General Looking for advice on military rockball landings.

[GLΩAMING]

Shameless outsourcing of thinking here, hope you don't mind...

In my campaign, the PCs must alert the Imperial Navy to a rogue cult attempting to rearm a ancient and decayed fleet in wild space. This mothballed fleet (TL 15) is located inside a crater approximately 10km in radius, surrounded by old infrastructure and defences (also TL 15) which have been partially restored by the cultists (who number in the few thousand). All located on an airless, tidally locked rock similar to Mercury.

Assuming the PCs provide approximately that information (and are believed!), what would the respect of the Imperial Navy be? What forces would they send? What would their strategy be when they arrived? Would they want to capture rather than destroy the target?

My current idea is something like this:

The Navy sends along a heavy cruiser or two, or perhaps a Battleship. Accompanied by escorts, tenders, etc. Maybe a Light Carrier too.

If no meson screen is in place, they fry the site with meson guns for a few days and then land the troop marine complements of the ships to clean up.

If there are screens, they operate in three stages:

Land BD marines via fall from orbit (no air, so it's fast and doesn't need an ablat shield) + grav belts to land safely, who then take out meson screens/nuclear dampers. Individuals are dropped rather than being carried via shuttles as shuttles are comparatively easy to hit.

Accompanied by targeted meson strikes from above on enemy weapon positions, more troops and armoured vehicles (if available) will be landed, who will occupy the crater while being supported by ortillery.

Prisoners are loaded onto shuttles and sent to low berths on ship, everyone goes home. A destroyer or two is left behind until a more permanent garrison can be established.

Is this more or less realistic, given the situation and the somewhat hidebound nature of the Imperial Navy?
I'd love to hear other ideas! Something about mine feels off.

 

[mike wightman]

Agent of the Imperium gives some pointers.

Find some asteroids that can be nudged into an intercept orbit with the planet in question.

Use shipboard makers to install m-drives and power plants to said asteroids.

Fire them up, wait a few months, watch the planet suffer catastrophic impacts.

 

[Kakistocrat]

In my campaign, the PCs must alert the Imperial Navy to a rogue cult attempting to rearm a ancient and decayed fleet in wild space. This mothballed fleet (TL 15) is located inside a crater approximately 10 km in radius, surrounded by old infrastructure and defences (also TL 15) which have been partially restored by the cultists (who number in the few thousand). All located on an airless, tidally locked rock similar to Mercury.

Assuming the PCs provide approximately that information (and are believed!), what would the respect of the Imperial Navy be? What forces would they send? What would their strategy be when they arrived? Would they want to capture rather than destroy the target?

How ancient and how decayed is the mothballed fleet, and how many warships are within the crater?

By “wild space”, do you mean “space not claimed by any great interstellar power”?

What is the current TL of the Imperial Navy in your campaign?

Is this [reaction by the Imperial Navy] more or less realistic, given the situation and the somewhat hidebound nature of the Imperial Navy?

I suppose it could depend upon how trustworthy the PCs’ contact in the Navy considers them to be. Even if their report is deemed reliable, I’d imagine that the Navy would want to have their own people stealthily reconnoitre the situation with the mothballed fleet on the planet before deciding that a site fry would be the most prudent course.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Assuming the PCs provide approximately that information (and are believed!):

1. What would the respect of the Imperial Navy be?
2. What forces would they send?
3. What would their strategy be when they arrived?
4. Would they want to capture rather than destroy the target?

1. Recon (in force) group that could potentially capture or if necessary destroy the rogue cult, provided the decayed fleet has not been awakened.
   
2. Strike Cruiser (LBB S9, p29) and/or Armored Cruiser (LBB S9, p30), depending on minimum jump required to reach destination. Sadly, a Light Cruiser (LBB S9, p28) lacks the necessary troop compliment for a credible marine landing force, although it would be possible to load "troop modules" into the 5x Cutters in order to have a platoon of marines equipped with GCarriers for mobility. However, a platoon of marines in GCarriers versus "a few thousand cultists" would require some pretty significant supporting fire to avoid marine casualties, so that would NOT be a good match up ... however, if the destination is only accessible by J5 ... you dance with the the one(s) that can bring you (probably a pair of Light Cruisers configured for ground attack).
   • If the IN doesn't lend too much credibility to the report, it would be hilarious if they assigned a (lowly) Vanguard Cruiser to the task of doing the scut work to "check if there's any truth to this report" and they jump in system with their black globe ON (so no jump flash!) with the marines on standby to drop using jump capsules if needed. Once again, you're looking at "not enough marines versus thousands of cultists" if things get kinetic, but complaints about that outcome can be directed "up the food chain" of command at HQ for not taking the report seriously enough.
3. Recon. Depending on what the recon discovers, command will make executive decisions. Note that Heavy Fighters (LBB S9, p26) make for excellent recon resources.
   
