Marine's Cutlass Focus

[Ryan Gleason]

The Marine class is listed as having the weapon focus feat with a cutlass, but they are not given the Weapon Proficiency feat in Swordsman. You cannot have a weapon focus unless you are already proficient in that weapon, so it would seem that this is contradictory. Should the Swordsman feat be added, or am I missing something else somewhere?

 

[far-trader]

Had me worried for a second.

I was pretty sure I had looked at the Marine class and saw it. Just double checked and yep they do have the Weapon Proficiency (Swordsman) as one of the Starting Feats. You must have just missed it I guess.

 

[far-trader]

Oh and welcome aboard Garret Jax

 

[Ryan Gleason]

Ok--I'll go back and look for it--must have overlooked it ! Thanks

 

[hunter]

Look on page 44 under Starting Feats.

Hunter

 

[TheBrain]

I know there's the whole cutless weilding marine wading into a boarding action image, but it seems to me it would be more useful to have a weapon proficency and focus in bayonet than a sword. so when you wade into that boarding action it goes shoot, shoot, shoot, get up close, stab. As opposed to shoot, shoot, shoot, waste time drawing cutlass, get up close, slash. Providing of course you didn't get hosed down with laser and gauss rounds back aroud the whole waste time drawing cutless stage.

 

[lightsenshi]

A gauss rifle already mounts a RAM grenade launcher so a bayonet can't be mounted. Besides, you don't even want to try and mount anything on a PGMP.

 

[Ganidirsii O'Flynn]

IMTU the Imperial Marines have finally finished getting all Marines into TL 13 battle dress. Now it is a basic qualification to be an Imperial Marine, but prior to that they would operate with Combat Armor and Laser Rifles or Gauss Rifles with PGMP-13s as squad support weapons. The cutlass became a Marine staple because of the need to work on body positioning for the recoil of the PGMP's then in service.

Add to this the Navy officers wearing a sword in full dress uniform. Marines (of whatever nationality, whatever era) routinely consider Naval personnel nothing more than "Large Barge Drivers", about as useful as a bus driver in a bar fight. So, they went along with the full-dress-ironmongery idea with a heavier, more brutal weapon with long-held naval connotations. So, just like the Navy model gauss pistol has a long elegant barrel, and Navy swordsmanship is epee or foil tip work, the Marines adopted a more brute strength, slashing style to go with their more built up pistol. No standoff fighting here, Navy Puke!

 

[TheBrain]

Originally posted by lightsenshi:
A gauss rifle already mounts a RAM grenade launcher so a bayonet can't be mounted. Besides, you don't even want to try and mount anything on a PGMP.

Isn't it written someplace tat RAM grenades use a shootthrough or bullet trap design so you really don't have a launcher muzzle or cup like the old WW 2 types. Modern rifle grenades for assault rifles fire rifle grenades that way and mount bayonet lug. Besides whats the point of using RAM grenades in a boarding action you'll practically never need the range, let alone the problems of getting caught yourself in the blast radius and any trouble you might have if the grenade has any safety that only arms after a certain distance.

 

[lightsenshi]

Originally posted by TheBrain:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lightsenshi:
A gauss rifle already mounts a RAM grenade launcher so a bayonet can't be mounted. Besides, you don't even want to try and mount anything on a PGMP.

Isn't it written someplace tat RAM grenades use a shootthrough or bullet trap design so you really don't have a launcher muzzle or cup like the old WW 2 types. Modern rifle grenades for assault rifles fire rifle grenades that way and mount bayonet lug. Besides whats the point of using RAM grenades in a boarding action you'll practically never need the range, let alone the problems of getting caught yourself in the blast radius and any trouble you might have if the grenade has any safety that only arms after a certain distance. </font>[/QUOTE]HEAP grenades have a fairly limited blast radius (for grenades, anyways). Fragmentation grenades can be used against lightly armored opponents to equally effective effect (especially when fired through an airlock). Certainly useful for pinning down opposition and keeping them pinned down. And if I'm in full combat armor, decompression isn't an issue.

