Local currencies

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by rancke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Fritz88:
5) What would make a good specie?

Imperial credit notes will be acceptable from one end of the Imperium to another (and for some distance beyond).</font>[/QUOTE]Well, I guess I was thinking about "hard" currency with the word specie, but you are right.

Originally posted by Archhealer:
I mean, a cargoload of cabbages may not seem very valuable, but to that asteroid colony on the rim...

I believe this is called (sometimes) "speculation" and is a great way to make money (or go bankrupt

).

Originally posted by Valarian:
is (supposedly) safe from forgery or fraud.

Yeah. Right.

Originally posted by Valarian:
similar to the Knights Templar. You make your deposit at a temple (TAS office), they then give you documentation to say you're entitled to draw that amount at your destination.

Yup, you're right, you did say that first, and I didn't credit you. Sorry, consider me flogged.

Originally posted by Chaos:
In some regions in the Himalaya, people used (or still use?) bricks pressed from tea leaves as currency.

And, you can make change in cups, pots and carafes!

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Valarian:
Sorry ... I can't resist.

"More tea, Vicar?"

(Possibly a very British joke)

So it seems, but not hard to find courtesy the net and google. Gods, what did primitive people do in these situations before we were online

Another day that I can say I learned something. Can't wait to share this one

 

[Chuck Anumia]

Originally posted by Archhealer:

A lot can happen to a currency in a few months. Hell, the world government that issued it could collapse, rendering it utterly worthless.

Exactly!

Consider this:
At planet 1 You buy currency a at a rate of 1 buys 2.
Jump to planet 2 and exchange your currency at a rate of 2 buys 1.

Now: back on plant 1 war eruptes and the exchange rate drops to .10 of what it was.

You made out with the old currency and if you bought back that old currency on planet 2 and took it to planet 1 you would lose 90%!

 

[selunatic2397]

My players tend to ignore most planetary currencies...they even call it monopoly money. That stopped when I introduced the specie rules from hard times on a limited basis.

"What!!! you mean Maria Theresa Dollars and Bonapart Francs are made of Silver??? Gimmee!"

 

[Golan2072]

Would all Traveller economies have different currencies with different exchange rates for different worlds?

For example, IMTU the Solar Triumvirate is a small (9 subsectors approximately) universe with a huge difference between the "core" (Sol and a few nearby systems) and the "colonies" (everything else). The big market for everything is ofcourse the Sol system - with a total of 40 billion inhabitants (75% of them on Earth); it is also the biggest production base everywhere in known space. So the Solar Triumvirate Credit is backed by Sol's economic power (mega-consumption as well as high-tech production); most colonies are owned, atleast in part, by Core-based corporations or by the Core-based government. So will low-pop (a few persons to afew million persons) planets on the frontier have their own currencies?

Did different parts of the pre-telegraph USA have different currencies of exchange rates? Or pre-radio parts of the British Empire?

 

[parmasson]

^Back before the Civil War (1860s) any local bank could issue paper currency. Its value varied quite a bit depending on where you were. The currency from the Illinois and Michigan Canal Bank might not be so welcome in New York City more than a day away from Chicago even by railroad.

Local currencies would most likely have value based on their local economies just like the current world exchange “system”. I like to use the guideline that “paper” currencies have a value that declines about 20% per parsec away from the system of issue. There are always exceptions and gold/silver coinage is at local rates.

Now get Hortalez et Cie to “certify” or guarantee your issue and you might do better. Better yet come to an agreement with one of the megacorps to actually issue your currency and there could be a few interesting problems if you go bankrupt. Suddenly HeC “owns” your planet and to back up its claims company security forces show up.

IMTU a planet that issues a local currency needs to because they don't get enough trade to have enough Icreds to go around. For me any planet with a “D” starport and some with a “C” starport will issue their own local currency to keep the local economy going.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Don't forget that even after the American Civil War, there was non-federally produced money - called company scrip. If you worked in, say, a mine, you got paid in company scrip. The company scrip was only good in the company stores and to pay the rent and bills for your company house. Unlike some of the other scenarios mentioned here, it had absolutely no value outside the company town. (It was one of the factors driving unionization of mine workers.)