4. Depends on the risk assessment. If the defenses are too formidable, destroy will be an easier option than capture. The answer to this question is HIGHLY context and situation dependent.

 

[kilemall]

Throw in complications- several nobles been sucked into the cult and powerful relations want them rescued not obliterated.

A key lost tech is in this fleet that the IN wants recovered.

The real treasure is a 1000 crew wafers, which might hold the knowledge of what happened with this fleet, and what if the cultists start using the wafers to fix the fleet with unintended consequences…

 

[GLΩAMING]

ow ancient and how decayed is the mothballed fleet, and how many warships are within the crater?

By “wild space”, do you mean “space not claimed by any great interstellar power”?

What is the current TL of the Imperial Navy in your campaign?

The fleet is approximately 3,000 years old. Due to being bombarded by radiation and micrometeorites (and sometimes not so micro ones), only a fraction of the ships are able to be restored.
The ships that are present and repairable are a battleship equivalent to a Tigress class, as well as 6 or 7 escort vessels (10,000 dtons or below). All are repaired to the point at which they can fly, but they're only half functional otherwise and are still undergoing repairs on the ground. And they're crewed by fanatics rather than technically competent crew.

Yes, I should have specified. Neutral space about a dozen parsecs away from Imperial space.

The current year in my campaign is 1106, so the IN is equipped to TL 15

 

[TamsinP]

1. Recon (in force) group that could potentially capture or if necessary destroy the rogue cult, provided the decayed fleet has not been awakened.
   
2. Strike Cruiser (LBB S9, p29) and/or Armored Cruiser (LBB S9, p30), depending on minimum jump required to reach destination. Sadly, a Light Cruiser (LBB S9, p28) lacks the necessary troop compliment for a credible marine landing force, although it would be possible to load "troop modules" into the 5x Cutters in order to have a platoon of marines equipped with GCarriers for mobility. However, a platoon of marines in GCarriers versus "a few thousand cultists" would require some pretty significant supporting fire to avoid marine casualties, so that would NOT be a good match up ... however, if the destination is only accessible by J5 ... you dance with the the one(s) that can bring you (probably a pair of Light Cruisers configured for ground attack).
   • If the IN doesn't lend too much credibility to the report, it would be hilarious if they assigned a (lowly) Vanguard Cruiser to the task of doing the scut work to "check if there's any truth to this report" and they jump in system with their black globe ON (so no jump flash!) with the marines on standby to drop using jump capsules if needed. Once again, you're looking at "not enough marines versus thousands of cultists" if things get kinetic, but complaints about that outcome can be directed "up the food chain" of command at HQ for not taking the report seriously enough.
3. Recon. Depending on what the recon discovers, command will make executive decisions. Note that Heavy Fighters (LBB S9, p26) make for excellent recon resources.
   
4. Depends on the risk assessment. If the defenses are too formidable, destroy will be an easier option than capture. The answer to this question is HIGHLY context and situation dependent.

For J5 you also have the Lightning-class cruisers with 150 marines and 60 light fighters each.

 

[kilemall]

For J5 you also have the Lightning-class cruisers with 150 marines and 60 light fighters each.

And more importantly meson guns. A CruDiv should do for a kill in port mission if they aren’t fully operational. Rescue or capture or extract is probably going to require additional troop ships.

Reminds me a bit of this historical mission-

Attack on Mers-el-Kébir - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Yes, I should have specified. Neutral space about a dozen parsecs away from Imperial space.

Not an Imperial problem...

Scout the site, assess intentions. IF they intend to attack Imperial interests, intervene.

IF intervene, send overwhelming force (a BatRon should do it), kill the active battleship, study the rest of the ships for tech advantage.

 

[kilemall]

Not an Imperial problem...

Scout the site, assess intentions. IF they intend to attack Imperial interests, intervene.

IF intervene, send overwhelming force (a BatRon should do it), kill the active battleship, study the rest of the ships for tech advantage.

Ya BatRon if it’s active, my CruDiv suggestion assumes only partly functional threat.

