Jump Space:Run Silent-Run Deep

[shadowcat20]

Maybe there is a High and Low in jumpspace.

Low jumpspace, Normal fuel costs with no danger...standard merchant fare.

High Jumpspace. Half fuel costs but unstable sailing and possable serious in/out time differences like the Gateway series. 2 days, or 2 months...who knows. Extra fuel saved would cover power...but food on the otherhand....Air may also be an issue so take along extra scrubbers.

Only people covering long distances or trying to save fuel costs would try it. Make it iffy enough that even military operations would have to be desperate trying to stretch their range or escaping to go for it.

High jump may allow leaving the ship to check out drifting hulks and other odd things though. Maybe even planets with odd physics and life forms.

Figure low jump is just skimming the edge of the high universe hence the safety factor and reliable jump times (our physic rules).

 

[mike wightman]

How about depth instead?

The deeper you dive into jumpspace the faster you travel relative to the real universe.

But you are further away from the jumpspace/realspace boundary; there are more whirlpools, spouts, undercurrents, rapids, monsters etc...

 

[Reban]

How about depth instead?

The deeper you dive into jumpspace the faster you travel relative to the real universe.

But you are further away from the jumpspace/realspace boundary; there are more whirlpools, spouts, undercurrents, rapids, monsters etc...

Thats similar to Weber's Honor Harrington Universe and very similar to Brin's Uplift Universe where there are different levels A to E. Different levels have different Characteristics and interactions with real space but simply put the lower you go the more ground you can cover. In Traveller terms though E level hyperspace would be highly reactive to Psionic potential and strong thoughts and emotions could manifest as real creatures and terrain if the vessel isn't properly shielded.

You could treat jumpspace like an ocean and have different layers and regions. passing through a layer might require a navigation check to successfully cross the boundary. Like submarine sonar different layers might be opaque to sensors allowing ships to hide above or below layers. Different layers or regions might be home to different "Jump-life".

 

[leo knight]

This morning, I woke up thinking about this topic. I jotted down a few ideas for random, Jumpspace encounters.

High flux, arrive 1D6 days early
Low flux, arrive 1D6 days late
Turbulence, END save or spacesick

Tapping on hull, anobody home?
Scraping on hull, let us in!
Whispered voices
Garbled, babbling voices
Creepy choir, like "2001" monolith
Angelic choir
Siren song, come to us!

Visions, I see dead people!
Visions, religious ecstasy
Visions, "Altered States"
Visions, Hell!

Scenic view, cloudscapes, a la "Wrath of Khan"
Scenic view, colors! Woah, Dude!
Scenic view, frozen lightning

Encounter, derelict ship, Marie Celeste
Encounter, ghost ship, Flying Dutchman
Jumpspace mantas
Jumpspace whales
Jumpspace dragon
Mynocks, chewing on the power cables, arrive 1d6 days late

Legend, Sargasso of Space

If you use say, a 1 in 6 chance of an encounter, I don't think these add any appreciable risk to a trip. Most could be used with the original rules, as well.

Enjoy!

 

[leo knight]

A tale of a ghost ship, Dawson's Christian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fIu2OdWn8&index=43&list=FLaGqg4mYEDM_2fEuHIONqRA

Jayme Dawson was the Captain of the Christian and her crew,
And he flew and fought the Christian in the War of '82.
Now the Christian was the tightest ship 'tween here and Charlemagne,
And the crew of Jayme Dawson was the same.
On patrol in sector seven, keeping watch on Barber's sun,
They were jumped by three light cruisers though they wern't a match for one.
As they came to general quarters and they sent out the alarm,
Dawson's crew was sure they'd finally bought the farm.
No one living saw that battle though the fleet was quick to leave.
When they reached the site they found a scene no sane man could believe.
Dead in space lay three light cruisers, cut to ribbons all around,
But no sign of Dawson's Christian could be found.