 

[Golan2072]

Remember that IMTU (the Solar Triumvirate) most colonies are owned by Core-based corporations and/or by the Core-centric government; while most colonies are autonomous to a degree (travel distances and speeds dictate this) and governed by "appointed-from-above" governors, they are very rarely economically independent in the "big picture" - that is, they are usually self-sufficient in the basics (especially in the far frontier), but every big capital expenditure - such as large-scale construction - is financed by the local offices of corporations backed by big Core capital.

So will MTU have local currencies?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I would say a huge portion of your ST would not have local currencies. If it's a totally corporate backwater, though, you might use the company scrip bit. Might make it fun to play the characters in company scrip.....

 

[BillDowns]

Best of JTAS 1-4 had an interesting article about local currencies vs Imperial and a conversion table. The conversion table has TL going down and Starport type across. TL15 and Port A had a value of 1.00; change by .05 going down and across. This is the conversion rate.

It referred back to LBB2 trade & commerce; the prices were in local currencies. Thus one could make a bigger speculative profit or loss after conversion to Imperial credits.

 

[Plankowner]

2-4601 I would say that the only colony worlds with therr own script/currency would be the independents. That might be part of how they show their independence, they have their own money.

I also agree with Fritz88 that on the Company controlled worlds, company script might be the name of the game. Sure, the company would claim that this scrip is backed by the economic might of the MC, but the reality is that they are using it as a means to control. The MC may not even us the same scrip on all the worlds that they control.

That could be in interesting situation. The players sell a cargo on a world controlled by Exxon-Sony and are paid in CHIPS (the local currency). They then jump to a different world, also owned by Exxon-Sony and try to buy stuff with their CHIPS only to find out that on THIS world Exxon-Sony uses GALLONS as their currency and won't honor the CHIPS from the other system. Or maybe they will, but not at full value...

In the OTU, I figured that most of the Imperial colonies used Credits, but the Lost Colonies (of which there are a LOT in the Spinward Marches) and larger settlements that came through the Long Night, might use their own currency.

Other Races might use different methods. The Solomani probably have hundreds of currencies with a huge exchange rate system. Zho's probably only have one currency imposed on all worlds.

 

[Pickles]

Even independents with their own currency might actually be 'pegged' to a larger, more powerful currency. In the RW, lots of small states peg their currency to the US dollar. Not sure about all the reasons, but it does help stabilise your economy. On the downside, things like interest rates have no bearing on your own circumstances.

 

[hydrozoa]

Fritz88 wrote

...there was non-federally produced money - called company scrip. If you worked in, say, a mine, you got paid in company scrip...Unlike some of the other scenarios mentioned here, it had absolutely no value outside the company town. (It was one of the factors driving unionization of mine workers.)

Oh yes...I once had to catalogue over 100 examples of script, some had holes in the middle, some where odd shapes. All of them were earned with blood and sweat (my grandfather could have attested to that). I can easily see some "client state" and "non aligned" worlds, as well as some less scrupulous companies doing this to belters/miners/other workers (all this assuming the Imperium wouldn't permit this to occur, which is open to question in some cases).

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
Don't forget that even after the American Civil War, there was non-federally produced money - called company scrip. If you worked in, say, a mine, you got paid in company scrip. The company scrip was only good in the company stores and to pay the rent and bills for your company house. Unlike some of the other scenarios mentioned here, it had absolutely no value outside the company town. (It was one of the factors driving unionization of mine workers.)

"Cause I own my soul to the company store..."

See Grapes of Wrath for another version.


But as far as money goes, somethink like the "Dutch and EastGerman Market" might exist. Let's assume Imperial Credits (That according to Challenge exist as rather thick plastic notes/coins) is official currency on Starports and imperial Territory only. Now you get three situations:

+ Some planets (I assume the very small and the very big) simply adopt ImpCred as their currency

+ Some have such a lousy exchange rate and/or worthless money that ImpCred is the unofficial currency. Anything worth having or needed quick, any luxuries must be paid with it, likely in Imperial-run markets (The east german model)

+ Some have a solid economy and their money is worth (almost) as much as the ImpCred. Their traders will actually accept ImpCred on a 1:1 base, giving back change in local currency. This was common in the Netherlands pre Euro.

