Mercenary Starships and Spacecraft

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by atpollard:
It seems like something of a Catch 22.
Any craft capable of doing "the job" (whatever job that is) is too valuable to risk.

On the other hand, Risk is why they need a merc unit and not a shuttle full of accountants and attorneys.

On the third hand, you cannot deliver an Infantryman (which you can afford to risk) to the site without a ship/craft (that is too valuable to risk).

At TL 17, we could beam them down.

You reduce your risks. In other words armored and survivable landing craft, vs. the entire ship. Limiting your losses under fire. You also spread your load out over several craft also lowering your risk. There needs to be a balance in doing this obviously. You want to concentrate firepower but want to spread out the unit to protect it on the way in.

 

[alanb]

One thing we have been forgetting: what are the TLs and Populations of the target worlds?

Landing troops on a sparsely populated and/or relatively low tech world is much easier than landing one with much more formidable defences.

In some cases, it may be possible to land away from the enemy's forces, and then attack "over land".

Methods like this can reduce a lot of risk. But not eliminate it, of course.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by alanb:
One thing we have been forgetting: what are the TLs and Populations of the target worlds?

Landing troops on a sparsely populated and/or relatively low tech world is much easier than landing one with much more formidable defences.

In some cases, it may be possible to land away from the enemy's forces, and then attack "over land".

Methods like this can reduce a lot of risk. But not eliminate it, of course.

And many targets don't even have land to march across. LSP hiring Mercs to hit Sternmetal Horizons, interests in Glisten for example. In fact Grav vehicles would likely be useless in such an attack. (That would depend on how Artifical Gravity and Grav Vehicles interact in YTU, but in MTU they interfere with each other enough to render the Grav vehicles useless.)

In situations where you can't employ Mech forces, you are pretty much forced into a Hot LZ situation.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
In situations where you can't employ Mech forces, you are pretty much forced into a Hot LZ situation.

This is essentially a boarding action. Space combat, not ground combat.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
You reduce your risks. In other words armored and survivable landing craft, vs. the entire ship. Limiting your losses under fire. You also spread your load out over several craft also lowering your risk. There needs to be a balance in doing this obviously. You want to concentrate firepower but want to spread out the unit to protect it on the way in.

[SHAMELESS PLUG] if anyone wanted to take a shot at designing an "armored and survivable landing craft", there is a vehicle design contest to enter it in, right HERE .

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by atpollard:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
You reduce your risks. In other words armored and survivable landing craft, vs. the entire ship. Limiting your losses under fire. You also spread your load out over several craft also lowering your risk. There needs to be a balance in doing this obviously. You want to concentrate firepower but want to spread out the unit to protect it on the way in.

[SHAMELESS PLUG] if anyone wanted to take a shot at designing an "armored and survivable landing craft", there is a vehicle design contest to enter it in, right HERE . </font>[/QUOTE]But for Mercs, I don't tend to do vehicles.

I use small craft. Vehicles are too limited in scope for most Merc Operations. (Unless you wish to count my Marine Battledress.

)

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
But for Mercs, I don't tend to do vehicles.

I use small craft. Vehicles are too limited in scope for most Merc Operations.

Totally nuts.

"Most Merc Operations" have no use for small craft whatsoever. Or for starships.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by alanb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
In situations where you can't employ Mech forces, you are pretty much forced into a Hot LZ situation.

This is essentially a boarding action. Space combat, not ground combat. </font>[/QUOTE]However it also is 60-75% of all the main worlds in a Sector. (In The Spinward Marches, as I recall, it is 72%.) Add operations in a system not on the Main World, though you will have to eliminate systems without a TL to have assets off the Main World, you are probably looking at around 80-85% of tickets should be these "Boarding Actions."

This is the primary reason that I personally favor Light Infantry with Light Fighter Support and Small Craft to Vehicles, when designing Mercenary Units. (It is also why IMTU Marines are Primarily a Light Infantry Force (If you consider Battledress Equipped Troops, Light Infantry.

) and Imperial Marine Mech Units are the exception not the rule.)

