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longer times in system?

I've long been going for mutliple star-ports in one system. It's only logical that the Imperium and local powers try to squeeze the maximum of profit out of a system. Especially since Traveller is a economically ridden world.
Look at a normal star system: Most systems are just suns, with some eccentricly flying pieces of matter around it. Humaniti however settled thousands of systems that contain bodies beyond the star and "left-overs". Take the Sol system as an example.
We have Venus and Mars close enough to Sol to arrange for habitats to live in and we have Earth in perfect distance for unsupported life. In addition there are 6 other planets and 139 moons (adding a few every now and then), one asteroid belt, the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. Now that's enough recources to literally mine your ass of for some years. Actually the gross system product is only limited by the capital invested, including the money spent for labor power, read workers. The 3I is reigned by the megacorps, veiled as an aristocracy/oligarchy.

If a system is settled for the first time, why waste all the recources? Why not establish one full system colonization projectt instead of building a factory colony on star X1, a settlement colony on X2 and a prison planet on Y1, just to fill the subsector grid map? If we could recolonize the Sol-system with TL A or even the possibilities of today (fully used), Earth would make a wonderful settlement colony and the rest could be squeezed for goods. Small prospection colonies on the solid planets and the asteroids, gargantuan rafineries around Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, scientific research stations on comets, moons, asteroids etc. Military insatllations in the belts and the cloud. Giant sun-sails next to the sun (next in inverted commas). And every colony, settlement and base needs it's own facility. Some will not provide refueling services to outsiders, or will import fuel for thesemlves, others will have simply rocks to land on, and truly A and B starports will be scarce. But who cares? Major overhaules can be done in one type A port, since "A" qualifies quality, not size. Maybe all the facilities of a starport have to be together, just in the vicinity. Terra and Luna would qualify for "vicinity" and thus in Terras orbit you could have all the nice stuff, habitats and the needed docking facilities, while around and on Luna yards, rapair facilites and refueling takes place.
Consequently everything that has to be transported to Terra's population would be brought down to the "A" class star-port facilities above Terra, unloaded, distributed to small (compared: very small) shuttles (no you can't enter Terra's atmosphere with a 500,000 tons streamlined ship) and transportet to a network of ports on the surface. Preferably far away from the population. Baikonur, in the Sahara, Gobi-desert, Mongolia, Antarctis, inner Australia and so on. From Sahara everything goes to Europe, Gobi and Australia transport to the Pacific, Nunavut to North America, Antarctis to Pacific and South America and so on.
It's acutally foolish to go for only one (star) port only. And it's foolish to go for only one colony per star, unless there is only one body.

Buld cargo can be remote piloted easily from a mining outpost to a refinary, no one cares if the ore needs a year to go there, Traveller is slow anyways. Just use a cheap 1g thrusted big hull and push it on a steady course. A few buoys every week or so scan the freighter for damage and are equipped with powerful beacons to send the stuff to HQ. Every month or so a scout type repair ship drops by (jumping) to check the buoys, while the freighters head towards the target point.
Intra system jump is only valuable for goods that perish or living cargo (including humans) And here intra system jump is of great value, but it needs to be calculated. I would enter the Sol system via Zenith or Nadir. Here is the first huge space station that unloads the big freighters cargos and redistributes it on other ships, or just hands you out the newest data of the system and the bodies. This is necessary for precise calculation, since it's easy to calculate a nadir exit for jump space (it could be outside of the star's gravity), but it's more difficult to calculate a jump into a system (or "onto" the disk of planets and asteroids). After receiving the data, you jump towards the station that is close to your destination, then unload, or go the last couple of meters by thrusters.
A bit like in Freelancer, numerous waypoints define interstellar and interplanetar economy and goods exchange.

Of course it might take 50 years to build up such a giant colony in a system, but it's still cheaper than building ten colonies in 8 systems, and you can use thrusters for a lot of the stuff, which reduces upkeep costs greatly.


The Sol system alone can tell myriads of stories.

Urs
 
Well part of it is that initial paterns of colonization where resources outline consumers favor spreading out. Rather than concentrate large settlemtns in one area, which requires a huge amount of group cooperation, individuals and smaller groups spread out. They have less competition for resources and social factors like religion and government can be made more to thier liking.

Also many colonies are on worlds where the basic plaet is unihabitable, as are most of the worlds outside the habitable zone in any system. This means that colonies in satalleit worlds will, be smaller in general, as the whole colony must be self contained against the hostile envirnoment.

I do agree that one starport per system, particularly in a very populous system seems a bit less than likely. At the very least I would expect multiple space ports per system.

Of course a major reason for having only on starport per system is security..it allows you to concentrate your protective forces around a single point, rather then spread them out. For rich or industiral system with a population in the billions, this is not an issue, but for more marginal systems it is a bigger issue.
 
