medical proficiancy
- Thread starter CosmicGamer
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BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
The Space Gamer #47 (January 1982)
I'm a Doctor, not a... by J. Andrew Kieth
This article breaks Medical skill down into sub-skills as follows:
Med 1: First Aid, Patient Care, Pharmacy
Med 2: Cryology, Laboratory, Pathology
Med 3: Diagnosis, Surgery, Exo-biology
Med 4: Specialties
Each time a Med skill is rolled, the character receives the chance to gain up to two specific skills... by a roll of 5+ on one D6. The same skill may be rolled for twice.
Int 9+ allows rolls for 3 skills.
Edu 9+ may add 1 to all die rolls
Dex 10+ may add 1 on rolls for Surgery
The article describes the specific skill's features, as well as advice on how to administer this variant of Medical skill, and gives suggestions for titles for various combinations of skills... Paramedic, Registered Nurse, Pharmacist, Doctor (general practice), Surgeon.
I'm a Doctor, not a... by J. Andrew Kieth
This article breaks Medical skill down into sub-skills as follows:
Med 1: First Aid, Patient Care, Pharmacy
Med 2: Cryology, Laboratory, Pathology
Med 3: Diagnosis, Surgery, Exo-biology
Med 4: Specialties
Each time a Med skill is rolled, the character receives the chance to gain up to two specific skills... by a roll of 5+ on one D6. The same skill may be rolled for twice.
Int 9+ allows rolls for 3 skills.
Edu 9+ may add 1 to all die rolls
Dex 10+ may add 1 on rolls for Surgery
The article describes the specific skill's features, as well as advice on how to administer this variant of Medical skill, and gives suggestions for titles for various combinations of skills... Paramedic, Registered Nurse, Pharmacist, Doctor (general practice), Surgeon.
Captain Midnight
SOC-12
I'd make possessing appropriate skill a requirement, although not the only one. In order to be recognized as a "doctor", a person would have to graduate from an accredited medical school, perform a residency, and pass exams to demonstrate proficiency at the level of "Medical-3" in CT terms or Diagnosis-15, Physician-15, and Electronics Operation (Medical)-15 in GT terms.
If you don't jump through those hoops, you might very well be the second coming of Aesculapius, but you don't get to call yourself "doctor". If you don't pass some less stringent requirements, you don't get to call yourself "nurse", and if you don't pass the even less stringent requirements, you can't call yourself "EMT" or "paramedic".
You may very well be known as a sawbones of phenomenal skill, but advanced societies require you to do something to prove it. A GM can rule that possessing the appropriate skills means you automatically pass the qualifying tests... if you choose to have your character do so, and it fits your overall character conception. You can decide you want your character to be the most skilled EMT in the sector if you decide you don't want to be an actual doctor... but that's going to generally have some legal repercussions, in case your judgment conflicts with that of a person who is certified at a higher level than you are.
There are roleplaying possibilities aplenty. The approximation of various skill levels to present-day jobs is just an abstraction to help players get their heads around what the various skill levels mean.
If you don't jump through those hoops, you might very well be the second coming of Aesculapius, but you don't get to call yourself "doctor". If you don't pass some less stringent requirements, you don't get to call yourself "nurse", and if you don't pass the even less stringent requirements, you can't call yourself "EMT" or "paramedic".
You may very well be known as a sawbones of phenomenal skill, but advanced societies require you to do something to prove it. A GM can rule that possessing the appropriate skills means you automatically pass the qualifying tests... if you choose to have your character do so, and it fits your overall character conception. You can decide you want your character to be the most skilled EMT in the sector if you decide you don't want to be an actual doctor... but that's going to generally have some legal repercussions, in case your judgment conflicts with that of a person who is certified at a higher level than you are.
There are roleplaying possibilities aplenty. The approximation of various skill levels to present-day jobs is just an abstraction to help players get their heads around what the various skill levels mean.
Icosahedron
SOC-14 1K
I always omit to stress that my 'rules' are generally meant as a referee guide, not something that rules lawyers can tie the Ref in knots with, and their purpose is to paint a picture.
The following might give more idea of my shorthand.
Level-1 = (the level of skill an average person would normally ascribe to a typical and averagely experienced) Paramedic.
This person is not necessarily a paramedic but has the level of skills that you would normally associate with one.
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Prometheus
Guest
Medic -2 for a nurse .... lol nurses do what there name says ... nurse...they %^$& the bed when the ballon goes up. they just take orders and execute. Where as
a medic is trained in along the lines of the Med practioners. Medic -2 is more the expanded scope paramedics or your offshore/SOF medics.
NREMT-P, CCEMT-P
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Prometheus
Guest
a nurse is incapable of doing anything a medic does.... medics operate independently where as a nurse is a PA or MD's bitch.
I would argue that Medic -3 is nurse practioner, PA level and medic 4 is MD
VargrIntellectual
SOC-6
I respectfully disagree! I don't think that CT should be turned into the later systems, which had an increasingly codified set of rules to cover various situations.