The Specification for the Mercenary Unit, as originally posted was, approximately 200 effectives (A reinforced Company.), TL12-14 for the ship and vehicular assets. The Specification also called for a Lift Infantry or Mechanized Unit with both Armor support and Capability to engage in StarMerc Operations with a small number of Fighters and some Boarding Craft. (Which is why the ship I designed came out the way it did.)

I eliminated the Armor, and replaced it with more Fighters, which under most Traveller Rulesets are just as effective, if not more effective than Tanks in the High Tech Armor Support/CAS role. Designed the Boarding Craft to also act as Assault Landing Boats. This way giving maximum flexibility with minimum cubbage. Remember this is only a Company of Mercs. So they would normally be expected to have no more than 3-5 tanks and perhaps 4 fighters to escort the assault wave. (Using Fighters also eliminates the need to assault land them.

)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by alanb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
But for Mercs, I don't tend to do vehicles.

I use small craft. Vehicles are too limited in scope for most Merc Operations.

Totally nuts.

"Most Merc Operations" have no use for small craft whatsoever. Or for starships. </font>[/QUOTE]

Cross Posted.

The biggest reason for a Merc Unit to have a Starship, is so they can get to the next job. Finding passage for 200 effectives, armor and supplies, to arrive at the target and possibly land under fire, is a bit difficult. Especially if the next ticket isn't the next system along a Main. Most Mercenary Tickets are not on nice High Population Worlds with Class A Starports. (So traffic is limited.) Further under standard economic rules, any commercial ship with a Jump capacity above 1 and a mortgage can not afford to ship cargo at carriage rates. (Their holds have to be full of profitable Speculative Cargo.)

No commercial ship is going to be happy about carrying a unit of Mercenaries, in any event. (Fear of Hijacking.) Further they certainly aren't going to let a Merc unit train while aboard.

Your unit will arrive piecemeal and in an unpredictable amount of time, especially if the location of the ticket is not on a Main close to the previous ticket.

The reason that a typical Mercenary Unit will want Small Craft is that the typical ticket location would require small craft to conduct operations. Limiting yourself to operations where you don't need Small Craft to conduct operations, and/or where you can effectively use Armor and Mech operations, compounds your need for a Starship, as the choice of locations for tickets are quite a bit farther apart.

With the exception of Insurgent/Counter-Insurgent operations most wars even at TL7/8 last between 4 weeks and 6 months. Many of the reasons that Co-In operations last longer is Political and not military. The reason Wars lasted longer at lower Tech levels is that it takes time to concentrate and position forces. At even higher Tech Levels, this would still be the case, if not more so. As sensors and Intelligence Gathering Technology improves even Insurgency Operations will last less time. (Because it is more difficult to hide.) This is especially apparent when one side has a serious Tech advantage. So unless you are bogged down in Co-In Operations, you will need to move your unit on a regular basis, probably more than twice a year.

But in all fairness, the specification for the ship in the OP called for small craft, so the rest of this reason that a Merc unit might want small craft or a starship is unimportant in this instance. The Merc Unit wants both a Starship and Small Craft. (Whether they need them or not.)

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by atpollard:
[SHAMELESS PLUG] if anyone wanted to take a shot at designing an "armored and survivable landing craft", there is a vehicle design contest to enter it in, right HERE .

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
But for Mercs, I don't tend to do vehicles.

I use small craft. Vehicles are too limited in scope for most Merc Operations. (Unless you wish to count my Marine Battledress.

)

1. In MT, the largest “vehicle” and the smallest “small craft” are both 20 dTons.
2. Orbital interceptors and Grav tanks are both less than 20 dTons – and thus vehicles!
3. The contest is open to ANYTHING of any size designed with “vehicle design rules”.

So, BOTH your small craft AND your Marine Battledress probably qualify.

Originally posted by alanb:
Totally nuts.

"Most Merc Operations" have no use for small craft whatsoever. Or for starships.

Convince me. Add your design to the contest.

What kind of support craft does a Merc use on a world with a tainted atmosphere? Does he LIVE in a filtered breathing mask? How does he eat? Think about it. I’d love to see your ideas.

 

[mbrinkhues]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by alanb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
But for Mercs, I don't tend to do vehicles.

