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Jumpspace musings

Just a couple of things that have occurred to me.

Firstly, if you were to eject someone / something from the ship during jump what would happen to it? I can see a number of possibilities:

It emerges from jump at some point along the route (either whole or as its constituent atoms) because it is no longer being driven by the jump drive.

It emerges at the exit point with the ship, because the jump drive only provides the initial shove to get it into J-space.

It gets stuck in J space, because you need to actively leave J-space. Meaning whatever beings live there possibly getting annoyed as hell with "the beings from another dimension" creating pollution as they routinely empty their septic tanks & throw out the odd pirate.

Secondly, if you have an open frame ship (many are IMTU) how are the boats stuck on the outside covered by the lanthanum grid? Would they need to have their own built into their hulls? Is it possible to cover them in some sort of mesh? Would the ships grid extend far enough to cover them anyway?
 
Based upon what is in MegaTraveller, including in DGP's Starship Operator's Manual, anything contacting the field edge is dissociated into subatomic particles, and THEN drops out of J-space after a week as a coud of subatomic particles; occasionally, larger chunks precipitate out.

Stick your hand into the field-edge, and pull back a stump.

External small craft are equipped with a grid, and the ship's jump drive is programmed for jumping with or without it.
 
Hi, long-time lurker but yes, if anything living somehow breaches the jump-field then it's bye-bye. Do remember a fair while back a PC fighting a nog-bad, both in vacc-suits on the ship's hull just as the ship entered jump-space. Of course, the PC was in contact with the people on the bridge and knew what was going to happen and at the last moment made sure he was within the confines of the jump-field as the ship jumped. The nog-bad wasn't so lucky ... now, whether it's canon that the PC should survive, I don't know and can't remember, but it was just such a cool way of disposing of a foe that I let it ride. Mind you, he still had to get back inside and I made sure he paid the price for a) seeing a body that was ripped apart in such a fashion and b) being that close to jump-space and 'seeing things'. Sanity roll anyone ?

Anders
 
I could be misremembering or it could have been some non-canon work, but ISTR that no ship that has ever exited jumpspace had ejected anything and no ship that has entered jumpspace with the intention of trying to do so (for scientific purposes) has ever been heard from again.


Hans
 
If it stays within the jump bubble (~1m), it'll emerge intact along with the ship, otherwise it'll be atomised.

Carried craft can have their own hull grid, or be covered by a jump net.
 
I recall a Traveller News Service that recounted an individual who experienced a brief exposure to jumpspace. He survived and suffered a temporary loss of equilibium.
 
My takes:

If you were to eject someone / something from the ship during jump what would happen to it?

I foresaw a problem of PCs and others too easily disposing of problems by simple shoving them out the airlock while in jumpspace. So I ruled that yes you can, and it will be utterly destroyed* when it contacts/crosses the boundary BUT the manner of that destruction is akin to a matter/antimatter annihilation. In other words there will be a large explosion in very close proximity of the hull. The size being dependent on how much stuff makes contact. The whole "grey shifting pattern" is a result of microscopic sublimation and trace gases migrating from the hull throughout jump and are not a concern. A bigger mass and resulting explosion though will at the very least risk hull damage to the jump grid in the location, which can cause a cascade of more material (your ship) contacting the boundary, resulting in more explosions, etc. It will very probably induce a misjump. And may quite likely result in the total destruction of the ship.

* so far as anyone knows, there is a possibility it may exist in the jumpspace dimension but it's unlikely it would be recognizable or in any fashion viable due to the alien physics

My take above is largely from canon game background, some concerning experiments with launching ships from other ships while in jump. They all ended badly for the launched ships, and usually for the launching ship as well. Experiments were halted.

Nothing emerges from jump at some point along the route. This would allow too many twists to the whole nature and point of jump being handled as it is. You are cut off for 1 week. Nothing jumps faster than 1 week. If you allow emergence in mid-jump you set up the possibility of faster comms and jumps. Fine for an ATU, not for the OTU.

It will emerge with the ship, if it hasn't drifted into contact with the boundary.

If it gets stuck in jump space it's a moot point.

On the issue of hulls, that's why I don't go in for the whole "jump bubble" nonsense. If your fuel is to form a uniform bubble around the hull then it needs to be based on AREA not VOLUME. As you note a dispersed or open frame hull is going to have a lot more AREA for the same VOLUME compared to a sphere hull.

Also note that a hull costs the same regardless of it being small (under 100tons) or large, a starship or a spaceship. So all hulls are basically the same. This is one reason* why, even though I use it, I dislike the idea of a jump grid in the hull (my own take is more of a current/field effect based on hull contact of like materials). So it doesn't matter if you jump with a small craft attached (properly) or not. As long as it's within the ship's designed hull total for jump and the jump drive is in working order you're good.

* another being that hull damage does not equate to jump drive damage and vice versa

An example seems in order. The Gazelle is a good one. Properly designed it should begin as a 400ton hull. You pay for 400tons of hull, including bridge for 400tons. Then you decide 100tons of that is going to be drop tanks (and when carried they are part of the jump, when dropped you recalculate your hull as 300tons for performance). Next you want an externally carried 20ton Gig. No problem, stick it on and it's good. Jump without it and you're fine. In the end your actual "hull" is just 280tons but it has proper attachments for 120tons more (in the form of 2x50tons and 1x20tons of specific dimensions). By the way, the above is also how I explain the Gazelle having 4 hardpoints, legally, because it is actually a 400ton hull.