 

[Commander Truestar]

So, "First", the Imperial Navy works hand in hand with the ISS....So, any initial action would be "Investigation and surveillance"

That means a flight(2 or 3) of Scout craft would be dispatched to locate and confirm the site of the report.
One ship from the flight would respond back to base while the rest would establish a "geostatic" location in the solar system where they could
maintain observation and determinable coordinates for laser comms with arriving ships.
NOTE: All Scouts would arrive far enough out-system that the "tachyon flash" of jump arrival would dissipate before being detected by any
security presence the cultists have mounted

Are the ships dirtside on a planet or moon, or drifting in space?
My answer: dirt side - because ships drifting in space would have lost all station keeping and been pulled into gravity wells or drifted off over
long periods adrift

So, now the Navy knows this is real and has validated the location.
The Admiralty would consider limits (Based on the comment above, is there something/someone that must or should be recovered)
Qualifications for the mission would likely be Jump-4+ Strike cruisers and carriers in a fleet element under a Commodore
The "weapon of choice" would likely be the "Rod of God", straight kinetic strike weapons

The tactical operation:
The Imperial Navy forces arrive well out-system, and accompanied by returning elements of the ISS flight already on recon/observation in-
system
All arriving ships would burn in-system carefully and discreetly, (IE: very brief periods of up thrust followed by drifting) to avoid detection
During the approach, Naval commanders would work with in-system Scout personnel to determine a "Fire position" which would:
1) allow the strike vessels to launch kinetic strike rods unobserved
2) allow the kinetic strike rods to drift toward the strike target inertly, to avoid detection
(given the size and composition of the rods, the odds they would be detected are incredibly small)

Assuming there is no orbital over-watch
Once the rods are deployed, the calculated flight (including gravitational effects of "in-theater" bodies) would have been calculated to
bring the ordinance into the correct strike path until the ordinance either strikes targets or needs a final course adjustment.
At the point a final course adjustment is needed, the ordinance is less than a minute out so detection is meaningless
(IE: They'll only have time enough to realize they're gonna die)

Once the wave of strikes is done, the naval and scout vessels close in over the site while manning landing craft and vessels assigned
"In-atmosphere overwatch".
Those vessels with orbital bombardment capable weapons will use sensors to verify all grounded vessels are significantly damaged
and unable to lift or use remaining weapons systems
Flights of fighter squadrons will be launched to both scrape remaining weapons systems off all still-functioning hostile vessels as well
as have weapons packages which can damage/disable hostile vessel flight drive systems
Combat-operational troops would be landed to engage any and all hostile forces, and would link up with potential investigative
teams landed previous to naval arrival to investigate the dirt-side situation.

"If" there are key recoverables, that will be reflected in the initial attack strike pattern and will or may require some of the ground
assault teams to be trained and graded(Given mission-only command rank) to give specific orders to other forces in order to
access and secure specified targets or assets.

Mop up and remaining site security will be handled by Imperial Navy senior command in-system while the existing ISS forces would remain on-station to handle interstellar communications and other "side investigation"


Of course, most of that assumed the cultists didn't have a ship or more in orbit for approach over-watch.
In the event that is not the case, the approach will be "in force" and more dynamic with those hostiles caught on the ground being fully aware of the strikes before they happen. The orbital assault phase would then trigger on disabling all operational orbital forces.

Naval assets would move in to secure those disabled vessels while assault naval assets would bombard from orbit using the Rods of God.
Targeting of those ordinance would be based on reports generated by in-system Scout investigations to determine where ground-based
shelters and rally points might be located for bombardment targeting.
Where Scout data supports it, kinetic bombardment can target the engineering spaces of all grounded vessels.


Clean up:
Once the site is secured, key assets recovered and prisoners secured
1) Questioning begins to uncover other locations, conspirators, and recover other valued data
2) ISS information couriers are dispatched to request follow-on clean up forces
3) Engineers and other technicians arrive with follow-on forces to strip down the remaining vessel frames, removing all working systems before
abandoning the stripped hulls in place

 

[Enoki]

If you want the ships intact, send down a drone swarm of ones that walk and others that fly that are programmed to seek out organic life heat signatures (eg., 'cultists') and blow them up. Send down a couple thousand. If these are, say, the size of a smart phone or so, and when within a meter or two of a target they detonate and frag the target. After a set time period, they move to a predesignated point where they immolate themselves.
The Imperial navy can sit back and watch the fun...

Just to make sure, afterwards send in an orbital source that generates a very strong magnetic field to redirect solar wind into a concentrated stream of radiation and particles into the crater and annihilate everything organic in it.

 

[Spinward Flow]

At the point a final course adjustment is needed, the ordinance is less than a minute out so detection is meaningless
(IE: They'll only have time enough to realize they're gonna die)

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So, "First", the Imperial Navy works hand in hand with the ISS....So, any initial action would be "Investigation and surveillance"

That means a flight(2 or 3) of Scout craft would be dispatched to locate and confirm the site of the report.

Yes, theoretically...

But, given the enduring love and trust between the IN and the ISS, I would suspect a navy vessel would investigate. Whether that would be INI or a tin can would be up to local availability and CO prejudice.

 

[Commander Truestar]

Yes, theoretically...

