Language skill

[McPerth]

It's of course a personal oppinion, but I don't like how the languag skill is featured in MgT:

Language is treated as each language being a different specialty, with native language(s) being treated as given, with no skill level. I guess language (one) 3 will be enough as to pass for a native (not specified in rules, but level 3 is quite high in MgT). That's the part I do like.

What I don't like about it is how skill 0 is featured:

MgT:CB, page 56:

Having Language 0 implies thath the character has a smattering of simple phrases in many languages.

As also not specified (as is in Trade skill) that having one specialty doesn't give you level 0 in others, andy character with Language (one) 1 has such smattering of simple phrases in many languages.

So, myself, speaking Catalan and Spanish as native, nice level in English (I'd say skill level 2, as I won't pass as a native), some French (let's say level 1) and a little Esperanto (let's say skill 0) should know a smattering of simple phrases in Russian, Chineese (Mandarin), Arabian, German, Swahili, etc... (and sure others, just to cite some major languages), which is not the case (belive me).

Suggestions:

Language is treated as Trade in what having skill level in one of the specialties has no effect on other specialties (no level 0 in them).

Level 0 is also specialty specific, and allows for a smattering of simple phrases in this specific language

 

[colinfit20]

Regarding Languages

In a Mongoose Traveller game I granted Languages 0 as an automatic skill with a free skill indicated as your character's native language at +1.

The reason for this is that its common to know a smattering of various languages but unless you have a specific skill in that language about all you can do is understand their spoken language not the written version even if the game is set in a time where computers are far more common and books are rare enough to be very valuable...(Unfortunately this includes the bad ones too!)

Been wondering how this would be viewed this is the first time I've seen an actual query on this and got curious.

 

[HG_B]

In a Mongoose Traveller game I granted Languages 0 as an automatic skill with a free skill indicated as your character's native language at +1.

The reason for this is that its common to know a smattering of various languages but unless you have a specific skill in that language about all you can do is understand their spoken language not the written version even if the game is set in a time where computers are far more common and books are rare enough to be very valuable...(Unfortunately this includes the bad ones too!)

Been wondering how this would be viewed this is the first time I've seen an actual query on this and got curious.

I find it easier to read a bit of languages than understand them when spoken. Romance languages especially since they have a common root language that I had to read & listen too in Church as a child...

 

[McPerth]

I find it easier to read a bit of languages than understand them when spoken. Romance languages especially since they have a common root language that I had to read & listen too in Church as a child...

This also happens to me, but with English (as both Catalan and Spanish are romace languages, I can more or less understand most of them, though I cannot express myself in them).

Perhaps this 0 level to related skills (those in the same cascade) should apply to same family languages (as in T2K 1st editions its cost was halved), but I'm pretty sure it's inappropiate to different family languages (as German would be for me).

 

[colinfit20]

I find it easier to read a bit of languages than understand them when spoken. Romance languages especially since they have a common root language that I had to read & listen too in Church as a child...

The Alternate Spinward Marches game I was designing set 150 odd years after the supplement changed the x-boat route to a series of extra stellar gates allowing instantaneous travel between them until an unforeseen disaster caused them to self destruct taking effectively wiping out every system that had a gate within it.

This wiped out most of the advanced technological systems and the remainder had to rely on a drastic reduction of jump capable craft for trade, supplies, communication and protection since the gates allowed a huge amount of warships to be moved anywhere in the spinward marches save for a small corner.

The written word as I mentioned is actually quite rare to know anything more than your native language without extra training but the spoken language survived a bit better since the computer systems are usually whats used instead of books but even then oral systems are used rather than to store anything other than vital information even to the point where audio books are actually much easier to obtain than an old fashioned book which are considered an obvious symbol of wealth in this age.

 

[HG_B]

The written word as I mentioned is actually quite rare to know anything more than your native language without extra training but the spoken language survived a bit better since the computer systems are usually whats used instead of books but even then oral systems are used rather than to store anything other than vital information even to the point where audio books are actually much easier to obtain than an old fashioned book which are considered an obvious symbol of wealth in this age.

Considering the non-volatile storage density even today, it is totally unrealistic to imagine that massive amounts of written works in other languages wouldn't be all over the place. To the point of laughter.

 

[aramis]

Considering the non-volatile storage density even today, it is totally unrealistic to imagine that massive amounts of written works in other languages wouldn't be all over the place. To the point of laughter.

Don't discount the tendency of authoritarian regimes to ban languages and destroy texts.

