Longterm starport parking

[Spartan159]

What percentage of the regular cost would be reasonable to park a ship off to the side as it were for an adventuring length of time? Could you arrange for your bank account to be debited for parking for an extended time? Does it cost anything for a "parking orbit"? Any thoughts relating to this that come to mind?

 

[Supplement Four]

What percentage of the regular cost would be reasonable to park a ship off to the side as it were for an adventuring length of time? Could you arrange for your bank account to be debited for parking for an extended time? Does it cost anything for a "parking orbit"? Any thoughts relating to this that come to mind?

Several good questions. I would say that this is all the realm of the Ref. And, as Ref, I would look at the world characteristics.

If the world has a quality Starport, high pop, and a good tech level. If I think the place has a lot of traffic, then I would think ships aren't allowed to go into close parking orbit. For a long term hangar, I'd look to real world circumstances--what does it cost to hangar a plane? Typical dock cost is X Credits per week, then the same amount per day after that. I'd probably go with the same X credits per month with the vessel stored.

If the world is low pop, with low regulation,and not much traffic. Then I'd think anything goes. Park in orbit. Find free places store the ship (under that tree--put this tarp on it) or cheap long term hangers.

 

[pendragonman]

Several good questions. I would say that this is all the realm of the Ref. And, as Ref, I would look at the world characteristics.

If the world has a quality Starport, high pop, and a good tech level. If I think the place has a lot of traffic, then I would think ships aren't allowed to go into close parking orbit. For a long term hangar, I'd look to real world circumstances--what does it cost to hangar a plane? Typical dock cost is X Credits per week, then the same amount per day after that. I'd probably go with the same X credits per month with the vessel stored.

If the world is low pop, with low regulation,and not much traffic. Then I'd think anything goes. Park in orbit. Find free places store the ship (under that tree--put this tarp on it) or cheap long term hangers.

I suspect it would be kind of like the private plane parking at airports. Hangers off to the side of the main concourse. Since character ships are not likely to be parts of official star lines, they would likely be using the "civil starfairing" part of the starport for landing anyway, so the trick would be finding a space in the private hangerspace just off the starport proper for long term storage. Being ON the starport proper would be the source of the docking fees quoted in the books, so if you want cheaper than that, you slide just off the starport.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Short term berthing: LBB2'81, p8:

5. Berthing Costs. Landing fees, handling costs, facilities use charges, and other starport fees are a common practice, and such costs must be paid as they occur. The average cost is Cr100 to land and remain for up to six days; thereafter, a Cr100 per day fee is imposed for each additional day spent in port. In some locations this fee will be higher, while at others local government subsidies will lower or eliminate it.

Long term parking: CT Adventure 3, p7:

Situations may also lead the characters to leave their ship locked at a starport for some period of time and to travel abroad on a world in search of adventure and riches. A ship left in such a situation costs Cr100 per week for storage and guard fees, but has no other costs.

 

[aramis]

Mothballing a vessel should have a cost. When players have decided to store vessels long term, I've use the cost to mothball as the same as an annual maintenance, and demothballing the same, but counting time mothballed as 1/10 in atmosphere, 1/100 in vaccuum, the time down.

And for truly long term storage, I've let players lease at Cr5000/year (a Cr200 savings over Adv 3's price.) And subjected that to a negotiation roll...

And, yes, I HAVE had players do that.

 

[whartung]

How long would you consider a starship can sit parked "with no maintenance" before it not being turnkey ready when you get back?

How long should the ship be parked before "mothballing" is necessary?

How much does it cost and what are the effects to bring a ship out of mothball?

What are the effect and costs to restore a ship that has sat for some time, but has not been "mothballed"

"We stumbled upon a Scout, sitting in the middle of a field on a remote planet. From the growth around the landing skids, it's been here for some time. No obvious foul play or damage, looks like the crew shut er down for the day, but never made it back."

 

[Enoki]

How long would you consider a starship can sit parked "with no maintenance" before it not being turnkey ready when you get back?

I'd put it at three to six months. This in part would depend on where it's sitting. The harsher the conditions, the shorter the time.

How long should the ship be parked before "mothballing" is necessary?

About the same length of time. I'd say no more than three months if you want to do it while the ship is in good condition.

How much does it cost and what are the effects to bring a ship out of mothball?

That would depend on the condition it entered mothballing in as well as the thoroughness with which it was mothballed.

What are the effect and costs to restore a ship that has sat for some time, but has not been "mothballed"

Again, this would depend on how thorough a restoration is done. "A bring it back up to spec" restore might cost as much as 30 to 50% of the cost of new, whereas a "Get it running" restore might run as little as 5 to 10%.

"We stumbled upon a Scout, sitting in the middle of a field on a remote planet. From the growth around the landing skids, it's been here for some time. No obvious foul play or damage, looks like the crew shut er down for the day, but never made it back."

There would be a large number of factors here. First, what was the material condition when it was left there? Was it forty years old and hadn't had proper maintenance in years, or was it nearly new and had all of the maintenance it was supposed to get?
How tightly was it sealed up? If the interior had an atmosphere and was left "as is", then it's a virtual certainty that "stuff" will be growing inside it wherever it can. That might require something like a toxic waste cleaning crew if it's been awhile.
If the hatches are open because it was abandoned and nobody really expected to come back, then there could be wildlife living in it, it could have been looted, who knows?
It certainly won't be a "Let's go kick the tires and light the fires..." ten minutes of inspection and you're off to the next system in jump ready ship.