Some planets will leave the money exchange to banks and even allow locals to own/exchange foreign money (i.e German hotels did/do accept US-Dollar) some will restrict it to state owned institutions and produce a well-working black market even for Tourists (i.e Bulgaria in the 1970s) some will force an exchange of X ImpCreds per day (East German model)


Oh and for the IRL exchange rates (called Margins / Margen):

You have more than one set per currency IRL. This is most common for precious metal (Each of the gold bars ranging from a few gram to a kilo has it's own set) but also happens to currencies.

One is always the "Ask(Sell)" Margin. This is what you want from the customer to sell foreign currency and is slightly higher than the margin on the money market.

The second is the "Bid(Buy)" Margin. This you offer when you buy foreign currencies from a customer. It is always lower than the margin on the money market.

The margins vary either by amount of money (If the customer exchanges more he get's better margins) or by value of the notes (due to rareness/rareness of trades of the bigger ones)


Even currencies that are not freely traded had an "estimated value" in the money market feeds, useful for Im/Export traders in evaluating money.

 

[jasper]

I was station in West Berlin and had to do this occasionally. I could not exchange U.S. dollars to East Germany Marks. But West to East marks.
So $1 = 2.13 to 3.4 Deutch marks
1 mark = 3 to 4 East marks.
Now the small shops had the prices posted from the start of day. And generally it stated the same as board. but I did notice if I had 300 marks sometimes a phone call was made to the back room. I guess to see if the rate changed or if they could make change.
I think I still have some east marks in my dragon's horde.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

[Remembers the Simpsons episode with Itchy & Scratchy World, where on entry you're encouraged to buy I&S money, but when you get in you find nobody accepts it...]

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
...fun to play the characters...

Aw, jiminy, I meant "pay" the characters....

 

[Black Globe Generator]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Further, it would be very rare that one planet would accept another planet's local currency. It would usually be worthless anywhere but the originating world.

Oh, I don't know about that - I've had no problem using U.S. dollars in Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean.

I think in areas where there is considerable trade, local businesses would gladly accept credits from neighboring worlds, particularly neighbors with credits worth more than the local currency.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
Further, it would be very rare that one planet would accept another planet's local currency. It would usually be worthless anywhere but the originating world.

Oh, I don't know about that - I've had no problem using U.S. dollars in Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean.

I think in areas where there is considerable trade, local businesses would gladly accept credits from neighboring worlds, particularly neighbors with credits worth more than the local currency. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't think the analogy is quite right though. What you're comparing is more like offering Imperial Credits to the barkeep of a satellite who can call the Imperial Starport for the latest exchange rate in a few seconds. The US dollar is the defacto international currency in most places, like the Imperial Credit is the interstellar currency in most places. And there are by the minute rather than by the week exchage rates and related news so a fair exchange can be made.

My take on trading local currency for local currency in different star systems is more like trying to buy some wine in Tunguska with beads from a tribe in Borneo

In Traveller there's the week, at least, lag in currency exchange information between two systems. A lot can happen in a week. The country whose currency you're trying to honestly exchange may no longer exist now that you've travelled some parsecs distant in a week or two. Or it may have simply had to devalue the currency to the point where the local merchant is taking a big loss.

 

[BillDowns]

Originally posted by jasper:
I was station in West Berlin and had to do this occasionally. I could not exchange U.S. dollars to East Germany Marks. But West to East marks.
So $1 = 2.13 to 3.4 Deutch marks
1 mark = 3 to 4 East marks.

Brings up the memory of my Dad trying to sell cigarettes and Army script in Germany in 1953. He wound up with East marks but didn't know it until he tried to pay for dinner with 'em.

He did a lot of dish-washing that night.