Mail cost

[Icosahedron]

How much does mail cost?

I figure the cheapest form of interstellar information transfer will be email. Small quantities may be carried aboard the ship's computer, but bulk email is more likely to be carried on portable storage media, the data from thousands or millions of clients being loaded onto 'disks' belonging to the Mail Service, and then physically carried in the mail lockers of ships.

The next cheapest will be 'letters', probably important legal documentation that for various reasons can't be sent electronically.

Then there will be 'packets', presumably items that are too sensitive, important or valuable to travel as freight and which will form perhaps the bulk of the mail delivery.

(If you have an alternative view of the mail locker contents, please discuss).

But how much does information transfer cost?
LBB 2 p8 tells us that ships are paid 5000Cr per dton, (so presumably the Mail Service charges the customer considerably more than this) and that private messages may be carried for a fee of 20-120Cr. (The only reason I would trust a total stranger to carry my important documents is if the official channels cost MUCH more - or didn't exist at all).

Any ideas?

 

[far-trader]

The only thing I can think to add officially is the cost of X-Boat data transmissions. But I can't recall where it is or how much it is.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by far-trader:
The only thing I can think to add officially is the cost of X-Boat data transmissions. But I can't recall where it is or how much it is.

It's in the Traveller Adventure. I won't have one handy to look it up until later.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

Xmail: Messages sent by xboat. Xmail carries information
only; material objects may not be sent. The message
is digitally coded; xmail costs CrlO per 20 kilobits per
parsec. The message may be sent using a standard Anglic
character set (about CrlO for a 500 word message) or a
picture may be reproduced in facsimile (Cr20 for a
200 x 200 bit matrix). The message is printed out at its
destination and delivered by a world's local mail system.

 

[Plankowner]

The modern world is already moving to electronic legal signatures etc. I think that in the next 5000 years, fully electronic legal documents will be around. I don't know that there would be much need for actual physical paperwork to move between the stars.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Xmail: Messages sent by xboat. Xmail carries information
only; material objects may not be sent. The message
is digitally coded; xmail costs CrlO per 20 kilobits per
parsec. The message may be sent using a standard Anglic
character set (about CrlO for a 500 word message) or a
picture may be reproduced in facsimile (Cr20 for a
200 x 200 bit matrix). The message is printed out at its
destination and delivered by a world's local mail system.

</font>[/QUOTE]Another useful item in the Traveller Adventure is a chart showing "information spread" between worlds.

For example, an alert goes out about a possible pirate vessel that has been spotted. The chart shows how long that message takes to get to the world's neighbors.

It's very useful to figuring how old "news" is when the PC hear it, and things like that.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
The modern world is already moving to electronic legal signatures etc. I think that in the next 5000 years, fully electronic legal documents will be around. I don't know that there would be much need for actual physical paperwork to move between the stars.

This is a good point to illuminate.

Classic Traveller is so old (and many other versions of Traveller too) that sometimes the same idea in the rules can be used, but it should be updated a bit.

For example, the computer rules and starship combat in CT. I still use the rules as-is, but do I think the computer is this huge, room-sized thing that is typically situated next to the bridge? Nope. That room that shows up on CT deck plans is a nerve-center room for the computer in my game. The computer itself is spread throughout the ship--a network so integral to the ship that it cannot be separated from it. Several CPUs govern several computers throughout the vessel, from the computer that analyzes a type of sensor data, to the computer that monitors the jump field, to the computer that simply opens and closes a hatch automatically as a crewmember approaches it.

Same thing goes for the "Space" requirement of the computer. Do I play as if these computer programs are so huge that the computer can't actaually store them? No. The "Space" requirement is actually a measure of the drain on the ship's RAM-analog. These programs are actually multiple programs that interact with various systems on the ship. Running them all-together is a massive drain on ship's computer resources, thus the "Space" restriction.

And, let's not forget "jump cassettes". Yes, I have them in my game, but are they actually casettes with jump coordinates on magnetic tape? Nope. In French, the term "cassette" means "small box". So, in my game, when you buy a jump cassette, you're paying the starport to calculate jump coordinates for you, and they lump all these coordinates that they generate for you into a "small box" for you to take with you to your ship.

Of course, you don't go and actually pick up the cassette and physically take it to your ship. The data is transferred to your ship wirelessly while its sits in dock. The data stream is delivered in a small packet...a small box...you guessed it...a cassette.

