LMGs from "Aliens"

[far-trader]

Yeah, lots of stuff works great in the movies, where real physics takes a back seat to cinematic flair

For the Alien (and other movies) rig I imagined (filling in the blanks) it had some sort of active recoil dampening built in to help when actually firing. The main benefit of the rig seemed to be simply ease of carry and quick aiming. Well, more pointing than aiming. For that a steadicam rig will work.

My only beef is once you start adding recoil, especially rapid multiple heavy round recoil, to a system that is essentially balanced for zero inertia(?) the weapon is going to take off like a greased pig. Normally you have the benefit of the weapon weight and action helping the recoil a bit and I think a steadicam rig would take that out of the equation. But I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time

As for praciticality, good question. I think that would be down to the choice of weapon and type of employment. I think such a rig would be good for a heavy weapon, allowing rapid target acquisition and reducing ready weapon fatigue. And it might be beneficial for a sniper, allowing a steadier aim in situations where you can't be braced. But how often will that happen for a sniper? Almost never, or less. Or it might be useful in situations of heavy gravity, again to reduce the apparent weight and inertia of the weapon. And, as mentioned above it could be handy for laser weapons, heck even for laser sighted small arms, allowing one to hold a steady bead of the laser dot on the target.

Just speculation though. I imagine such a rig (the early ones at least) would present new problems in the field. Least of which would be breakdown. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) rules. Which would you rather have, maintenance on a weapon, or the weapon and rig? And how long will the extra weight of the rig be a benefit more than a hinderance? When you have to lug it across miles of country. When you could carry extra ammo or armor instead.

There will be times it will be useful but I don't think it would be general issue.

I'm hoping some of the experienced gun nuts show up and weigh in with some real data or more grounded speculation on this

 

[Todg]

I can only speak as a former infantryman. The steadycam mounted MG-42 attaches the user to the weapon in a verly particular way. In movies, the actors are conveniently choreographed. In real life you are going to want to be able to do things like shoot from the prone position, or push your weapon around a corner without exposing yourself.

Nice visuals, but no thanks.

Recoil on the other hands, can be handled though soft recoil systems like that used on the XM-307.

 

[kaladorn]

1) I think a steadi-harness could be made to *distribute* the recoil force. Instead of just having the weapon anchored to the harness at a single small contact point, install a sturdy large bracket. Then the harness, and by extension the body, becomes the medium against which the recoil is taken. That could improve burst accuracy and for a SAW firing 5.5mm, I think that wouldn't be too problematic or bruising. I'd have concerns about a .50 BMG version....
2) Not so useful in zero or low G. The recoil force would still have to go somewhere. If you aren't clamped down and the G's are low enough, you'd get a propulsion system...
3) Problems: Try to hit the dirt in one, or take cover and shoot over a particular piece of cover. Neither are fast or simple. Try to recover the SAW once the gunner goes down. Also problematic. The gains generally won't outweight the benefits. With a good assault sling, you can get the carry benefits (or close to it) and still have the weaopn easily recoverable and make it easier to take cover or to go prone. The steadi-harness *looks* cool. That's its main advantage.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Far-trader; yeah, some good points.

Corejob and kaladorn; yeah, the thing looks cool, but it seems to be a case specific mechanism. Still, IIRC, the weapons were designed to be "slung" behind the shoulder via the arm, or at least that's how I seem to envision/recall them working.

A steadicam is deisnged to smooth out the aim of a camera, and hence the image it captures. It's much like a gyro autostabilizer on tank guns. From this stand point I can see a possible need for a "seati-SAW" in say an urban warfare situation where running and gunning is a must across streets. But it'd be useless in a jungle. It might have possible application in a desert. Possibly in the interior of a vessel with large spaces (say a cargo hold or promenade on a liner).

I'm just tossing out ideas here

pic; http://www.billingsphotography.com/images/Robert_Steadicam.jpg

Oops, forgot one other thing. I've never worn a steadicam, but I've seen people use it up close and personal, and from what I recall you need to lean/bend your body to shift your center of gravity to allow the camera to "guide" you. From this perspective the weapon would guide the soldier so to speak.

another pic; http://www.coffee-klatsch.net/ad/2000/jun/photos/large/steadicam.jpg

 

[Gadrin]

go down near the bottom and there's a link to Aliens...

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/?filnavn=projects/projects.htm

seems to be a Colonial Marines technical manual...

