Large adventuring ship

[Murphy]

Is it viable, by any stretch, for a group of adventurers to turn enough profit to maintain a large (1800-ton) ship?

Merchants? Their profit might be higher, but it's not as easy to find enough cargo, plus my players never seem to get into that sort of thing. Pure commerce is boring.

Mercenaries? Starship-based mercs do exist, but are ridiculously expensive for a reason and I doubt they'd find much employ in our Trojan Reach. In short, improbable and unprofitable.

Pirates? The ship could be their most recent prize... but I don't want them to start as a band of cutthroats. Will steer them to restart my stalled Drinax campaign, but that's for later.

Noble and his retinue? This might do... the ship is then maintained at net loss, but serves as the noble's superyacht along with 50 loyal retainers. And he jumps around in what amounts to a small destroyer, adventuring on a slightly bigger scale than most Travellers. Trade, secure deliveries, luxury passengers, combat jobs, prospecting and mining, archaeology, medical or technical charity on backwater worlds, etc.

Would that work? Any other ideas?

 

[GypsyComet]

Remember that the trade *rules* are calibrated for small ships, but can, at least in some editions, work for larger ones. The really big freighters don't work on speculation at all, but typically only appear on set routes that will fill their holds every time. Transport is just an overhead cost to the companies that operate those freighters, because they are in the business at each end of the route of taking what the freighter delivers and turning it into money.

The mid-range ships work the system around the edges, but with better connections than the little guys. No longer just a ship and crew, they need permanent brokers on tap at every port so they don't waste a lot of port time searching for cargo. It is instead waiting for them when they pull in. They still have to find those cargoes, as they will not normally be bespoke like the big guys, but they aren't completely at the mercy of timing and dregs like the little guys are.

 

[mike wightman]

Do the PCs owe anything the ship? If they have no mortgage then all they need to find are life support and fuel costs from carrying passengers and freight.

 

[Frankymole]

I think Adventure 4: Leviathan was the biggest one I actually used for any exploration/adventuring, though presumably a Donosev scout surveyor with associated auxiliaries could do the same, pure surveying instead of exploration/trading.

There's always the Azhanti High Lightning game though, for shipboard adventures/battles!

 

[kilemall]

To support larger ships, I would allow for 2-3 destinations to be announced, assuming the route is more or less direct that would allow for passengers and cargo to be loaded for each.

Don't forget the charter angle, 90% rate on full capacity for X weeks/months, of course a patron with the money and the need for a larger ship is steering the players straight for trouble.

Doesn't have to be sturm und drang Big Battles or Corsairing yet would be appropriate for the bigger ship- the charter could be for an entertainment band/troop to get into all kinds of tour trouble, a science expedition, or colonization.

 

[Swiftbrook]

Is it viable, by any stretch, for a group of adventurers to turn enough profit to maintain a large (1800-ton) ship?

Merchants? Their profit might be higher, but it's not as easy to find enough cargo, plus my players never seem to get into that sort of thing. Pure commerce is boring.

This is viable as an established shipping company. You need people on the ground at every port and have a set schedule. I don't see this working as a free trader. Either way it's still hard to fight the boring angle.

Mercenaries? Starship-based mercs do exist, but are ridiculously expensive for a reason and I doubt they'd find much employ in our Trojan Reach. In short, improbable and unprofitable.

I actually see the Mercenaries/Starmerc angle as a very viable possibility. Government have limited ability to maintain high TL naval vessels or high TL equipped troops the farther from high TL areas. The PCs provide their services to one government for a ticket (2 - 3 months), then take a ticket with a larger corporation (it doesn't even need to be larger than continental size) for the next few months. Think of WalMart hiring a Starmerc outfit to protect some of its freighters as it tries to open several stores on a nearby planet.

Pirates? The ship could be their most recent prize... but I don't want them to start as a band of cutthroats. Will steer them to restart my stalled Drinax campaign, but that's for later.

PC = Good Guys.

-Swiftbrook

 

[savage]

I've never bought into the small ship universe for a 11,000 system empire. Seems that the right economic conditions are necessary for larger vessels to operate. However, that should be pretty frequent. Like any real world operation it might take larger backing to support larger ROI.

The players could readily find themselves in the right time and the right place to help a megacorp or noble who needs larger shipments to one of their worlds.
The characters' resume's might be what they're looking for. Experienced merchants, navy or marines would be able to protect a valuable investment on a high visibility project.

 

[kilemall]

I've never bought into the small ship universe for a 11,000 system empire. Seems that the right economic conditions are necessary for larger vessels to operate. However, that should be pretty frequent. Like any real world operation it might take larger backing to support larger ROI.

Imagine if our oceans were as is, except the oceans are never more then 30 feet deep.

A tonnage-limit to jump tech might force you to operate small ships just like a shallow ocean world would for waterborne shipping.

 

[whartung]

Mercenaries? Starship-based mercs do exist, but are ridiculously expensive for a reason and I doubt they'd find much employ in our Trojan Reach. In short, improbable and unprofitable.

If starship based mercs exist, specifically long term ones, then it's clearly a profitable enterprise.

If work is rare, but desired, the prices go up to cover the down time...because otherwise it's not a profitable enterprise.

Simply, unprofitable enterprises don't exist, at least not for long. So, if they exist IYTU, then ipso facto, they're profitable.