I haven't changed any of these rules. I'm using them just like they were used back in 1977 when CT hit the shelves.

It's just that I think of the rules differently. In 1977, I'm sure players thought of jump cassettes as something that was physically picked up and inserted to a drive somewhere on the bridge. Here I am, 30 years later, using the exact same rule, but considering the term "cassette" describes the wireless information packet the ship receives from the starport.

Same exact rule. Different way of thinking about it.

 

[Icosahedron]

Originally posted by Plankowner:
The modern world is already moving to electronic legal signatures etc. I think that in the next 5000 years, fully electronic legal documents will be around. I don't know that there would be much need for actual physical paperwork to move between the stars.

Yeah, right, I'll believe the 'paperless society' when I see it. My paperwork has tripled since the 'electronic revolution' :-/

Maybe it'll be a traditional thing. Paper's got the Traveller 'retro feel' like the slug-throwers and cutlasses.

Thanks for the feedback guys. There doesn't seem to be much in canon about mail costs. What do you do IYTU, make it up?

 

[aramis]

I look at it this way:
one ton of mail pays Cr5K to the carrier per jump.

So... mark up 100% for admin costs.

Assume about 25% packing losses for the secure hoppers. Canonical tons are 13.5 and 14 Cubic meters...

That gives us Cr1000 per cubic meter. About Cr1 per liter per jump.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
There doesn't seem to be much in canon about mail costs.

You don't consider the Traveller Adventure canon?

 

[Straybow]

Originally quoted by Andrew Boulton:
Xmail: Messages sent by xboat. Xmail carries information
only; material objects may not be sent. The message
is digitally coded; xmail costs CrlO per 20 kilobits per
parsec. The message may be sent using a standard Anglic
character set (about CrlO for a 500 word message) or a
picture may be reproduced in facsimile (Cr20 for a
200 x 200 bit matrix). The message is printed out at its
destination and delivered by a world's local mail system.

"Kilobits"... how long ago was that written? I remember the ancient IBM 1620 at the High School had 20 kilobits of core memory. The only thing it was good for was making two color character art. The term "byte" has been around for 50 years with slightly varying definitions.

That pricing is comparable to telegrams back in 300 baud days, rather than early digital storage rates. Anyone know how much computer tape cost in the '70s? By 1980 we had floppy disks that would carry 90kbytes for a few dollars.

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Aramis:
I look at it this way:
one ton of mail pays Cr5K to the carrier per jump.

So... mark up 100% for admin costs.

Assume about 25% packing losses for the secure hoppers. Canonical tons are 13.5 and 14 Cubic meters...

That gives us Cr1000 per cubic meter. About Cr1 per liter per jump.

Dang, man, that's cheaper than current airmail rates! Hold it, even cheaper than USPS bulk mail rates!!

 

[Spinward Scout]

So, just how much could an X-Boat hold in Data Storage? 3500 years from now, that is. Once you figure out how much it takes to operate the X-Boat (including the X-Boat Tender), you can easily figure out how much they charge to transport the data.

I mean, think about it: let's say the X-Boat has an 80 GigaByte hard drive. Forget the facsimile part for a minute. That harddrive can store (if I did the calculation right) 640 MILLION kilobits. Divide that by 20 kilobits and multiply it by Cr10. That one X-Boat at full storage capacity on ONE 80 GB harddrive can generate about 300 MILLION CREDITS per parsec. Maximum 4 Parsecs per jump for the X-Boat having a J-4 drive and that's 1.2 Billion Credits for a storage capacity that fits in the palm of my hand.

IF I did my calculations right, I'm buying stock in the X-Boat network!

 

[aramis]

About Cr1 approximates 1975$5 per liter, when 1st class was (IIRC) about $0.15 for up to one ounce...

Let's see, we can stack 10x20x5cm, at 5mm, 10 letters at $0.15=$1.50/L, vs $5/L for interplanetary... works for me.

 

[Icosahedron]

So to repeat my earlier question, if interstellar mail is so cheap (and even then makes billions for the X-boats) why would travellers pay 20-120Cr to a total stranger to carry a letter for them?

It sounds messed up to me, and I think maybe I should start from scratch with a mail transfer house-rule.