There are an AWFUL lot of authoritarian regimes in the OTU. They are quite likely to enforce some particular dialect and delete and destroy everything they can in anything else, and bar data from being carried across the extrality zone border if not in the approved language. (Many polities on current Earth have such movements, too.) I can see entire worlds of billions not realizing that there are other dialects of galanglic because they never left world, and on world nothing but galanglic is allowed, and the everpresent monitoring rats them out immediately for use of unapproved words, resulting in fines and/or criminal sanctions.

 

[BytePro]

Yeah, the level 0 definition is silly.

My own take is that level-0 means you have some skill in picking up/understanding other languages. Ex: you don't get he -3 penalty when attempting to communicate/decipher... difficulty would depend on how similar language/culture is to what one knows.

Food for thought:
What level is one's native language? What if a character has several native tongues?

 

[McPerth]

Yeah, the level 0 definition is silly.

My own take is that level-0 means you have some skill in picking up/understanding other languages. Ex: you don't get he -3 penalty when attempting to communicate/decipher... difficulty would depend on how similar language/culture is to what one knows.

I keep thinking that even level 0 should be only in one specialty (or family), meaning some basic knowledge ot it (sort of what a Spanish speaking person would understand from Italian or Portuguese).

Food for thought:
What level is one's native language?

Difficult to say.

As a rule of thumb, for someone that has not specifically studied it (so, as default), I'd use 3 + EDU bonus in MgT (so 1-6). For other versions about EDU/2.5 rounded up (again 1-6).

What if a character has several native tongues?

Having myself two native languages (as told above), I'm quite aware about that. I'd give that character both at native level (as T2K did), as both were learned at the easiest age (when learning to speak).

EDIT: BTW, for anyone whose native language is not Galanglic (up to the referee to determine how common is on each planet, or a topic for another thread) I'd give it at 1/term (maximum native -1) if he served on an Imperial career (IN, Marines, Scouts, etc., again to referee's decision).

 

[Icosahedron]

My take on this is that Level-0 is for one specific language and would confer basic pidgin. JoT is what would confer a smattering of simple phrases of many languages, raising you slightly from the condition of being totally clueless (-3).

I have used the following scale in my games:
Level -3 = totally clueless.
Level -2, -1 = a few key words at the Ref's discretion.
Level 0 = Simple pidgin. Hard to make yourself understood. Very basic understanding if people speak slowly. Awful grammar and pronunciation. Probably illiterate with unfamiliar alphabet.
Level 1 = Elementary understanding. Dodgy grammar but you can get by and hold down a (non-oratory) job. Barely literate in strange alphabet.
Level 2 = Good understanding, acceptable grammar and literacy, but obviously not native.
Level 3 = Speaks, reads and writes like a native. Capabilities depend on Int and Edu rather than Lang.
Level 4+ = Increasing academic skill, language history, etymology, skill with alternative dialects, etc.

Eg. A Spaniard with Level 4 English could perhaps pass as a native Englishman, Scotsman or American at will. (I would strictly limit the number of successful dialects, though.)

Everyone gets Lang-3 in his native tongue.

NB. I'm a CTer and my scale follows CT rather than MgT.

 

[HiverLord]

Don't discount the tendency of authoritarian regimes to ban languages and destroy texts.

There are an AWFUL lot of authoritarian regimes in the OTU.

And we can't forget Vilani tradition...

 

[Cryton]

And we can't forget Vilani tradition...

IIRC Valani tradition, at least according to T4 was to lock away undesired ideas in the AAB...

 

[Shonner]

I'm more bothered by the lack of language types in Mongoose Traveller. Language by race is kind of racist.

 

[Cryton]

I'm more bothered by the lack of language types in Mongoose Traveller. Language by race is kind of racist.

Actually, it tends to be language by species (humans and their ilk being the exception) so its more specist. :devil:

 

[Shonner]

Actually, it tends to be language by species (humans and their ilk being the exception) so its more specist. :devil:

I'm going by what it says on my character sheet.

 

[rancke]

I'm going by what it says on my character sheet.

What does it say on your character sheet?


Hans

 

[Cryton]

What does it say on your character sheet?


Hans

My MgT CRB character sheet has two lines marked Language with room to write in what languages you know.

Like Hans, I would love to know what yours says.

 

[Shonner]

My character sheet has Race and Racial Traits written on it. Therefor it's racist. You guys are slow today. I forget, you guys don't watch RPG brigade videos.

 

[rancke]

My character sheet has Race and Racial Traits written on it. Therefor it's racist. You guys are slow today. I forget, you guys don't watch RPG brigade videos.

I'm sorry, I'm better at catching funny jokes.


Hans

 

[Cryton]

My character sheet has Race and Racial Traits written on it. Therefor it's racist. You guys are slow today. I forget, you guys don't watch RPG brigade videos.

DOH!! Yep. I'm slow today. And no, I haven't seen a RPG Brigade video yet.