That doesn't mean it's not competitive. That doesn't mean it's easy. That doesn't mean it's not capital intensive. But, in theory, it's profitable. So it's a matter of the ref providing the opportunities to let the company try and make it's profit.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Imagine if our oceans were as is, except the oceans are never more then 30 feet deep.

A tonnage-limit to jump tech might force you to operate small ships just like a shallow ocean world would for waterborne shipping.

The OTU for better or worse is a big ship universe what with Tigress Class dreadnoughts and such. If you disagree on that we are discussing YTU not OTU.

Now if you are talking about Clement Sector universe which DOES have a stated "laws of physics" 5000 ton limit (well 4999 tons) on jump capable ships (but no size limit to non-jump ships)....

 

[kilemall]

The OTU for better or worse is a big ship universe what with Tigress Class dreadnoughts and such. If you disagree on that we are discussing YTU not OTU.

Now if you are talking about Clement Sector universe which DOES have a stated "laws of physics" 5000 ton limit (well 4999 tons) on jump capable ships (but no size limit to non-jump ships)....

I'm not arguing canon vs. not or for or against SSU, I am saying that it isn't necessarily 'wrong' to decide on a small ship universe, that jump makes for a very easy size limitation mechanic, and that physics trumps economics.

 

[savage]

Imagine if our oceans were as is, except the oceans are never more then 30 feet deep.

A tonnage-limit to jump tech might force you to operate small ships just like a shallow ocean world would for waterborne shipping.

Your analogy doesn't work. The USSR was developing large deployment aircraft that skimmed above the ocean, we would develop wider ships to compensate for depth like barges, etc.

The Imperium never would have grown to the scale it achieved without a completely different Navy and a different economic/cultural makeup. Even Agent of the Imperium describes larger vessels.

Making a physical limit to jump changes the dynamics of the Imperium dramatically. Otherwise, the military would be running into the Zulu War scenario over and over again. It would become a numbers game.

I want to add, I'm not discounting Clement Sector. The government, culture and military we're reworked for that product line. I'm specifically referring to the OTU 3I.

 

[kilemall]

I want to add, I'm not discounting Clement Sector. The government, culture and military we're reworked for that product line. I'm specifically referring to the OTU 3I.

OTU 3I is fine as a qualifier re: big ship/little ship and canon is with that direction, but saying an 11,000 star system empire MUST having big ships, that's a choice not a requirement, that is my point.

 

[nobby-w]

Is it viable, by any stretch, for a group of adventurers to turn enough profit to maintain a large (1800-ton) ship?

Once I did a campaign where my party had a merchant line with a few larger ships in the 400-2000 ton range. The ships ran trade routes under the control of NPCs and the party was mainly hopping about in a smaller ship arranging cargo and other deals (of varying degrees of legality) for the larger ships.

Then they tangled with some pirates who took one of their ships. After some shady dealing they got hold of a couple of light warships for 'scrap' and went after the pirates.

The campaign then had a phase of a power struggle against pirates and a minor trade war.

It's a matter of scale, really. There was plenty of scope for dodgy dealings as they arranged deals, tracked down the pirates, dealt with the boys in blue, fended off the attentions of local crime lords and so forth.

 

[savage]

OTU 3I is fine as a qualifier re: big ship/little ship and canon is with that direction, but saying an 11,000 star system empire MUST having big ships, that's a choice not a requirement, that is my point.

Perhaps it's not clear. It's not wrong to choose a small ship universe. But if accuracy is important, 3I must change.

It's not a choice. It was the way it was designed kilemall. Choosing a small ship universe requires a redesign of the culture, 3I structure, and military to maintain a some level of realism.

Choosing to implement a small ship universe in 3I OTU is not going to function in a campaign. Of course, GM hand waves are standard for dealing with big problems when it's based on ref convenience.

In the present OTU stats, such a government would collapse quickly.

But this is off topic.

Large ship adventurer groups are very feasible.

 

[kilemall]

Perhaps it's not clear. It's not wrong to choose a small ship universe. But if accuracy is important, 3I must change.

It's not a choice. It was the way it was designed kilemall. Choosing a small ship universe requires a redesign of the culture, 3I structure, and military to maintain a some level of realism.

Choosing to implement a small ship universe in 3I OTU is not going to function in a campaign. Of course, GM hand waves are standard for dealing with big problems when it's based on ref convenience.

In the present OTU stats, such a government would collapse quickly.

I believe we are sort of agreeing.

Yes the OTU would have to change.

No an 11,000 system ACS empire is not impossible <-- my point of contention.

Yes it would have to be different then OTU and therefore ATU.

 

[flykiller]

Once I did a campaign where my party had a merchant line with a few larger ships in the 400-2000 ton range ... a minor trade war.

that really sounds like fun.

 

[Ulsyus]

How did they get the ship in the first place?

If they're not running from a bank then the mercenary or letter of marque option may work. At least the government/Corp they work for wouldn't have to fork out for the establishment cost of the vessel. That'd make it more viable wouldn't it?

 

[whartung]

No an 11,000 system ACS empire is not impossible <-- my point of contention.

Yup, I agree.

It would be less efficient, but that's not impossible, or even impractical.

 

[savage]

I believe we are sort of agreeing.

No an 11,000 system ACS empire is not impossible <-- my point of contention.

Yes it would have to be different then OTU and therefore ATU.

ACS? So, then we agree. 3I OTU would not stand up, as-is, in a small ship universe.


But this is a thread on large adventuring ships.


I don't even consider the 1800dt Leviathans to be a large adventuring ship.
MT had 3kdt and larger bulk transports and carriers.