 

[Spartan159]

I am curious, where are these values from? I would think a sealed and shut down starship would not go to rot that fast. If it got left open sure. But sealed? What's causing wear and tear, especially if it's in a hangar?

Let's even go a step further, a light mothballing if you will... Fuel drained, hooked up to power for keeping batteries charged, maybe even pumped full of inert gasses? I seem to recall mothballing rules in MT somewhere.

The scout on the planet, on the other hand, did they shut down the powerplant or did it run dry? If not dry what happens with any fuel left in the tanks? Exposed landing gear?

 

[Enoki]

I am curious, where are these values from? I would think a sealed and shut down starship would not go to rot that fast. If it got left open sure. But sealed? What's causing wear and tear, especially if it's in a hangar?

Let's even go a step further, a light mothballing if you will... Fuel drained, hooked up to power for keeping batteries charged, maybe even pumped full of inert gasses? I seem to recall mothballing rules in MT somewhere.

The scout on the planet, on the other hand, did they shut down the powerplant or did it run dry? If not dry what happens with any fuel left in the tanks? Exposed landing gear?

They're roughly what AMARC at Davis Monthan AFB uses for storing aircraft. There they go to pretty expensive lengths to make an airplane ready for long term storage where they can bring it back into service in 30 to 90 days. If you aren't going to do that the aircraft can deteriorate into a condition needing far more restoration in a matter of months.

Ships left in long term storage are the same way. Without careful preservation they pretty quickly get to a point where bringing them back into service is a major operation and expense.

Here's a civilian company that does this sort of work for aircraft.

http://maranaaerospace.com/

 

[kilemall]

I am curious, where are these values from? I would think a sealed and shut down starship would not go to rot that fast. If it got left open sure. But sealed? What's causing wear and tear, especially if it's in a hangar?

Let's even go a step further, a light mothballing if you will... Fuel drained, hooked up to power for keeping batteries charged, maybe even pumped full of inert gasses? I seem to recall mothballing rules in MT somewhere.

The scout on the planet, on the other hand, did they shut down the powerplant or did it run dry? If not dry what happens with any fuel left in the tanks? Exposed landing gear?

Solar flares, passing rock/dust/ice, etc.

Interior systems and material was chosen with the idea of something around human temperature, putting it to vacuum might cut off something growing but ultimately do damage from absolute zero.

Lack of use may cause issues too.

Without a professional mothballing, I would virtually always apply lack of maintenance effects, even if the ship is stowed away in a protected space.

 

[aramis]

I am curious, where are these values from? I would think a sealed and shut down starship would not go to rot that fast. If it got left open sure. But sealed? What's causing wear and tear, especially if it's in a hangar?

No gravity needed:
Volatilization of lubricants, desiccation and/or wet-rot of fabrics, mold, mildew, algae, Thermal expansion/contraction caused mechanical stress

In Vacuum
Radiation damage to electronics and volatiles, vacuum welding of metal-metal, vacuum desiccation of certain plastics and many natural fibers

In Gravity
Tidal stress induced flexation.

The oly ones which are short term are volitilization, mold, mildew, and algae... Tho radiation damage can be short term if flares happen.

 

[whartung]

Are the tanks insulated or actively cooled? What keeps LHyd fuel from going gaseous, particularly when the tanks are partially full. What happens when the LHyd in tanks thaw.

I imagine perhaps the ships have pressure relief valves when things go awry? Perhaps after sitting a while, a ship may well vapor out the bulk of its fuel.

 

[Enoki]

Are the tanks insulated or actively cooled? What keeps LHyd fuel from going gaseous, particularly when the tanks are partially full. What happens when the LHyd in tanks thaw.

I imagine perhaps the ships have pressure relief valves when things go awry? Perhaps after sitting a while, a ship may well vapor out the bulk of its fuel.

I've always considered them to be the equivalent of a Dewar bottle (aka Thermos or vacuum flask). That's about as efficient a means of storage as you can get for liquid gases. They have a pressure release that bleeds of the gas slowly, keeping pressure in the tank constant. The liquid hydrogen in this state would last weeks, or even months. You'd only be losing a small percentage a day and that is used as fuel too.
On ships with a fuel refining plant, they could simply process the off gas back into liquid and return it to the tanks.

The big improvement you'd need, and one that no doubt is possible within Traveller, is that the tank walls are impervious to leakage of hydrogen gas.

So, I'd think that you'd have no fuel or other liquid gasses after about a month or two left if the tanks were full. They'd simply bleed off until they were empty or nearly so.

 

[Spartan159]

Those Astromech maintenance droids are sounding like a good investment.

 

[aramis]

Don't forget that Hydrogen sublimates through almost every material... no matter how good the tank, it's GOING to lose some...

Oh, and your dewar flask is going to have a hydrogen atmosphere, not vacuum, after a couple years without being pumped out or opened to space...