There are stories of the Dutchman, the Celeste and Barnham's Pride,
There are stories of the Horseman and the Lady at his side,
But the tale that chills my spirit, more because I know it's true,
Is the tale of Jayme Dawson and his crew,
Yes, the tale of Dawson's Christian and her crew.
​

(instrumental interlude)
I was second mate on Hera's Dream, a freighter of the line.
We were shipping precious metals to the colony on Nine.
It was on the second watch of that most uneventful flight,
When the pirate ships appeared out of the night.
Now to me there was no question, for they had us four to one,
And you can't fight dirty pirates when your freighter has no gun.
So we stood by to be boarded by a party yet unseen,
When another ship appeared upon our screen.
First we thought it just a pirate, but the vector was all wrong.
Then we thought it might be rescue, but the signal wasn't strong.
When she didn't answer hailing, we all felt an unknown dread,
For we saw her shields were up and glowing red.
Now the courage of that single ship is shown by very few,
But we never knew a ship could fly the way the stranger flew.
Never fearing guns or numbers, like a tiger to its meat,
The stranger then attacked the pirate fleet.

And the strangers beams burned brighter than all beams I'd seen before.
And the strangers shields were harder than the heart of any whore.
As the battle rent the eather, while we watched and shook our heads,
The pirate ships were cut to bloody shreds.
The pirate ships were cut to bloody shreds.
​

Just as quickly as it started then the fighting was all done.
For the pirate fleet was shattered and the stranger's ship had won.
Though we tried to call and thank her, not an answer could we draw,
Then she dropped her shields and this is what we saw.
There were thirty holes clear through her and a gash along one side,
And we knew that when it happened, that no crew were left alive.
For the markings all said Christian, deep inside us each one knew,
'Twas the tomb of Jayme Dawson and his crew.
Now instead of flying off, the stranger then began to fade,
First the hull, and then the bulkheads as we cowered there afraid,
For as the Christian disappeared, the last to slip from view,
Were the bones of Jayme Dawson and his crew.
Yes, the bones of Jayme Dawson and his crew.

There are stories of the Dutchman, the Celeste and Barnham's Pride,
There are stories of the Horseman and the Lady at his side,
But the tale that chills my spirit, and I swear to God it's true,
Is the tale of Jayme Dawson and his crew,
Yes, the tale of Dawson's Christian and her crew.
​

 

[selunatic2397]

That was an awesome song...thanks for both the link and the lyrics!!!!!

 

[Vladika]

A tale of a ghost ship, Dawson's Christian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fIu2OdWn8&index=43&list=FLaGqg4mYEDM_2fEuHIONqRA

The kind of post I'd like to see more of!

 

[Patron Zero]

This somewhat sums up the element of danger I was suggesting.

*cue the ring modulator for appropriate backing sounds*

 

[wbyrd]

The kind of post I'd like to see more of!

A tale of a ghost ship, Dawson's Christian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3fIu2OdWn8&index=43&list=FLaGqg4mYEDM_2fEuHIONqRA

One of my favorites and on my playlist to get me into a sci-fi gaming mood

there are a few stories I have seen that had alternate hyperspace, including strange encounters and potential hostiles.

The Game of rat and Dragon was an interesting one
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29614/29614-h/29614-h.htm


For one of my alternate Traveller based games I created a version of hyperspace that I kit-bashed from several ideas that I liked in various movies and wild flights of daydreaming.

http://pax-belum.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Hyperspace

Dusty, Dirty, and dangerous is the basic description, full of debris, floating irregular landmasses, and hungry things that want to eat something/anything/everything. the change from vanilla you pop into jump and pop out into real space some time later altered the games greatly...usually for the more entertaining...just getting to a destination became an adventure at times.

I originally created it to alter the scale of combat from laser sniping at vast distances to close in an brutal ship to ship combat. Instead it became a regular setting for adventures, plots, and two of my groups spent more time in hyperspace than real space. Players wanted to play around see the sights go swimming with the space critters...instead of occasionally playing hide and seek with larger more powerful warships.

 

[leo knight]

I was thinking of "The Game of Rat and Dragon" too!

The Graveyard of Spaceships, courtesy of "Space:1999." The fun begins about 14 minutes in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzx_yqU1ZGw

Enjoy!