I use small craft. Vehicles are too limited in scope for most Merc Operations.

Totally nuts.

"Most Merc Operations" have no use for small craft whatsoever. Or for starships. </font>[/QUOTE]

Cross Posted.

The biggest reason for a Merc Unit to have a Starship, is so they can get to the next job. Finding passage for 200 effectives, armor and supplies, to arrive at the target and possibly land under fire, is a bit difficult. Especially if the next ticket isn't the next system along a Main. Most Mercenary Tickets are not on nice High Population Worlds with Class A Starports. (So traffic is limited.) Further under standard economic rules, any commercial ship with a Jump capacity above 1 and a mortgage can not afford to ship cargo at carriage rates. (Their holds have to be full of profitable Speculative Cargo.)

No commercial ship is going to be happy about carrying a unit of Mercenaries, in any event. (Fear of Hijacking.) Further they certainly aren't going to let a Merc unit train while aboard.

Your unit will arrive piecemeal and in an unpredictable amount of time, especially if the location of the ticket is not on a Main close to the previous ticket.

The reason that a typical Mercenary Unit will want Small Craft is that the typical ticket location would require small craft to conduct operations. Limiting yourself to operations where you don't need Small Craft to conduct operations, and/or where you can effectively use Armor and Mech operations, compounds your need for a Starship, as the choice of locations for tickets are quite a bit farther apart.

With the exception of Insurgent/Counter-Insurgent operations most wars even at TL7/8 last between 4 weeks and 6 months. Many of the reasons that Co-In operations last longer is Political and not military. The reason Wars lasted longer at lower Tech levels is that it takes time to concentrate and position forces. At even higher Tech Levels, this would still be the case, if not more so. As sensors and Intelligence Gathering Technology improves even Insurgency Operations will last less time. (Because it is more difficult to hide.) This is especially apparent when one side has a serious Tech advantage. So unless you are bogged down in Co-In Operations, you will need to move your unit on a regular basis, probably more than twice a year.

But in all fairness, the specification for the ship in the OP called for small craft, so the rest of this reason that a Merc unit might want small craft or a starship is unimportant in this instance. The Merc Unit wants both a Starship and Small Craft. (Whether they need them or not.) </font>[/QUOTE]Guess it depends on the Merc organisation. And the tickets they take.

Okay, Spinoff-Thread Number 3: Mercenary Units and Tickets

Merc Units and Tickets

 

[mbrinkhues]

Some more interesting ships from Challenge 60 (MT--Designs)

Tekkatir Class TL15, 2000dton, Airframe, 52G Armor, J3/M4, carries 4 small craft of 40dton each. Mixed armament of Lasers, Missiles and a Fusion bay. Carries a crew of 82 with 40 mercenaries.

Basically a replacement for the Broadsword without planetary landing abilities, heavy armor and other subcrafts

Yataghan TL15, 6000dton, Airframe, 67G Armor, J3/M5, carries 3-7 small craft (40dton). Mixed armament of laser turrets and missile bays, Meson Screen and Nuke damper, 117 crew with 40 mercenaries

Depending on the layout one might drop a few craft and carry more personal. Pocket carrier/Merc Cruiser (a bit bigger than my setup)

 

[Liam Devlin]

"Ship's of the Black War", yes, decent article.

 

[kafka47]

As the ships were meant to be cutting edge Imperial technology against the Usurper Dulinor, I don't think that many Merc companies inside the Imperium would have access to that tech. However, it does make interesting for what might exist in the Extents or lawless regions of the Solomani Sphere or along the Hiver-K'kree border...

 

[mbrinkhues]

Actually most ships where TL14-15 but build some time before the 1116 shootout and well-spread in 3I service. Tekkatir was a privat venture from IIRC before the 5th Frontier War as was Yataghan.

But yes, one wonders what could exist. One also wonders wether the 3I sells of old TL13/14 ships like the 5000dton Saberwolf or the 400dton Ramada to reliabel StarMerc outfits.

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by atpollard:
Convince me. Add your design to the contest.

My design for what?

Besides, I'm hopelessly rusty with the various design systems, and my wonderful Mercs would probably mostly use standard vehicle designs anyway, simply because of availability.