As a contrary example say you have a pair of 200ton J2 Far-Traders docked and one tries to make a J1 for both (400tons total). While the math works, the effect won't. The ships aren't designed to do that. For one thing neither has a bridge good for more than 200tons of control. For another there are no proper jump connections between the two. What happens? Well the ship attempting the jump will probably misjump. The ship left behind is going to take some serious damage and could be destroyed. I'd impose the same misjump level of damage but keep it in normal space. That is, if the misjumping ship got a "destroyed" result, then so would the one left behind. If the misjumping ship simply "misjumped" then I'd impose a repair requirement on the one left behind of equal time (1d6 weeks) and have it totally disabled until repaired.

That's this old trader's take on it :)
 
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I recall a Traveller News Service that recounted an individual who experienced a brief exposure to jumpspace. He survived and suffered a temporary loss of equilibium.

Yes. I can't recall if it was contact or not but seem to think it was. And in all of recorded history he was the first and only known person to have survived. Most who even come close for too long suffer permanent mental damage and usually die.

If I recall correctly the reports on this individual were full of loopholes for refs to use and apply as they saw fit...

...it was a hoax

...he was crazy

...the gov'mint disappeared him

...etc
 
Jump entry bubble, not jump bubble

On the issue of hulls, that's why I don't go in for the whole "jump bubble" nonsense. If your fuel is to form a uniform bubble around the hull then it needs to be based on AREA not VOLUME. As you note a dispersed or open frame hull is going to have a lot more AREA for the same VOLUME compared to a sphere hull.
It seems that no matter how many times I explain it, the concept keeps getting misunderstood. Or maybe it got invented more than once, with the other version(s) being somewhat different from mine.

My "jump bubble" is not a bubble around the hull. It's a region of jumpspace that has temporarily been "softened" by the injection of a great deal of hydrogen. First you open a small hole into jumpspace, then yuo inject the hydrogen (ALL the hydrogen) and then you slam the ship across the interdimensional interface. My concept is that jumpspace is dense, at least as dense as water, maybe more (I don't have sufficient knowledge of physics to figure that out). The transition of a ship from realspace to jumpspace is extremely abrupt, and if performed without this preliminary softening up will wreck the ship (cp. what happens if you hit a water surface at great speed, roughly the same effect as hitting solid rock because the water doesn't have time to get out of the way). To soften up an area you need 10% of the hull size worth of hydrogen for jump-1 space. Jump-2 space is denser than jump-1 space, so you need more hydrogen to creat a soft area of the same size.

Once you're in jumpspace, you don't need the soft spot any more. The hydrogen dissipates quickly, so you have to make the transition shortly after you injected the hydrogen.

"Jump bubble" is also used to denote the bubble of realspace maintained by the jump grid. This is not the same thing.


Hans
 
It seems that no matter how many times I explain it, the concept keeps getting misunderstood.

Sorry, I didn't mean your jump bubble idea Hans :)

I like your jump bubble and softened dimensional boundary concept, if I've not said so before. It's close to my own idea where the hydrogen is used by the jump drive to create a plasma jet that tears a hole through the boundary and one has to tumble in before the rift closes. I think I may even like yours better because it sounds less flashy and more subtle, if I've read it right. But it's not the way most have interpreted the whole jump bubble idea, nor to my recollection the way it was described in canon (SOM?).
 
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From the Epic Poem 'Twilight's Peak':

"And Lo, for the skilled wizardry, carried forth from the Dark Times by the Dwarven Genonee and Elven Darryan, created the mighty spell that renders asunder the abyss of space."

See? Once you've sufficiently explained the technology. . .
 
Sorry, I didn't mean your jump bubble idea Hans :)

I like your jump bubble and softened dimensional boundary concept, if I've not said so before. It's close to my own idea where the hydrogen is used by the jump drive to create a plasma jet that tears a hole through the boundary and one has to tumble in before the rift closes. I think I may even like yours better because it sounds less flashy and more subtle, if I've read it right. But it's not the way most have interpreted the whole jump bubble idea, nor to my recollection the way it was described in canon (SOM?).

SOM specifically says the bubble is created by the lanthanum hull grid.
 
SOM specifically says the bubble is created by the lanthanum hull grid.
Indeed. AFAICR there's no mention of using the fuel as anything other than fuel. So the 'jump bubble' mentioned in SOM is a bubble of realspace in jumpspace, maintained by the drive. The other kind(s) of jump bubble is a misnomer.


Hans
 
IMTU it's a quantum tunnelling bubble similar to Dragoner's example. I have the thing spherical and comfortably enclosing the maximum dimension of the ship.

For most TUs it seems to be the case that if an object remains within the 'bubble' (whatever that may be) it will emerge intact with the ship, otherwise it will be disintegrated (explosively or not). Whether the disintegrated particles remain in Jump Space or transfer to real space is largely irrelevant.
 
I've treated it the same as when luggage falls off a vehicle:

1) Ship becomes lighter and zigs slightly.

2) Body moves away from ship and ages rapidly the moment it is no longer in the jump (near-stasis) field. See number 1.

3) Body scrapes along the side of ship causing static buildup/discharge triggering misjump.

4) Body goes into scoop intake and re-enters ship as stowaway if it survives.

5) Body gets wedged somewhere on ship and is still wedged until ship lands and a thud is heard.

6) Body causes damage to ship. See bird hits on jet engines. Ship falls out of jumpspace.
 
If you allow emergence in mid-jump you set up the possibility of faster comms and jumps. Fine for an ATU, not for the OTU.

In such cases where a mid-jump incident occurs, what I do is have the crew still wait out their week onboard the ship. And then the ship "falls" out of jumpspace on its own (the crew has no engineering control). But when they look out their window, they'll see that they have travelled only J3 instead of J6 for example. And J6 amount of fuel was spent.

A "falling out of jumpspace" disaster would simply be the ship not surviving the transition back to normal space and maybe a shockwave would be heard if there was air. But there would be no sign of the ship or crew/cargo or anything to retrieve. The idea being to keep the players from cheating.
 
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