Man-Kzin Wars and Traveller

[Supplement Four]

I've been reading the Man-Kzin Wars series recently. It's not what I thought it would be at all. I thought I was getting into familiar sci-fi military tales. I was so surprised. There's some excellent sci-fi writing in this series folks! EXCELLENT sci-fi stories!

I was appalled to read that the Kzinti breed the intellegence out of their women. They genetically reduce them to the intellegence level of a dolphin, or even a smart dog. All they're used for is breeding!

Wow.

I recommend the series.

Here's a link to the first book in the series:

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Kzin-Wars...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196047414&sr=1-1

I was reading "Iron" tonight, written by Poul Anderson, and I was thinking what a great Traveller adventure this would make. The PCs would be the protagonists in the story (Saxtorph and crew). It would be set somewhere in the coreward part of the Imperium, bordering Vargr space (probably close to the Spinward Marches). The war that just past would be the Fourth Frontier War, with the time-setting of the adventure just before the Fifth Frontier War. Replace the Kzinti with the Vargr. Maybe throw in some Zhodani intrigue (especially replacing the Kzinti telepaths)...

...and, waa-laaa, there's one very neat Traveller adventure for you to play.

The story lends itself well, with a few tweaks, to the Traveller universe.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Oh, absolutely. Have you read the story about the "zoo" world, yet? There's a Kzin female there that will knock your socks off! No docile idiot, this one.

 

[Supplement Four]

Oh, absolutely. Have you read the story about the "zoo" world, yet? There's a Kzin female there that will knock your socks off! No docile idiot, this one.

Absolutely. That's the two stories in MKW-1 and MKW-2 by Dean Ing. Absolutely fantastic stuff.

I really thought MKW was going to be usual military sci-fi fare. It's not. It's definitely not.

Highly, highly recommended.

(I understand a new MKW is due out in '08 as well.)

 

[Jame]

I tried MKW #1 and couldn't get into it. I read, oh, the first story, got bored and gave the book to a library.

 

[Supplement Four]

I tried MKW #1 and couldn't get into it. I read, oh, the first story, got bored and gave the book to a library.

The very first story isn't very good. But, it's, what, 26 pages? It was one of the first stories Larry Niven ever wrote.

Some people love Larry Niven. I haven't read enough of him to judge (never read Ringworld or Mote in God's Eye or any of his other classic sci-fi works), but I have read all of his Man-Kzin stuff. To be honest, I really don't like Niven's MKZ stuff. Ironic, I know, since the stories are set in his Known Space Universe.

You should really give MKW another shot, though, if Niven is all you read. Like you, I read the very first story back in the day (I think just after it was published in the 80's), and I couldn't get into it either.

But, once you get past that story, you're onto Poul Anderson, then Dean Ing. Both have exceptional tales to tell. And, both return in later editions of MKZ to write sequels to their stories.

It is good stuff.

(And, I'm surprised no one has made the Kzin = Aslan distinction yet. I chose the Vargr above, but the Aslan are similar to the Kzin in many respects as well.)

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I was appalled to read that the Kzinti breed the intellegence out of their women. They genetically reduce them to the intellegence level of a dolphin, or even a smart dog. All they're used for is breeding!

There's one story about a woman captured by a Kzin mad scientist that really should come with a government health warning. It reduced me to a gibbering heap on the floor.

 

[ditzie]

...The war that just past would be the Fourth Frontier War, with the time-setting of the adventure just before the Fifth Frontier War. Replace the Kzinti with the Vargr. Maybe throw in some Zhodani intrigue (especially replacing the Kzinti telepaths)...

Hmmm, you (inadvertently?) made me think of Vargr telepaths. How interesting that would be...

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

(I understand a new MKW is due out in '08 as well.)

A new one coming out next year?

You sir, have just made my day.

 

[JAFARR]

Not sure, but there might even be a short story or two in some of Pournelle's "There will Be War" series. Which brings up another great series of SF.

Added: I know the story of the first Man-Kzin contact was in some collection of short stories other MKW.

 

[GypsyComet]

The first story, being the only one Niven wrote in that period for a VERY long time, is a little rough, but it was written decades ago. Niven skipped this period in his books because he isn't a "war" writer and knows it. He decided to throw the era of the Man-Kzin Wars open to others, and got some amazing stories. There are a few duds as well, but if you never read the duds you will never really appreciate how good the rest are.

 

[Supplement Four]

A new one coming out next year?

You sir, have just made my day.

Jeff, did you know about this one, Destiny's Forge, that just came out in paperback?

http://www.amazon.com/Destinys-Forg...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196147178&sr=1-1

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Jeff, did you know about this one, Destiny's Forge, that just came out in paperback?

http://www.amazon.com/Destinys-Forg...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1196147178&sr=1-1

I do now!