What kind of support craft does a Merc use on a world with a tainted atmosphere? Does he LIVE in a filtered breathing mask? How does he eat? Think about it. I’d love to see your ideas.

He probably follows the procedures he learned in the Imperial Army or Marines. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the 1110 edition of the "Field Operations in Non-Habitable Environments" manual handy...

A lot depends on what he is actually doing. Presumably there would be some procedure for eating while masked up.

For all I know, Mercs use grav trucks and pressure tents!

 

[Pickles]

Originally posted by atpollard:
Convince me. Add your design to the contest.

Originally posted by alanb:
My design for what? ... For all I know, Mercs use grav trucks and pressure tents!

Sounds like a design for something ... Maybe something to fit the Vehicle Design Challenge ...

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by alanb:
He probably follows the procedures he learned in the Imperial Army or Marines. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of the 1110 edition of the "Field Operations in Non-Habitable Environments" manual handy...

A lot depends on what he is actually doing. Presumably there would be some procedure for eating while masked up.

For all I know, Mercs use grav trucks and pressure tents!

Beginning in late TL7, and further into TL8, vehicles were capable of complete NBC pressurization. Part and parcel of the atomic-age of warfare (TL6+) their designers had to consider. If they can manage this, then eating meals in the vehicle becomes a non-issue to me IMO & IMTU.

Disposing of bodily wastes..well, real world examples show these tech level vehicles with an average of 48-96 hrs of sealed operability for the crews.

 

[atpollard]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Beginning in late TL7, and further into TL8, vehicles were capable of complete NBC pressurization. Part and parcel of the atomic-age of warfare (TL6+) their designers had to consider. If they can manage this, then eating meals in the vehicle becomes a non-issue to me IMO & IMTU.

Disposing of bodily wastes..well, real world examples show these tech level vehicles with an average of 48-96 hrs of sealed operability for the crews.

A soldier on Earth would be exposed to NBC conditions for hours. On a tainted atmosphere, the soldier would be exposed to the danger continuously for his entire tour of duty.

Most of the "standard" vehicles seem designed for hours of exposure. Is the entire company or batallion "housed" for extended periods of time with an inflatable tent as the only thing between them and death? THAT seems like a critical vulnerability. One RPG and a company dies in its sleep.

Those who advocate landing a support ship have a portable fortress for refuge. Those who drop vehicles in small craft need to consider long term field survival in hostile conditions. I think that there is room for the design of support vehicles that resemble an armored RV more than a simple transport - at a wide variety of Tech Levels.

Many worlds have unfriendly atmospheres. This is an open challenge for people to think about the issue. Do soldiers sleep in tents in a toxic atmosphere? Do they have modular support bases? Do they have live-in support vehicles?

 

[Liam Devlin]

A soldier on Earth would be exposed to NBC conditions for hours. On a tainted atmosphere, the soldier would be exposed to the danger continuously for his entire tour of duty.

Most of the "standard" vehicles seem designed for hours of exposure. Is the entire company or batallion "housed" for extended periods of time with an inflatable tent as the only thing between them and death? THAT seems like a critical vulnerability. One RPG and a company dies in its sleep.

Those who advocate landing a support ship have a portable fortress for refuge. Those who drop vehicles in small craft need to consider long term field survival in hostile conditions. I think that there is room for the design of support vehicles that resemble an armored RV more than a simple transport - at a wide variety of Tech Levels.

Many worlds have unfriendly atmospheres. This is an open challenge for people to think about the issue. Do soldiers sleep in tents in a toxic atmosphere? Do they have modular support bases? Do they have live-in support vehicles?

+Depends on how you as GM depict the "tainted (but breathable) atmospheres [Types 4, 7, 9]seems to me.

+ at TL6 Modular cheap housing can be produced for garrison duty/ billets

+at TL8 Environmentally sealed quarters modular housing can be built.

[These two from equipment tables in both MT, and T20].

So if you cannot take a series of shots and avoid the taint; must wear a filter mask while exposed, and so forth, you need to figure in packing such billets/ tents with you, seems to me.