 

[Patron Zero]

I'm now wondering if adapting J-space as such might open some new prospects of revenue and employment for those daring enough to pursue such.

Perhaps a new sort of prospector that seeks out ultra-rare minerals or elements only found to exist in jump space, a given that the 'Seeker' variant of a standard Scout-Courier might appear very different than the sleek wedge-shaped lifting body we all know.

Aside from harvesting new materials from the depths, the possibility if not probability of salvaging lost vessels or their cargoes might draw intrepid brave souls to trawl the eddies for flotsam and jetsam. Dedicated missions might seek the 'Sargasso' seas in search of yet-cataloged star-traveling vessels, such funded by the Imperium and private sector interests alike.

For those really adventurous souls, a chartered 'hunt' into J-space to confirm rumors of the whispered-about beasts that swim in the deep channels. One can only hope said parties have brought a big enough boat.

 

[Enoki]

Personally, I like to think of jump space as something akin to a gravity well, like this:



Because gravity / mass affects jumping I require ships to come to a halt to jump. This is because momentum creates gravity of a sort and I'm assuming that the ship's programming for jumps is:

A. Canned, generic programming.
B. Not capable of taking into account things like the momentum of the ship any more than the presence of a gravitational field like a planet.

This means that navigation, piloting, and engineering skills have more impact on jumping safely.
It also means that the pirates chasing you are going to get an easy target if you stop to jump safely...

The way I would explain all of this is that jumping is entering something like a gravity well. Traversing the well takes a week. The reason you are limited to jump 6 with this method is that you can only stretch the fabric of space-gravity so far before it "tears."
When you enter the well it collapses / closes behind you and a week later you pop out the other end into normal space.

I know, it's all handwavium and PFM (Pure F***ing Magic) but it sounds plausibly good...

 

[SpaceBadger]

That raises the question of "stopped with respect to WHAT?" since your ship will never be at rest with respect to all the different objects near and far.

I use "stopped with respect to whatever object is currently exerting the strongest gravitic pull on the ship" since it seems to me that would be most relevant.

 

[epicenter00]

My biggest 'complaint' with Traveller, or for that matter the overall concept of hyperspace as presented in most fiction, films and television series, has been the region so navigated is an empty void without feature or possible hazards.

It might just make that one week near-snooze ride on cruise-control more of a possible white-knuckle experience and bring jump space into being part of the adventure.

In my experience...

Natural hazards (storms, freezing sub-zero temperatures, extreme heat, and so on) bore players at best and frustrate them at worst. Nothing gets the players of games I've run to roll their eyes faster than the word "misjump." In the Warhammer 40k RPG I play in, when the poor girl running it announced, "Your ship is caught up in a Warp Storm and.." and one of the players could not keep his politeness filter working and finished her sentence with, "And you guys are blown off-course to another planet?" the laughing was so hard she promised that if we just nodded our heads this time she'd never do it again.

Similarly, rules for exposure and "combat against the elements" really bore the living daylights out of players. If they can get injured or die, it frustrates them. If the hazards become something that can be planned for and dealt with the proper precautions, it just becomes background buzz.

I think if you want to make things more interesting, the potential for more interaction needs to be there.

As cliched as it is, space monsters might be one thing though of course, if crazy starship-munching monsters exist in jumpspace, that really radically changes the flavor Traveller.

I think the better solution would be to change jumpspace so that it is possible to detect other starships in jumpspace and intercept them - it wouldn't be easy perhaps, but it would be possible. There's a number of ways to do this, but the possibility of encountering other starships in jumpspace and interacting with them would make Jumps more interesting to players.

Perhaps there's "layers" of Jump space that correspond to Jump drive numbers. Each layer is faster than the layer before it but requires improved jump equipment to navigate it safely. Perhaps because the higher number layers are more energetic, jump-sensors don't work as well. A ship can "dive deep" with a Jump-1 ship going to Jump-2 temporarily to evade pursuers, but can't stay there for long because the pressures of the Jump-2 will eventually destroy the ship. I'm not sure that's a really viable idea, but just a thought.

