Rules Only: The Advantages of Low Tech Starships

[Grav_Moped]

I'll stick with the generate program - no navigation skill required other than to carry the program cassette from storage to the computer.
CT made jump travel safe and routine unless you deliberately took risks. It appears later versions of the game are happy for the majority of ships to missjump a few times during their 40 years or more of operation. Wonder what that would do to the setting...

note this is based on simple probability - if you require a dice roll that has the potential to fail it will, if you require several chained dice rolls then you are actually increasing the chance of failure.

The other thing that changed was what a misjump was. CT's misjumps were a dozen parsecs in a random direction, but if there was a world in the hex landed in, you were at that world (so it was often referee fiat whether that turned out to be a TPK). The later versions would probably put you in the hex you were aiming for, but maybe out in its Oort Cloud (and maybe in a ship-design system without unlimited delta-V).

 

[Spinward Flow]

Allowing navigator 1 only to safely plan a jump 1 is too los, IMHO, for CT, where skills were not plentiful. This ould mean you need a naviagaotr 2 to operat a Scout or a Far Trader, just to give two fairly common ships...

Fair point.

The later versions would probably put you in the hex you were aiming for, but maybe out in its Oort Cloud (and maybe in a ship-design system without unlimited delta-V).

And it was right about then that you would be cursing your cheapskate nature of wanting a 1G starship instead of anything with more maneuvering power.

 

[Grav_Moped]

And it was right about then that you would be cursing your cheapskate nature of wanting a 1G starship instead of anything with more maneuvering power.

It's the constrained total delta-v that'll kill you. If you can burn for the entire brachistohcrone (direct trajectory, continuous accel/decel) path, lower Gs aren't the dealbreaker.

The rules versions with limited delta-v, really limited it.

 

[whartung]

I'll stick with the generate program - no navigation skill required other than to carry the program cassette from storage to the computer.

I dunno, Generate is 800,000Cr. That's over 4 years of a Navigators salary. Perhaps pick it up when you get that windfall spec cargo sold.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Seems off if a jump tape costs more than having your on call astrogator do it; on the other hand, if you have varying qualities of jump tape, from should get you there more or less in tact to almost absolute on time exact location guarantee, then sure.

2. I don't recall Traveller having caps on capability due to skill levels, seems an interesting idea, for example a medic with introductionary skill performing a heart transplant; or just that success requires astronomical luck.

3. One problem, of course, is that unlike a personal computer, you can't gradually upgrade as you acquire the funds, especially major spacecraft systems, you might as well buy a spacecraft with the requisite performance.

 

[whartung]

3. One problem, of course, is that unlike a personal computer, you can't gradually upgrade as you acquire the funds, especially major spacecraft systems, you might as well buy a spacecraft with the requisite performance.

Sure you can. Want a bigger computer? Put in a bigger computer. Just note you need the free tonnage. 99% of the time, "tonnage is tonnage" and we don't go into details like "How do I fit in a 4 ton computer where there was a 2 ton computer before?" Simply take 2 tons off of cargo, or fire the steward and put it in their stateroom. Toss the network cables over the light fixtures in the suspended ceilings. "No one will know!"

 

[Condottiere]

The old computer, unless you leave it alone, will cost ten percent of cost to remove.

The new computer, not accounting for conversion of cargo space, costs one hundred and ten percent for installation, unless it fell off the back of a truck.

Try that with engineering, it's fifty percent for removal, one hundred fifty percent for installation..

 

[whartung]

Try that with engineering, it's fifty percent for removal, one hundred fifty percent for installation..

And it's beat 100% for a new starship.

But, that pretty much sounds like my adventures "upgrading" PCs.

Every time I'd thought to upgrade one, in the end, about all I could save from the original was the floppy and CD Rom drive.

Memory wasn't compatible, Power supply wasn't compatible, case wasn't compatible, and I was trying to get a new GPU and CPU and, hey, may as well double the storage for 1/2 the price!

 

[Condottiere]

Now, while I don't bank on future proofing a computer, experience says buy what you can afford, wait two or three years, buy the latest set of computer parts you can afford on the newest platform.

Sell the old platform or use it as backup.

Upgrade per need.

 

[McPerth]

The rules versions with limited delta-v, really limited it.

Which rules version where those?

I only remember MT giving you a max vacuum speed, but that was declared an errata, stating that speed was unlimited in vacuum (as long as you latter have the time and power to stop you again)

 

[Grav_Moped]

Which rules version where those?

I only remember MT giving you a max vacuum speed, but that was declared an errata, stating that speed was unlimited in vacuum (as long as you latter have the time and power to stop you again)

LBB2 '77 (though it didn't matter there) and whichever one had HEPLAR (and no, I don't recall which one that was).

 

[HanleyTucks]

It might have mattered in LBB2 '77 since it didn't specify where in the target system you'd Jump to. Just outside 100D of your target world? Near a gas giant? Outside the furthest planetary body of the system? Near the target system's star (as in Elite: Dangerous)?

Limiting things here and there across the rules set can really change play.

 

[Dragoner]

I tried using nav as a jump was 1d6+1 days minus nav skill; it didn't break the game any, though I suppose there could be follow on effects. Stuff about the larger setting-wise.