I think that the CT Ref should "eyeball it" and consider what the character is trying to do. CPR after a particular event might require a throw of 8+ with DM +Medical; someone without Medical is simply rolling without a DM and going by what he has seen on the vids (and will probably miss the throw).
In the section on wounds, recovery of lost points seems tied to having an attendee with at least Medical-1, so I wouldn't allow actual healing until receiving proper treatment.
Whoa, there big guy - don't let your long abbreviated titles go to your head
I hold an NREMT-Basic, just finished and am about to test for LPN, and am still in school to get my RN, and while paramedics are trained in certain skills used in emergency medicine that are probably above the average medical/surgical care nurse, almost any other category of care including nurse practititioner, advanced practice nurses, ICU nurses, trauma nurses, surgical nurses, cardiac telemetry nurses, etc., receive far more training and have a lot more knowledge that of a "floor nurse".
Nurses work under the direction of the MD (just like paramedics and EMTs) but need to understand all the procedures and processes. If an MD tells them to do something and it's wrong or improper, the nurse has to catch it and stop it, or take the hit just as the doc would/does. All paramedic training is aimed at is to allow the paramedic to practice under the scope allowed by law, and that is authorized by the MD via protocols and standing orders - just like nurses.
That's why you can get in on a fast track Paramedic-to-RN program but there's no such thing as RN-to-paramedic.
Soo...
Me, I used have my First Responder Basic First Aid, which is about the equivalent of Medic-0 in my book and of course TU. Now I also dig the whole Emergency Services gig so I do have tons of books I have read and numerous well, talks, not so much interviews, with everything from US Marshals and SS to NREMT-P and more Doctors and Nurses because of a Chronic GI problem, and it seems to me that Nurses really do have a high Medical Rating as they as stated above do butt loads more than Paramagics have to do, like long term PIA patient care *grins* and I love ya for it.
OTOH, both Nurses and Medics practice the art of medicine more than Doctors who teach, do admin paperwork, and of course try and get published.
Doctors though spend like 12 years of their life before other Doctors will take them seriously and not treat them like potential dangers...
Me, I used have my First Responder Basic First Aid, which is about the equivalent of Medic-0 in my book and of course TU. Now I also dig the whole Emergency Services gig so I do have tons of books I have read and numerous well, talks, not so much interviews, with everything from US Marshals and SS to NREMT-P and more Doctors and Nurses because of a Chronic GI problem, and it seems to me that Nurses really do have a high Medical Rating as they as stated above do butt loads more than Paramagics have to do, like long term PIA patient care *grins* and I love ya for it.
OTOH, both Nurses and Medics practice the art of medicine more than Doctors who teach, do admin paperwork, and of course try and get published.
Doctors though spend like 12 years of their life before other Doctors will take them seriously and not treat them like potential dangers...I do not know enough about paramedics and nurses in your country, but
over here the basic training for a paramedic is 520 hours and the basic
training for a nurse is 4,600 hours.
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Prometheus
Guest
Whoa, there big guy - don't let your long abbreviated titles go to your head
I hold an NREMT-Basic, just finished and am about to test for LPN, and am still in school to get my RN, and while paramedics are trained in certain skills used in emergency medicine that are probably above the average medical/surgical care nurse, almost any other category of care including nurse practititioner, advanced practice nurses, ICU nurses, trauma nurses, surgical nurses, cardiac telemetry nurses, etc., receive far more training and have a lot more knowledge that of a "floor nurse".
Nurses work under the direction of the MD (just like paramedics and EMTs) but need to understand all the procedures and processes. If an MD tells them to do something and it's wrong or improper, the nurse has to catch it and stop it, or take the hit just as the doc would/does. All paramedic training is aimed at is to allow the paramedic to practice under the scope allowed by law, and that is authorized by the MD via protocols and standing orders - just like nurses.
That's why you can get in on a fast track Paramedic-to-RN program but there's no such thing as RN-to-paramedic.
Lets see .. I am also a SOF medic (W1).. so that means I have a advanced surgical and medical capabilities... I have surgically cric'd a guy under heavy enemy fire put chest tubes in, performed emergency blood transfusions between two soldiers, diagnosed using the (flash smear technique) and treated malaria .. the list goes on... so stick to your I-n-Os.. and your booboos... RN are basically a hospital thing.
Lets see I have been a medic for wow 15 years... done the flight, special operations.. hazmat ......
have fun moving the gorked patients are around and getting your stool samples...
There are very different levels of training for different kinds of nurses.
LPN are basically patient movers and occasionally needle stickers. Most are Associates of Nursing degree holders, some are BS's.
RN's are more generalized, and have considerably more duties; most in my state are BS degrees, and some are MS degrees.
FNP's are usually MS's with licensure to practice medicine as a practitioner in (usually) General and Family practice, tho some are pediatric specialists, and others OB/GYN specialists.
ANP's are roughly the same as FNP's.
Civilian Paramedics are all Certificate Holders; 2 years, only 30 semester credits (15 contact hours per credit), but 600 hours of practicum as well.