 

[Zutroi]

Traveller has always taken a lot of flak for having marines with cutlasses. I have just one thought to offer on the subject:

Make the cutlass out of superdense alloy, and put the marine in battledress.

I'M not getting in the way!!

BTW, I used to fence epee and saber, so I'll offer an observation on the 'brute force vs. finesse' subject as well.

Attacking with the point is ALWAYS faster than with the edge, and the point on a cutlass is the next best thing to useless. Of course, I have to come up with a way to get my epee thru the armor...

 

[GypsyComet]

Superdense blade or not, the Cutlass would make a good weapon to train with *in Battledress*, on the theory that if you can master the art of swordplay in the stuff, all the more mundane actions will have reached instinctive levels...

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Zutroi:
Attacking with the point is ALWAYS faster than with the edge, and the point on a cutlass is the next best thing to useless. Of course, I have to come up with a way to get my epee thru the armor...

I only have one counter observation (I do agree with you, BTW). That being that the steel pot helmet has no point (and is an amazingly unwieldy instrument), yet it, entrenching tools, ammo cases, and a variety of other less obvious items have been used to defeat foes in HTH who were better armed. The cutlass at least seems to have *some* merit...

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by Ganidiirsi O'Flynn:
IMTU the Imperial Marines have finally finished getting all Marines into TL 13 battle dress. Now it is a basic qualification to be an Imperial Marine, but prior to that they would operate with Combat Armor and Laser Rifles or Gauss Rifles with PGMP-13s as squad support weapons. The cutlass became a Marine staple because of the need to work on body positioning for the recoil of the PGMP's then in service.

Add to this the Navy officers wearing a sword in full dress uniform. Marines (of whatever nationality, whatever era) routinely consider Naval personnel nothing more than "Large Barge Drivers", about as useful as a bus driver in a bar fight. So, they went along with the full-dress-ironmongery idea with a heavier, more brutal weapon with long-held naval connotations. So, just like the Navy model gauss pistol has a long elegant barrel, and Navy swordsmanship is epee or foil tip work, the Marines adopted a more brute strength, slashing style to go with their more built up pistol. No standoff fighting here, Navy Puke!

A good take!

I did like (out of Challenge mag where they discussed the IMC on Terra) the idea of marines in CES for low threat environments. It would also be more ideal for recce elements, etc. where leaving 600 kg footprints would suck (as would running out of power if doing LRRP work).

As for the cutlass, there is one good reason I've never seen mentioned: In some places, you may just hit electromagnetic conditions that render the lasers or other power consuming and computer controlled weapons (such as lasers and FGMPs and PGMPs and presumably gauss weapons too) incapable of function. For those odd eventualitites, a cutlass is a lovely security blanket.

 

[tanstaafl2300]

Going back a few posts but there was mention of why you would use RAM grenades in a space boarding action, I would have to agree that explosive grenades would be a bit hazardous but there are also large buckshot rounds/grenades that can be used, heck in a zero-G enviroment a 40mm round with 60 or so large BB's comming at you would not be fun.

Tim

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by tanstaafl2300: large buckshot rounds/grenades that can be used, heck in a zero-G enviroment a 40mm round with 60 or so large BB's comming at you would not be fun.

As opposed to in an atmosphere, where they would be fun?

Seriously, I'm not sure getting shredded with buckshot is any different from having your tissues explode when the liquid in them is flasheated by a laser or getting your skin burn off and a good tan from a plasma weapon or getting explosive decompression from some gauss needles puncturing your vacc suit....

I'd use a GL for several reasons in boarding (not RAM grenades - you don't need the range advantage and you don't want to block your bullet-shooting) - it'd be an underbarrel or separate low velocity gauss grenade launcher or perhaps some kind of low recoil gyrojet grenade launcher. At any rate, I'd load a mix of cannister (what you described), flechette (same idea, but armour piercing), gas and aerosol obscurant, and EMP. You want stuff to kill battle dress? I'd guess EMP grenades - something that hits the BD then spikes a big EMP surge. Presto - frozen BD. They have precedential cases of EMP mines currently that can disable motor vehicles.