 

[Ulsyus]

David Weber's Honorverse had gravity waves in hyperspace that could prove very dangerous to a ship whose navigation took it too close. Ships use the same sensors as normal space but with greatly reduced range.

So the idea of having some sort of topography in jumpspace therefore giving the players something to do beside just lounge around is not a bad idea.

That sort of thing could increase a vessel's crew requiremtns - wouldn't you want to have a pilot and navigator on deck at all times to navigate through jumpspace?

 

[mike wightman]

You'd certainly want someone on bridge watch 24/7

"What jump space iceberg...."

 

[aramis]

In my experience...

Natural hazards (storms, freezing sub-zero temperatures, extreme heat, and so on) bore players at best and frustrate them at worst. Nothing gets the players of games I've run to roll their eyes faster than the word "misjump." In the Warhammer 40k RPG I play in, when the poor girl running it announced, "Your ship is caught up in a Warp Storm and.." and one of the players could not keep his politeness filter working and finished her sentence with, "And you guys are blown off-course to another planet?" the laughing was so hard she promised that if we just nodded our heads this time she'd never do it again.

Similarly, rules for exposure and "combat against the elements" really bore the living daylights out of players. If they can get injured or die, it frustrates them. If the hazards become something that can be planned for and dealt with the proper precautions, it just becomes background buzz.

I think if you want to make things more interesting, the potential for more interaction needs to be there.

As cliched as it is, space monsters might be one thing though of course, if crazy starship-munching monsters exist in jumpspace, that really radically changes the flavor Traveller.

I think the better solution would be to change jumpspace so that it is possible to detect other starships in jumpspace and intercept them - it wouldn't be easy perhaps, but it would be possible. There's a number of ways to do this, but the possibility of encountering other starships in jumpspace and interacting with them would make Jumps more interesting to players.

Perhaps there's "layers" of Jump space that correspond to Jump drive numbers. Each layer is faster than the layer before it but requires improved jump equipment to navigate it safely. Perhaps because the higher number layers are more energetic, jump-sensors don't work as well. A ship can "dive deep" with a Jump-1 ship going to Jump-2 temporarily to evade pursuers, but can't stay there for long because the pressures of the Jump-2 will eventually destroy the ship. I'm not sure that's a really viable idea, but just a thought.

I disagree with much of this.

Poorly done, such rules bore many players.
Properly done, they can be quite fun.

After all, Hex-crawling is on the rise again amongst the OSR crowd, and they're a growing movement.

And TOR has an excellent set of rules for facing down the elements during travel - simplified and abstracted, and creating semi-random encounters that test their characters' skills (rather than always being monsters). Players don't seem to mind that at all...

I think you're overgeneralizing your own preferences and experiences and giving REALLY bad advice therefrom. I know some players hate hex-crawling, but I know many others who love it.

The key is that the risks need to be seen as something that players can interact with, that don't routinely prevent them from pressing on, and that the characters can be prepared for; they also need to take minimal resolution time.

 

[Tiikeri]

Hi everyone, I'm new to CotI, first post!

In my experience...

Natural hazards (storms, freezing sub-zero temperatures, extreme heat, and so on) bore players at best and frustrate them at worst. Nothing gets the players of games I've run to roll their eyes faster than the word "misjump." In the Warhammer 40k RPG I play in, when the poor girl running it announced, "Your ship is caught up in a Warp Storm and.." and one of the players could not keep his politeness filter working and finished her sentence with, "And you guys are blown off-course to another planet?" the laughing was so hard she promised that if we just nodded our heads this time she'd never do it again.

I find that this type of introduction denies players their sense of agency and they generally react poorly to perceived railroading.

Similarly, rules for exposure and "combat against the elements" really bore the living daylights out of players. If they can get injured or die, it frustrates them. If the hazards become something that can be planned for and dealt with the proper precautions, it just becomes background buzz.

I think if you want to make things more interesting, the potential for more interaction needs to be there.