Civilian Physician's Assistants all have BS's, and most have MS's... Military PA's often lack degrees, but the military credential is accepted as equivalent. And, like Nurse Practitioners, they may enter private practice.
One ANP I know of holds a Doctorate of Nursing... and is in private practice.
So it varies widely. There is no NATIONAL standard in the US for medical licensure; each state sets its own. (Paramedics have the most regularized in the country; a Paramedic licensure in any state is roughly equivalent to that in any other state....)
Now, in my experience, I'd say it's a case for a cascade skill...
Medical (Diagnosis)
Medical (Patient Care)
Medical (Trauma Aid)
Medical (Pharmacopia)
Medical (Surgery)
Medical (Homeopathic Medicine)
Medical (Other Specialties, specify)
The Warrant, he's probably Medic (Diagnosis)1, Medical (Trauma Aid) 3, Medical Surgery (1)...
While a general duty nurse is probably Medical (Patient Care) 1, Medical (Diagnosis) 1
An LPN in Alaska is probably just Medical (Patient Care) 1...
LPN are basically patient movers and occasionally needle stickers. Most are Associates of Nursing degree holders, some are BS's.
RN's are more generalized, and have considerably more duties; most in my state are BS degrees, and some are MS degrees.
FNP's are usually MS's with licensure to practice medicine as a practitioner in (usually) General and Family practice, tho some are pediatric specialists, and others OB/GYN specialists.
ANP's are roughly the same as FNP's.
Civilian Paramedics are all Certificate Holders; 2 years, only 30 semester credits (15 contact hours per credit), but 600 hours of practicum as well.
Civilian Physician's Assistants all have BS's, and most have MS's... Military PA's often lack degrees, but the military credential is accepted as equivalent. And, like Nurse Practitioners, they may enter private practice.
One ANP I know of holds a Doctorate of Nursing... and is in private practice.
So it varies widely. There is no NATIONAL standard in the US for medical licensure; each state sets its own. (Paramedics have the most regularized in the country; a Paramedic licensure in any state is roughly equivalent to that in any other state....)
Now, in my experience, I'd say it's a case for a cascade skill...
Medical (Diagnosis)
Medical (Patient Care)
Medical (Trauma Aid)
Medical (Pharmacopia)
Medical (Surgery)
Medical (Homeopathic Medicine)
Medical (Other Specialties, specify)
The Warrant, he's probably Medic (Diagnosis)1, Medical (Trauma Aid) 3, Medical Surgery (1)...
While a general duty nurse is probably Medical (Patient Care) 1, Medical (Diagnosis) 1
An LPN in Alaska is probably just Medical (Patient Care) 1...
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mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
Having just been to a german hospital I agree with Rust, the Nurses over here are well trained in their job and definitly capabel of more than "serve food, clean patient, change bandages".(1)
As for "military first aid": Back in the 80th that was a part theoretical/part practical two day course that included the "basic stuff" (Breathing, CPR) taught in the 6hour "required for civilian drivers licence course" as well as bandages (including pressure bandages), torniques, splints/slings and some basic resque techniques (2) A tad more helpful than the basic civilian stuff.
Our "Sanis" got two training courses known as "San1" and "San2" back then, each either two or four weeks (IIRC four) for the enlisted (15 month) conscripts and where then used in various functions, including the fixed medical installations. "San2" did include the permission to set injections (At least I got mine from an enlisted)
(1) I although learned that Dr. House is based on real life persons
(2) Including the fact that persons above 80kg can NOT use the "rescue strap" in the back on the tankers coverall
As for "military first aid": Back in the 80th that was a part theoretical/part practical two day course that included the "basic stuff" (Breathing, CPR) taught in the 6hour "required for civilian drivers licence course" as well as bandages (including pressure bandages), torniques, splints/slings and some basic resque techniques (2) A tad more helpful than the basic civilian stuff.
Our "Sanis" got two training courses known as "San1" and "San2" back then, each either two or four weeks (IIRC four) for the enlisted (15 month) conscripts and where then used in various functions, including the fixed medical installations. "San2" did include the permission to set injections (At least I got mine from an enlisted)
(1) I although learned that Dr. House is based on real life persons
(2) Including the fact that persons above 80kg can NOT use the "rescue strap" in the back on the tankers coverall
Ah, then why didn't you specify that you training and experience were more advanced?
An EMT-P without advanced training is not at the same level as a professional nurse, which is EXACTLY what you inferred with your original post. Getting your undies in a bunch and insulting other people because they are not pyschic about your training and abilities is impolite and unprofessional.
All the things you list are within the scope of a properly trained and certified nurse also, with the exception of the enemy fire thing....
And, btw, thank you for your military service.
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cool stuff, but...
Two, Doctor Nurse...:rofl:
Three, I like you cascade, vera nice.
What's the "F" and "A" in the Nurse Practitioner acronyms above?
Two, Doctor Nurse...:rofl:
Three, I like you cascade, vera nice.
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