LBB 2 ships

[far-trader]

sabredog beat me to the post button (back one page)

Um, under what ruleset is J6 availble at TTL 9?o:

Technically CT LBB2 and 3:

Per the TL charts (LBB3 pg 15) Drive letters A-D are TL9

Per the design rules (LBB2 pg22) you can achieve J6 in a 100ton hull with a C Drive.

The tricky bit is fitting 60tons of jump fuel, 20tons of jump drive, 10tons of power plant, 60tons of power plant fuel, 20tons of bridge and a model/6 computer, into 100tons of hull. That's 177tons btw, and we don't have anywhere for the crew (minimum 1) to live.

It's a bit more (almost) possible in the 1st Ed of LBB2 where you could get away with no power plant and a model/1(?) computer. You'd still be 1ton over (maybe a handcomp could replace the model/1 *) and still no place for the crew to live.

Drop tanks might work but then they're HG so not really an option imo.

So, as I said, technically possible*, but not quite feasible.

* I like the idea of a J6 express boat with the Scout running the thing through his handcomp and spending the week aboard in a Fast Drug state with a handcomp administered antidote at the end of the trip.

 

[sabredog]

IMO drop tanks are ok for Book 2 ships, too. They are a fairly low tech solution that's been around since WW2 so I someone would come up with a more advanced possible solution in the "far future". Lucrative for the local economies, too as rentals for Free Traders needing to make a long jump. Just pay some kid minimum wage to go out and retrieve them.

Might be trickier (read "increased misjump risk") to use them at the lower tech level (at first, anyway), but that's yet another reason I've always told players the Scouts have those high survival rolls - they get to try out all the cool new toys. You know, the kind where all the techs jump up and down and high-five eachother when it works while the poor guy strapped to it wonders if it's safe to breathe yet.

 

[sabredog]

Besides, as one last point: the starship rules have always been fudgeable in my opinion ever since what I call the Gazelle Cheat came out in JTAS. Why would drop or demountable tanks allow a ship to claim tonnage sufficient for mounting hardpoints beyond the original hull size? The Gazelle is really just a 300 tonner that logically - and within the rules - shouldn't be able to mount a fourth hardpoint just because of the extra demountable tankage.

So if GDW can do it I figure I can think outside the box, too.

 

[DaveChase]

IMTU around TL 15, the 3I starts playing around with some collasible outside bladders. With the better material that can be made at that time, they make extremely durable usage for pumping in fuel (H20) and then with the high transfer rate pumps are able to 'suck' the bladders empty and into a storage compartment at the same time.

These bladders take 10% of the total expanded volume to store. Cost is triple regular drop tanks but no extra chance of misjump.

They can not be retro fitted and must be designed into the ship when built.

After 10 uses, you need to start checking for material failure. Every use after 10 has a cumlative 5% chance of failure.

I figured by TL 16 they have the failure rate down some and by TL 17 eliminated.


For reference here is a website for current tech Water and fuel bladders

[url="http://store.interstateproducts.com/water_bladders.htm?gclid=CNjxn6qBvZgCFQKfnAodFhYqZQ'] Water Bladders[/url]

Dave Chase

 

[sabredog]

IMTU around TL 15, the 3I starts playing around with some collasible outside bladders. With the better material that can be made at that time, they make extremely durable usage for pumping in fuel (H20) and then with the high transfer rate pumps are able to 'suck' the bladders empty and into a storage compartment at the same time.

These bladders take 10% of the total expanded volume to store. Cost is triple regular drop tanks but no extra chance of misjump.

They can not be retro fitted and must be designed into the ship when built.

After 10 uses, you need to start checking for material failure. Every use after 10 has a cumlative 5% chance of failure.

I figured by TL 16 they have the failure rate down some and by TL 17 eliminated.


For reference here is a website for current tech Water and fuel bladders

[url="http://store.interstateproducts.com/water_bladders.htm?gclid=CNjxn6qBvZgCFQKfnAodFhYqZQ'] Water Bladders[/url]

Dave Chase

I use a similar thing, but start at TL-12 and the space they take up decreases with TL (materials tech improves), as does reliability. You can't skim with them deployed, and they are only used as drop tanks. They are highly useful for ships to carry around in case they might have to make some long jumps in an emergency (or onboard deep exploration ships), or they make useful emergency tanks if the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" result comes up on the critical hit table.

By TL-16 L-Hyd is passe' IMTU....anti-matter and jump gates are starting to show up so there isn't the need to haul around all that fuel. But currently, IMTU, those are the sorts of things found only in the farthest regions of unexplored space labelled "Here Be Dragons".

 

[aramis]

Actually, Hans, no, TL 9 can't do J6. Best under 1st ed is J4, and under 2nd is j4

Under CT bk2 or TTB, you can't get a TL 9 J6, since drives only go to 'D', and on the 100Td hull, that's 20Td of Bridge, 60Td of JFuel, 60Td of PPFuel, 20Td of JDrive, and 10Td of PP, 6 Td computer. that's 120 tons of fuel

@200Td: D goes to J4... Bridge 20, JD D 25, JFuel 80, PP D 13 PPFuel 40... 178 Td... Engineer, Pilot, Nav, Medic: 16 Td...4 ton computer... 2 tons for Computer cargo, maneuver drive, and weapons.

Oh, and the model 6 isn't available at TL 9... ISTR it's TL12... Cause I remember you can't get a model 4 at TL 9, so J3 is your maximum under TL 9.

 

[rancke]

Actually, Hans, no, TL 9 can't do J6. Best under 1st ed is J4, and under 2nd is j4

That's a practical limitation, not a theoretical one. If a civilian got his hand on an Ancient fuel tank, he would be able to build a jump-6 ship.

The argument is moot, though, since jump-4 at TL9 is just as much an example of different laws of physics than jump-6 would be.


Hans