Canonically, Earth has 2 "Starports" Dirtside

AECO, in africa
Phoenix, In Arizona

Source: Invasion: Earth (Traveller Game 5, IIRC)

Plus there is the high-port.
 
As a thought regarding out-system starports, I have a few:

1) The Third Imperium would be the "Space Station Empire." The 3I probably base all of its operations from the out-system starport making it neatly the "Imperial canton" and show a neat divide for "extraterritoriality" of jurisdiciton in a system. That's where ship licensing and overhauls would be done, that's where the Scout, Navy, and X-Boat bases are. It would probably require the introduction of Imperial Common Law along with Imperial High Law but it'd be popular with free traders for the same reason that chain restaurants are popular in the real-world: No matter what system you go to, you know what you're getting. The station would be nice and far away from local conflicts.

2) Older systems, especially in the Core, probably have multiple outsystem starports. If you assume that T4 material is canon, the rival trading houses described in there don't seem to be the type who share (at least gracefully). Latecomers to a new system would probably build their own "outports" to avoid harassment and unfair taxation. Unless it's a subsidized spaceport, one could probably assume that most systems with class-A starports actually have multiple access points. This would be a mess of galactic proportions for the 3I to control and legislate (imagine the 3I ordering the shutdown of all but one starport - so everyone does. Now the hulks of the drifting stations become havens for "undocumented" ships and populations), but campaigns tend to thrive on such divides so I don't see it as being a bad thing.

3) Speculative traders would still visit the mainworld. Why? Because speculative trade goods tend to be stuff like novelties and local products that aren't seen to have a large market in the wider universe. Mboo Feather Cloaks might be the local fashion and might take off wildly in over on Regina, two jumps away - but probably not. Most locals don't think they would - nobody would be shipping such products to the "outport" just to sit around for months (or years) while captains of passing tramp freighters decide if it's worth the risk to ship or not - if your trader wants to find the hot new thing, he or she probably needs to visit the planet itself with that knack of his (or hers) to call what product will sell huge.

---

A side question:

Far-Trader's post about the one-week layover on a planet (and it vanishing if you have outsystem starports) brings up a question about Traveller that has always baffled me:

Why?

Why does a ship in 'straight' or 'canon' Traveller -need- to stay on a planet for a week? Why can't they just land, unload their cargo, pick up whatever, and and begin burning for their next destination? Heck, considering speeed of light communications outracing the ships themselves, couldn't the captains of all trading vessels approaching the highport get in on the "cargo bids" radio channel / computer network (after electronically filing their customs information which may or may not be subject to a follow up physical search) and already have their cargoes lined up by the time they arrive at the highport/downport? Then they could just land, exchange cargoes and be off again, probably with a turn-around of like a day.

My Traveller collection is a bit spotty at times, but is there some actual reason why they have to stay in there? As far as I can tell, the one week layover is a custom or tradition - a holdover whose roots are in Sylea or, more likely, those darn tradition-bound Vilani with their Jump-Dimming and beer that tastes like sweaty socks. One would expect the cutthroat Solomani merchants to ignore one week layovers on each planet to do precisely as Far-Trader says: Maximize profits. Soon that "custom" would go away as everyone else decides that the Solomani are making more money than they are.

If one assumes that speculative lot cargoes for Free Trader types take about a week to line up, then they'll be on the starport for about a week regardless of where the starport is. The same applies if this "one week layover" is for the sake of crew sanity.
 
That is a good question so I thought I'd do some research. I checked MT and found no reference to one week in port except for the following.

Berthing fees cover landing and 6 days in port.
Crew salaries are paid every 2 jumps assuming 1 week in jump and 1 in port.

I think I'll go check out starship operators manual. Back in a bit.
 
Hi !

IMHO there is no need to stay one week in system.
Important words to notice should be "usually" or "typical".
Considering a well organized merchant travel I expect a ship to rush into a system, do prepared trade actions and go on as fast as possible.
OTOH a real "Traveller" ship perhaps needs a bit more time to follow its business. But anyway I consider "the week" just to be a typical time frame, which might be shorter or even longer.

Besides, I agree with Your thoughts noted in 1-3


Regards,

Mert
 
How ya gonna advertise your next destination to potential high, mid, and low passengers?

If you zip in, dump your cargo, bid on more, speculate a bit...

How are you going o fit all that in? Don't you need to sleep, eat, whatnot?

How about at least sweeping out the place before your next load? :D
 
Originally posted by SanDragon:
How ya gonna advertise your next destination to potential high, mid, and low passengers?

If you zip in, dump your cargo, bid on more, speculate a bit...

How are you going o fit all that in? Don't you need to sleep, eat, whatnot?

How about at least sweeping out the place before your next load? :D
Good points. It would change the way things are done in Traveller, but again, many of the things in Traveller seem to be done by tradition than any other reason. Crew sanity might demand a ship spend longer than the minimum time in port, but probably like once a month as opposed to a week in every port.