 

[aramis]

A few reaction thoughts…

I always figured letter drives were less a specific part design and more an industrial spec. So they could handle different design choices or locally available mixes of exotic alloys but retain plug compatibility everywhere. VERY desirable for maintaining a basic level of transport at the subsector level at least.

Limiting repair by TL to letter drive limits per the LBB3 tech table seems like common sense to me.

It's worth noting that, under Bk2-77, the tech available means earlier J-2/3/4/5/6 drives than Bk2-81, and that earlier than Bk5 (and all later editions).
TL9 Allows Drives A-D, Model/3, and under Bk2-81, we can build a J3 200td with some payload space, and no bigger than 800 Td.
TLA cannot get j5 nor J6, but only because of the PP fuel and Bridge Minimums. But it can push 400 Td to J4. (200Td fuel, Drives H=4 85Td, model 2bis or model 3; warship model 4, PNEEMG) It can also build 1000 Td J1 and 800Td J2

Bk2-77, same limits, at TL9 we can make J4 on a 100 or 200 Td Hull, but the 100 Td is pretty worthless (add 2×Model/2 to represent a set of dbase servers?). If it's military, we can add a turret and make it double occupancy. A J5 200Td hull is doable... (Br 20Td, JFuel 100, PPFuel 10, Drives JD E=5 MD A=1 PP A=1 35Td, 2bis 2Td for J5+Nav. 15 Td Cargo, crew PNEM.

This gives a very different texture from the OTU...

Bk2-77 100Td J4
100 010.0 custom 100Td hull
020 000.5 Bridge
002 018.0 Computer Model/2bis (to run Nav + Jump 4)
015 010.0 JD B=2
001 004.0 MD A=1
004 008.0 PP A=1
004 000.5 Stateroom
040 000.0 Fuel 1J4
010 000.0 Fuel PP
004 000.0 Cargo
100 041.0 Totals s
000 004.1 bulk discount
036.9 Cost per.

Note the total lack of reasonable cargo... To add the massive data storage of the type X, strip the MD, PP, and PP Fuel, swap the cargo for SR #2, and add 15 tons of "Storage Computers"...

 

[aramis]

Which rules version where those?

I only remember MT giving you a max vacuum speed, but that was declared an errata, stating that speed was unlimited in vacuum (as long as you latter have the time and power to stop you again)

TTNE and T4 both had limited delta-V (as they shared the same design system), but T4 had rules for T-plates, as well, but those only worked at full thrust within 1000 Diameters... (can't quite make a full brachistochrone to Saturn about 1/5 of the time... 1 AU is about 107.4 Solar Diameters; Saturn orbits 9.04 to 10.12 AU.).

 

[whartung]

TTNE and T4 both had limited delta-V (as they shared the same design system), but T4 had rules for T-plates, as well,...

FF&S has Thruster Plates (among other things) as alternative tech.

but those only worked at full thrust within 1000 Diameters...

1000 Diameters of what? Anything?

Sun it 865K miles in diameter, so 1000 diameters is 865M miles. Saturns influence is 72M miles, giving 937M miles of 1000 diameters to work with. Saturn should JUST fit.

What's funny about these is that the drive flames out during the decel phase, so the ship will have to turn over early and coast when it reaches the threshold.

 

[Condottiere]

I suspect that when gravitational based drives started to be segmented, it seemed easier to differentiate their range in multiples of ten from a significant gravity well.

 

[whartung]

I tried using nav as a jump was 1d6+1 days minus nav skill; it didn't break the game any, though I suppose there could be follow on effects. Stuff about the larger setting-wise.

"I had to know!"

So, I threw together a quick book 1 navy char generator to answer the question "Assuming someone would dedicate their career to navigation, what are the best navigators the navy can produce? and how many?".

Simply, I rolled up 10000 characters. I tried to enlist them in to the navy, then I dropped those that did enlist but didn't meet the EDU 8+ requirement, since the Navy makes Navigation an Advanced 8+ Education table skill (vs the Scouts, which will apparently train anybody).

Then, whenever these folks got a skill, they rolled on that table, trying for Navigation.

Out of the 10,000 I started with, 5571 actually enlisted. Of those, 2728 were educated enough. (What I did not do is try to improve the uneducated to where they could actually train in navigation in a later term.).

Of the 2728 that passed, 636 didn't survive. Of the survivors, what did we get?

Nav +0	828
Nav +1	689
Nav +2	347
Nav +3	150
Nav +4	52
Nav +5	16
Nav +6	10

Why is this important?

Simply, while certainly rare, there are "instant" navigators out there. These would be cherished by intelligence agencies and mega-corps. (One of the +6 navigators is only 5 terms, so that one is actually pretty young, most were 8 terms.)

So, anyway, curiosity sated.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Low Tech Starships will always have a home in the more backwards Systems. Somewhat like the T-55 tanks in Africa.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Low Tech Starships will always have a home in the more backwards Systems. Somewhat like the T-55 tanks in Africa.

They should. The problem is that the starport rules as written don't necessarily support that. It's not too much of a stretch to read those rules so that they do, but it makes logistics for High Guard fleets somewhat problematic.