDU is the easier to raise while chargen, if attending to school or by MOB

Fateful also implies no retries, no matter what your determination and JOT levels, as well as an automatic mishap. Fail the task, fail to avoid the penalty as the automatic superficial mishap.

Only a fumble will mean a superficial mishap in this case, as any higher result would be a non damaging (I understand NE) mishap.

And the task is derived from the Computer Assistance one, which is Formidable, Int, Edu, 1 hour. (MTPM 15)

Safe: With some tasks, if a mishap occurs, it is never damaging:
such tasks are safe. On a safe task, if a fumble occurs,
the mishap type is always Superficial (no roll is needed on the
Mishap Table).

Fateful: For some tasks, a mishap is guaranteed if the task
fails (don’t confuse this with hazardous, which indicates the
severity of mishap): when this is the case, the task is fateful.
“To avoid a mishap” situations are good examples of fateful
tasks because if they fail, the mishap has not been avoided.

(MTPM 13)​

IMHO, computer augmntation/assistence is more likely to someone with instruction skill leading you to perform the task, while JOT is more McGiver style solutions (ingenuity, not applying known solutions).

BTW, I'm afraid you cite the wrong book in your quotes. They are from MT:RM, not MTM (pages are OK, in RM). Just for people that wants to review them.

 

[aramis]

Good catch. Happy fingers at 0200hrs...

 

[McPerth]

The old phrase "Jack of all trades, master of none."

As I see, the main difference we have on JOT skill is about definition.

Understood as you do (or at least as I understand you: small knowledge about many things), the use of the skill in MgT or T4 is (IMHO) the logical one. Understood as I do (ingenuity and improvisation capability for unorthodox practical solutions), the logical one is (IMHO again) that on MT.

 

[bromdenlong]

I only know CT. My homebrew is to allow rerolls on skills one doesn't have. If the character has JoT-1, that character gets one unskilled reroll per gaming session or character-day. If JoT-5, five unskilled rerolls per gaming session or character-day. The player may use as many rerolls as they like on any given attempt.