(Got to admit, I've been reading John Scalzi lately. He's a new writer, but just as good as Niven, Pournelle, Steele, Clarke, or Heinlein.)

 

[navywarlord]

(And, I'm surprised no one has made the Kzin = Aslan distinction yet. I chose the Vargr above, but the Aslan are similar to the Kzin in many respects as well.)

I have several of the MKW books and have played some of my Aslan NPC remote colonies similar to Kzinti... After all, if an Aslan colony ship(fleet) got lost and settled on a remote world far outside the standard shipping lanes, whos to say that they wouldn't independently develop into a Kzinti type society?

 

[Gadrin]

The Warriors was fairly decent. I rather liked the tension of the two ships being apart and not really knowing everything about the other, unlike a Trek show.

I never got past that into the others, though. I recently picked up the MKW IV for the "Man who would be Kzin" but still haven't gotten to it.

 

[Supplement Four]

From "Iron" by Poul Anderson in MKW I

Ponderously, Rover closed velocities with the iron asteroid. She couldn't quite match, because it was under boost, but thus far the acceleration was low.

Ominously aglow, the molten mass dwarfed the spacecraft that toiled meters ahead of it; yet Sun Defier, harnessed by her own forcefield, was a plowhorse dragging it bit by bit from its former path; and the dwarf sun was at work, and Secunda's gravity was beginning to have a real effect...

Arrived a little before the ship, the boat drifted at some distance, a needle in a haystack of stars. Laurinda was still aboard. The tug had no place to receive Shep, nor had the girl the skill to cross safely by herself in a spacesuit even though relative speeds were small. The autopilot kept her accompanying the others.

=====================



As I read this, I can see a Traveller adventure unfolding. By CT rules, it'd be a 10+ throw to cross, in a vacc suit, between vessels. Each Vacc Suit skill level provides a +4 DM per skill level.

Poor Laurninda doesn't have the skill. She's got Vacc Suit-0 at best. The 10+ throw is too risky.

The others, skilled spacers, are either throwing 6+, possibliy lowered to 5+ or 4+ due to their DEX benefits, or it's an automatic throw (at Vacc Suit-2 or better) to make the crossing.

 

[JFZeigler]

I noticed that at least one of the Man-Kzin Wars authors is pretty obviously a Traveller fan. When I read Destiny's Forge I kept seeing references to "spinal mounts" and even to "meson cannon," the latter of which is obviously a Travellerism.

Of course, then I started noticing that he was re-writing another classic SF novel, plot point for plot point, with half-ton sentient tigers. Which was a little annoying.

 

[Supplement Four]

Of course, then I started noticing that he was re-writing another classic SF novel, plot point for plot point, with half-ton sentient tigers. Which was a little annoying.

I haven't read Destiny's Forge yet. Are you saying it's based on another SF novel?

I know that some of the S.M. Sterling & Pournelle stories are based on classic films, but they were trying to do that. Their story in MZW I is based on Casablanca, while their story in MZW II is based on The African Queen. Again, that was by design.

And...meson guns only appear in Traveller?

 

[JFZeigler]

I haven't read Destiny's Forge yet. Are you saying it's based on another SF novel?

Very strongly so.

I know that some of the S.M. Sterling & Pournelle stories are based on classic films, but they were trying to do that. Their story in MZW I is based on Casablanca, while their story in MZW II is based on The African Queen. Again, that was by design.

Yeah, that was kind of clever at the time. And Destiny's Forge was not actually a bad read. It's just that you can predict almost exactly what's going to happen next once you realize what's going on.

And...meson guns only appear in Traveller?

The only places I've seen them are in Traveller and in Destiny's Forge, although I understand there's a "meson cannon" in one of the Ace Combat computer games.

The physical idea behind them is kind of silly. Mesons decay, sure, but the decay time is incredibly short - and it isn't fixed, except in the sense that you can statistically determine a mean decay time. Fire a meson beam at an enemy ship and the vast majority of the mesons would decay in front of it or behind it, and you'd apply effectively no energy to the target.

Your usual hard-SF author would know that . . . but if he had heard the idea from somewhere, say by playing Traveller a lot, and wanted some throwaway language to describe armed spaceships in a novel . . .

 

[Supplement Four]

I bought Destiny's Forge. I see that Amazon has a good rating on it, but there haven't been that many people who have rated it.

What's the classic SciFi novel its base on?

What you're describing sounds to me akin to reading The Sword of Shannara after The Lord of the Rings.

 

[JFZeigler]

What's the classic SciFi novel its base on?

Sent you a private message, since I don't want to spoil it for anyone else.