I agree that combat against the elements has to be handled carefully, because it is intrinsically boring. It has to serve the plot and not only as a goad to get the players to do something like take shelter in the mysterious old base. It's bound up with how much the players think about how their characters experience the adventure and how deeply they roleplay their characters. No one wants his character to die because of a string of bad die rolls in the desert, and in a session where people only have 4 or 6 hours they want to get to the action. If the players are pretty deep roleplayers, a dangerous environment can lend itself well to rping out the ordeal, like the scene in Lawrence of Arabia where his troops move through the Nefud desert, one falls behind, drops his weapons and gear in a desperate attempt to keep going, then sees Lawrence emerge from the desert haze to rescue him. Dealing with an hostile environment has the potential to draw characters closer together through the shared ordeal. The challenge is to think of realistic significant consequences that won't kill the characters and not unduly strain the players' suspension of disbelief even though they know you're probably not going to let them drown because they failed their swim rolls.

This also touches on this thread about characters wearing combat armor whenever they leave the ship. http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=28679Characters wouldn't do that because it most likely gets uncomfortable after an hour and leads to frequent cleaning and maintenance on the suits because they wear it so much. Do they really want to put their catheters in or put on whatever method the suits use to get rid of waste every time they leave the ship? I would hope that those characters have better things to do. Many players don't think about things like that, so wearing combat armor all day for no reason, or a hostile environment suit, or trudging through the snow on a frozen ice world with proper gear is as easy as a shorts and t-shirt stroll unless the players rp it differently. It can very easily become background buzz and lead to players saying "Ok, we get there." even if the referee has put significant effort into what he considers an interesting environment.

 

[Carlobrand]

...In the Warhammer 40k RPG I play in, when the poor girl running it announced, "Your ship is caught up in a Warp Storm and.." and one of the players could not keep his politeness filter working and finished her sentence with, "And you guys are blown off-course to another planet?" the laughing was so hard she promised that if we just nodded our heads this time she'd never do it again. ...

So, the gamemaster introduces an apparently not uncommon random event, the players burst into extended laughter, and the gamemaster promises never to introduce that event again. Hmmm - that tells me more about the dynamic of that group than about the entertainment value of that event.

Random events are a reality of almost every role playing game I've ever heard of. If, like misjump, they occur because of some factor the player controls, then the player had best just suck it up and deal with it: his failure to buy decent fuel or keep his engines maintained is not the gamemaster's problem. If they are truly out of the player's control, they still represent an opportunity for the player to meet some challenge. How much roleplaying are they doing if the players need you to build them a freeway straight to the big bad so they don't have to deal with any "boring" distractions along the way? How formulaic will it become if the players confine the gamemaster to a narrow script of options because they can only get their heads in the game when they're shooting something?

Maybe it's partly the gamemaster's fault - maybe the random event is being presented so mundanely that it fails to catch the players' interest. Maybe not; maybe the players are so focused on the goal that they can't have fun playing the trip. My sense is it's as much a question of presentation or attitude as about the event.

And, yes, if crazy starship-munching monsters exist in jumpspace, it would radically change the flavor of Traveller - but, as with the apparently despised warp storm, if it is not handled adroitly by the gamemaster then the flavor will range from bland to sour. The two keys to roleplay are the ability of the gamemaster to tell the story and the ability of the players to put themselves in the story.

 

[Ulsyus]

And TOR has an excellent set of rules for facing down the elements during travel - simplified and abstracted, and creating semi-random encounters that test their characters' skills (rather than always being monsters). Players don't seem to mind that at all...

I'm with Aramis on this. The TOR system of having a series of roles in a traveling party (a what??) that perform specific tasks (pathfinding, hunting for food, finding shelter, scouting, etc) means that everyone involved has an important role that has rolls which impact on the whole group.

I'm about to try a similar thing in my new game with the pilot, the astrogator, the engineer, the signaler, etc. Some things will become regular, but that doesn't mean easy.

Don't you think we should make travel in space a dangerous and involving thing to do, or do you prefer to use "well, after leaving the starport and exiting the system and spending time in jump then transiting into the system, you land at the next startport"?