Making it up as I type:

Email by X-boat will be free - the system is there to transfer strategic government information. Public data is transferred in any remaining space for free - all you need is to rent an Xmail account. The account can, of course, be monitored, and is costed to make a reasonable profit for the X-boat. (TBA - help gratefully received) Perhaps 120Cr/year?
This gets rid of ridiculous X-boat profits.

Letters and packages are a sort of insured, registered mail system - letters are a traditional thing, particularly in legal circles.
This costs 5000Cr/dton, or 360Cr/m^3 or 0.36Cr/litre so cost to customer is say, 1Cr per litre or part thereof. Mail is much less likely to go missing than general cargo.
This creates a niche for the mail compartment.

However, Registered Mail is logged. The authorities might not know its exact contents (though X-rays will be taken and logged) but they will know the names and addresses of the sender and recipient, along with the date and registered value.

So, there may be certain circumstances in which somebody might want something sending somewhere without the authorities knowing.
This explains the potential 20-120Cr for a clandestine transfer.

How does that sound?

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
... if interstellar mail is so cheap (and even then makes billions for the X-boats) why would travellers pay 20-120Cr to a total stranger to carry a letter for them?

Clearly there's something very suspect about that letter ...

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
Small quantities may be carried aboard the ship's computer, but bulk email is more likely to be carried on portable storage media, the data from thousands or millions of clients being loaded onto 'disks' belonging to the Mail Service, and then physically carried in the mail lockers of ships.

I must strongly disagree with this.

Supplement 9: Fighting Ships, shows that one view of the basic X-Boat is TL-10.

At TL-10, fixed storage will make available titanic capacities.

We're not talking about an 80 GB HD here, we're talking not talking about the 1 TB HDs that are almost right around the corner today, we're talking petabytes of storage.

A single X-Boat could easily carry hundreds of petabytes, possibly thousands, given the size of its computer system.

The vast majority of information will not be moved in portable media, physically carried from location to location.

An X-Boat will drop out of jump space and immediately download over a multi-channel radio or laser comm system all portions of its data load meant for the local system (or surrounding systems) to a waiting X-Boat Tender. That information will either be downloaded to a nearby world and its information net, or will be retained for transfer to another X-Boat and/or Scount/Couriers headed in other directions.

The same X-Boat will accept an upload by comm systems while it is refueling for its next jump.

That is the way electronic messages move, at least IMTU.

The only physical transfers of electronic information will be for the occasional movement of archival or secure data by portable media.

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
The next cheapest will be 'letters', probably important legal documentation that for various reasons can't be sent electronically.

I agree that physical media documentation will still be extant, especially with the traditionalist Vilani being so wide-spread.

The Cr5,000/dTon mail rate is the shipping rate for the extant physical package trade. I would imagine that the fee for mail would be something like Cr20-25/liter/jump, or something like that (since its volume based). That allows for Cr20,000-25,000 in sales against the Cr5,000/dTon shipping fee.

Originally posted by Icosahedron:
(The only reason I would trust a total stranger to carry my important documents is if the official channels cost MUCH more - or didn't exist at all).

The X-Boat network doesn't go everywhere, and Scout/Couriers and Subsidized Merchants with mail contracts aren't always going to be in port or going in the direction you need.

Sometimes, you just have to send a message.

In the age of sail, that sort of thing happened all the time.

Of course, there were ships you wouldn't trust a message aboard even then, so I would imagine it would be the same in the 57th Century.

 

[RainOfSteel]

Originally posted by The Traveller Formerly Known As...:
I mean, think about it: let's say the X-Boat has an 80 GigaByte hard drive. Forget the facsimile part for a minute. That harddrive can store (if I did the calculation right) 640 MILLION kilobits.

When I go to Google and type in, "80 gigabytes in kilobits", the Google-calculator goes to work and spits out, "80 gigabytes = 671,088,640 kilobits".

 

[BillDowns]

According to Supplement 7 - Traders and Gunboats.

An Xboat will jump in, download to the Station, which in turn sorts, extracts and collates the messages, then uploads to another Xboat ready to jump out. Turn-around time is from 10 minutes to an hour.

The inbound Xboat is picked up, refurbished, and a new pilot assigned before it is ready to jump out again.

The Type S is used to fill-in the gaps in the Xboat network.

 

[Straybow]

Hey, those lazy Scouts gotta do something to earn their keep.