But, given the enduring love and trust between the IN and the ISS, I would suspect a navy vessel would investigate. Whether that would be INI or a tin can would be up to local availability and CO prejudice.

Sorry, but I feel you're over dramatizing a bit.
During my military service, I shifted from pure-Air Force service to training on a US Army Camp.
I next shifted to working with Marines.
Yes, there was some level of person-to-person antipathy.
I even beat a few Marines up, but that was just "level setting" expectations more or less.

The ultimate answer is that Command makes the decisions and we operate.
Regardless of inter-service rivalry, and especially after the 5FW, units in a task group are used to their strength as interpreted by command.
It worked (badly) that way on Grenada, it worked better in "other places" and only failed in Iran because of...."other reasons" outside the
pure military chain of command

So, IMO....which can very well be counter to your opinion...Command would send the ISS assets in first.
Especially since they have been in-system and observing the targets the entire time......so, they'd have the best situational awareness and intel

 

[mike wightman]

No.
The Imperium is not the USA in space.

There is a great deal of difference between the IISS and the IN, and it is not so much of interservice rivalry as it is completely different organisations getting in each other's way.

There used to be another Imperial space service, the quarantine service. They IN made sure the QS went away and took on their remit as well.

To become a IN officer you require considerable social standing, the IISS field service doesn't even have a rank structure.

And my experience here in the UK is for considerable rivalry.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Sorry, but I feel you're over dramatizing a bit.

Yes, of course...

Near old Japanese levels of inter-service rivalry adds a bit of spice to an otherwise monolithic and bland Imperium.

 

[Kakistocrat]

The fleet is approximately 3,000 years old. […] The ships that are present and repairable are a battleship equivalent to a Tigress class, as well as 6 or 7 escort vessels (10,000 dtons or below). All are repaired to the point at which they can fly, but they’re only half functional otherwise and are still undergoing repairs on the ground. And they’re crewed by fanatics rather than technically competent crew. […] The current year in my campaign is 1106, so the IN is equipped to TL 15

From an economic perspective, how worthwhile would it be for the Imperial Navy to fully repair vessels that are 3,000 years old? Would they become enormous museum exhibits after their restoration? Is there any lost knowledge to be gleaned from these vessels, given that both the mothballed fleet and the current Imperial Navy are at TL 15?

Yes, I should have specified [what “wild space” is]. Neutral space about a dozen parsecs away from Imperial space.

If vessel reclamation and restoration has been rejected by the Navy, is part of the appeal of the “site fry” strategy to deny other powers the possibility of acquiring the repairable vessels? Are the cultists known to be anti-Imperial, rather than, say, merely isolationist? Is the cultists’ stellar system part of a planned Imperial annexation in the next few generations?

 

[Commander Truestar]

Yes, of course...

Near old Japanese levels of inter-service rivalry adds a bit of spice to an otherwise monolithic and bland Imperium.

That is another way to go,
and, as I said, that was my opinion where there are other opinions.....which are all equally valid.
Especially given @mike wightman 's comments and the very very valid competitions within the Armed Forces of the UK.

Though I am sure no one there (or, certainly not here in the US) would cast aspersions on the SAS. (Not that SpecF has any bearing on this conversation)

 

[GLΩAMING]

From an economic perspective, how worthwhile would it be for the Imperial Navy to fully repair vessels that are 3,000 years old? Would they become enormous museum exhibits after their restoration? Is there any lost knowledge to be gleaned from these vessels, given that both the mothballed fleet and the current Imperial Navy are at TL 15?

Probably not, to all of these. I generally wouldn't repair something that uses specifications older than my interstellar state. And the idea of repairing an ancient battleship at the cost of millions of credits to serve as a museum piece sounds like a far, far future Onion article.

If vessel reclamation and restoration has been rejected by the Navy, is part of the appeal of the “site fry” strategy to deny other powers the possibility of acquiring the repairable vessels? Are the cultists known to be anti-Imperial, rather than, say, merely isolationist? Is the cultists’ stellar system part of a planned Imperial annexation in the next few generations?

"Limited site fry with smaller scale troop deployment" is the idea I'm currently going with for Imperial strategy here. They may want to know how an outborder cult got enough resources to even consider repairing these things, and how this mothballed fleet wasn't red-flagged beforehand. It's hard to gather evidence if the site and all its inhabitants have been fried by meson fire.

Are the cultists known to be anti-Imperial, rather than, say, merely isolationist?

I feel like an isolationist cult wouldn't be repairing battleships...
As for whether the neutral system is planned to be incorporated into the Imperium, no. However, it is located between the Imperium and other significant interstellar powers, relatively near vital trade links. Probably worthy of intervention.