The ALIENS COLONIAL MARINES TECHNICAL MANUAL is your official guide to the equipment and organisation of the United States Colonial Marines Corps

Packed with never-before-published diagrams, technical schematics and plans, the manual takes a detailed look at the guns, vehicles and ships of the USCMC, and the men and women who use them.

Read a review here: http://www.scifi.com/sfw/issue24/random.html

 

[SgtHulka]

I have the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual.

According to that resource, the smartgun is a rapid-fire laser weapon, not a slug-thrower. I can't remember how they explained why it looked like a machinegun.

 

[Blue Ghost]

A LASER weapon? No way. What author came up with that? It looks like a machinegun, sounds like a machinegun, works like a machinegun, fires like a machinegun ... and they call it a LASER?

Does anyone have the artbook for the movie, and/or the production notes?

 

[veltyen]

A LASER weapon? No way. What author came up with that? It looks like a machinegun, sounds like a machinegun, works like a machinegun, fires like a machinegun ... and they call it a LASER?

Look into one use chemical lasers.

The energy for the laser is supplied by objects remarkably similar to blanks, leading to ammo feeds, repetitive percussive noises and even things like case ejection.

Its still a bit of a stretch, but less of a stretch then you might think.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, we discussed CRLs a couple years back, and I can see the analogy

But I'm wondering why the producers didn't put in some animation to make the weapons look like they were firing beams of light.

I'm still not convinced

 

[veltyen]

Originally by Blue Ghost:
...make the weapons look like they were firing beams of light.

Because that would be less realistic then having nothing?

Unless you are firing a subbeam as a marker (much like a laser sight, or a tracer round) you don't want your laser being viewable. It gives away your position, as well as being inneficient. Conversely if the pulse is short enough you might not be able the beam even if it is in the visible range.

Kinda like having large chunky bullets float across the screen to indicate gunfire.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

Two things here:

First thing is that ACR's, Gauss Rifles, and LAG's all have gyro stabilization.

Second thing is why the hell would anyone want to be a gunner on a support weapon that won't let you do your business from the prone??

Just asking....

 

[Blue Ghost]

Yeah, but it's visuals were talking here. That's what Hollywood specializes in. A true LASER is not seen from the sides (medium and beam power depending), but for the audience you need to make it known that the weapon is a LASER. But that's just my take.

Ah well. What do I know?

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Ganidiirsi O'Flynn:
...Second thing is why the hell would anyone want to be a gunner on a support weapon that won't let you do your business from the prone??

Just asking....

Still talking the Marine BMG from Alien right? IIRC there was a write-up of it's usage from prone, the firer lays on their back. Sounds awkward if you ask me, but it will allow you to fire. I think wiki mentions it in the Alien writeup.

 

[ravells]

I'm with Blue Ghost on this one. The script never called for it, so there was no need to design for it. It there had been the designer would have come up with a nifty bipod or something.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Originally posted by Ganidiirsi O'Flynn:
Two things here:

First thing is that ACR's, Gauss Rifles, and LAG's all have gyro stabilization.

Ah, but it's an LMG were discussing here. I figured someone would bring up the ACR at some point, but an LMG, as you said, is a support weapon and not a "rifle" as such.

I still don't think it's a LASER

 

[veltyen]

You could look at it the other way. If the colonial marines standard doctrine calls for mobility over range and defence then there is no reason to fire a weapon from prone. In an emergency the harness was very quick to eject off, which might be an option when engaged in terrain without significant cover.

The argument is supported to some extent by the pulse rifles, which as large capacity short(ish) barrel weapons always seemed closer to SMG's then battle rifles to me.

 

[Colin]

Originally posted by SgtHulka:
I have the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual.

According to that resource, the smartgun is a rapid-fire laser weapon, not a slug-thrower. I can't remember how they explained why it looked like a machinegun.

Nope. It calls it a 10mm machinegun. There ARE lasers in the book, but the smart gun isn't one of them. The book does explain how to use them prone, though. Actually, a pretty cool book, especially for 2320AD levels of technology.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Ahhhh. The truth comes out

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Merxiless:
Gyroscopic stabilization is currently used on some US Naval guns.

You spin up the gyro, and regardless of firing ship's movement, (mostly rolling) it remains with barrel more or less "locked" on target.

Really nice for hitting other ships, close in, a few miles off.

Similar stabilization has been used on tanks since the M4 Sherman. The M1 is stabilized on both planes and it works extremely well for firing on the move over uneven terrain.

 

[Blue Ghost]

That's kind of how I figured the Aliens LMG worked.

Anybody have any stats for this device?