Contrast OTU's strange world where freighters are somehow considered to be able to charge as much as passenger liners for passage, with the model that it was based on: Historical tramp freighters did carry passengers (it's a little known fact that some freighters still do - most people use airplanes), but usually they were considered a bit less savory as a method to travel. A bit off-topic but: Chances are freighters probably wouldn't charge as much as they do for passages. IMTU, freighters can only advertise for Mid Passage, never high, as they lack the stewards and amentities that High Passage would indicate.

In a world with "out ports" I would actually imagine there is something akin to a "bulletin board" which is like one-half newspaper Classified section and one-half eBay in most star systems. It'd probably be one of the protocols that 3I sets standards on. When you jump into a system and while you burn for the highport (or the "outport"), you log in using a combination of a password and identification (itself a combo between your Imperial ID and your ship's registry info).

As it takes a while for a ship to get to port itself, and communications move at lightspeed, it's possible for the ship to communicate with the spaceport as it comes in to bid on cargo lots and so on before they arrive at the starport. On this board would be listed everyone who is interested in passage and all parties who desire to ship cargo. Captains (unless they already had an itnerary set) would look at the cargo and passenger listings and consider where to go next accordingly.

Captains themselves don't need to announce their next port until they're leaving the port, though it's advantageous for them to do so as soon as possible - most captains actually announce their next port before they arrive at the spaceport. This allows for the classic "Sam Spade" style of cargo and passenger arrangement that is so important in Traveller where someone looks at the spaceport "eboard" and approaches the captain to have something shipped or to buy passage (1).

The sweeping out of the ship, the final arrangement of cargoes and passengers could probably be done in about a day on most busy starports, longer on less-busy destinations. People like the captain and the purser probably run themselves ragged during the time they are approaching the port and are in port. They can sleep during that boring week in jumpspace.


1. Sam Spade Traveller Captains: "She was the kind of gal I'm a sucker for. Legs that go on forever and blonde hair. She had that desperation in her voice when she asked if we still had cabins left on our trip to Mora. If every passenger who presented herself for passage looked like her, I'd seriously consider being a captain of a passenger liner. She told me she could pay the going rate, but only in Diarmij Rubies. Hell, I hadn't seen those since the Frontier War. I knew she'd be trouble, the rubies themselves can't be sold except to Psionics and they're illegal in Imperium. Who knows, Zho spy? Ine Givar? I didn't know, but the money was good..."
 
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Love it!

:D

And as I was posting my prior post, I did think of radioing in cargo aboard, passages available, and combing the local boards for outgoing passages and cargoes.
 
Originally posted by epicenter00:
People like the captain and the purser probably run themselves ragged during the time they are approaching the port and are in port.
Absolutely - in fact, the whole crew is busy during the week in port, which is the minimum necessary interval to locate and board passengers, secure and load cargo, and meet with various traders to buy and sell trade goods IMTU.

Let's take a look at the average free trader. During the week dirtside/highside (depending on the starport), the captain is busy meeting with various merchants and traders and handling the necessary paperwork for both the ship and his own mercantile efforts, such as obtaining import/export permits. The purser or steward acts as the ship's ticketing agent, drumming up passengers for the staterooms and low berths in the terminal, usually working from one of a series of generic desks set up for transient traders (as opposed to the dedicated ticketing counters of the larger lines). The medic is insuring that all health and safety regulations for crew, passengers and cargo are satisfied and supervising the general fitness for duty of his mates. The engineer oversees fueling, life support replenishment, and routine inspections, repairing or replacing components as necessary.

I don't hold to the idea that cargo and people are just sitting around the terminal waiting for a ship to load-and-go. There are likely to be other ships in port heading for the same destination(s) - it's up to the crew to attract passengers and shippers, and this takes time. (In-game, for particularly busy or slow starports, I'll subtract or add a die or modifier to passenger and cargo calculations to reflect the effects of competition with other ships servicing the same route.) And then there's competition for trade goods, which requires a considerable time-investment...

...which leads me back to the original poster...
Originally posted by jatay3:
Certainly little can be done that requires manuvering of the vessel.
I do think more time-in-system is at least sometimes needed.
I agree that interstellar trade adventures can devolve into simply arriving at the 100d j-point, transfering to and from the planet, and jumping out again at the same j-point if you let it.

On worlds with only a single starport and little development of other parts of the star system, then this model works. However, what if the reason the speculative cargo is offered at such a good price is the ship needs to pick it up on another planet in the system, or from a planetoid belt, or from a planet orbiting the mainworld's far companion star? What if one of those cargos waiting for pickup has a special handling proviso - the merchant gets CR 1500 per ton, but must deliver it to on outpost on the outermost planet in the system, or a belter city in a planetoid belt? How about a charter for someone who wants to move cargo too large for the available cutters or shuttles to handle in a single run the way a free trader can?

Personally I've never found myself wanting for ways to encourage a ship to spend some time maneuvering around the system.
 
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