Mgt = T4?

[mbrinkhues]

Incidently, what is wrong with the Light Machine Gun stats, included in the Mercenary book? What's the difference between a LMG and a SMG?

About eight kilograms in weight not counting the 80+ kg of permanently complaining gunner-2

A typical SMG is the Israeli UZI oder the HK MP-5, weight 3.5-4kg, firing 9x19mm Parabellum (also used in many police handguns like the Glock-17 oder Berrate 92F) cartridge at 400m/s from a 30-40 round box magazin. Effective Range about 150-200m

The archetipical Light Maschine Gun is the Rheinmetall MG42 (see Saving Privat Ryan during the landing szene) weighting 11.3kg empty and firing a 7.92x57mm Mauser (or in the 42/59 post-WWII version the 7.62x51mm NATO) at around 800m/s from a 50round belt with 5-6 belts carried in a ammo box (5 are more common). Effective range is 1200m and the weapon is fired from either the integral bipod or a seperate tripod

The SMG is a light personal weapon for tankers and other crew that rarely use a rifle. The LMG is a support weapon assigned one per infantery squad (10 mann) and normally served by a two man crew (Gunner1, Gunner2)

 

[Spinward Scout]

Am I the only one having flashbacks? Like IG, MG are full of enthusiasm, and they're churning out lots of books, but they're full of bugs and inappropriate art, and there's the nagging feeling that they simply don't understand Traveller.

I don't get the feeling they don't understand Traveller - I get the feeling that they don't care to. I get the feeling that it's theirs now and they'll do what they want to it. Which isn't much different than how TNE took it. MongooseMatt at one point even said something along the lines of 'who really cares about the OTU?' (not an exact quote)

I'm not sure why anyone thinks the MGT rulebook is generic Science Fiction, tho. The fourth sentence of the core book starts: 'A mighty Imperium unites thousands of star systems...'

I guess it's more generic than calling it the Third Imperium.

I do agree that they could have done a lot better in the page layout/artwork - I mean, it doesn't look like it was printed in the 21st century. Maybe that's the 'it's just like Classic Traveller!' part.

MGT might have great sales, but buying a book and actually using it are two different things. How many people on this board alone have to search and search until they can find someone to play Traveller?

I think the test of truth will be this weekend at GenCon.

EDIT: I've already rolled up one character with MGT. It's not a bad system. It's similar, but not the same as CT. I did expect about double the number of pages in a book they hyped so much about.

 

[jericson]

Yes, it doesn't do to release one title per year, especially when launching a new product. I suspect they're not at market saturation levels yet anyhow; why not release multiple products? Mongoose wants to give the impression that Traveller is a supported line. Compare to GDW's release schedule, which was apparently also brisk. Something like a new title every 22 weeks?

I think it was GDW put out a new product every 22 days, on average, for the companies lifespan. (Not just Traveller stuff, that would have been everything. I have no idea if it includes Challenge magazine as well, but I suspect it does.)

 

[Klaus]

I'm not sure why anyone thinks the MGT rulebook is generic Science Fiction, tho. The fourth sentence of the core book starts: 'A mighty Imperium unites thousands of star systems...'

That's about as generic as it gets. Most sci-fi rpgs seem to have them.

 

[tbeard1999]

Am I the only one having flashbacks? Like IG, MG are full of enthusiasm, and they're churning out lots of books, but they're full of bugs and inappropriate art, and there's the nagging feeling that they simply don't understand Traveller.

Never thought of it this way, but yup, that's what it seems.

Particularly grating (and inexcusable) is the apparent lack of knowledge of basic military issues. At one point in the playtest, the designer (and several fans) had to be educated on how an assault rifle differs from a rifle. I haven't bought Mercenary yet, but the comments, and samples make me skeptical that there's gonna be a lot of serious thought about futuristic warfare.

This is especially galling because it has never been easier to educate oneself on basic military technology. So laziness, rather than lack of information, is the culprit here.

By contrast, the original Mercenary contained one of the most thoughtful analyses of futuristic warfare trends (informed by the technology assumptions of Traveller) ever. Of course, some of the near future predictions were wrong (no IR followup missiles, but we do have tandem warheads; failure to anticipate ERA armor; grossly underestimating the penetration capability of HEAP AT warheads, etc.) But as an example of the futurist's art, it's a tour de force.

If Mongoose can't even come close to a 30 year game design, then perhaps they shouldn't try.

 

[tbeard1999]

It's part of Mongoose's business model to support gamelines aggressively through lots of supplements. It seems to work for them.

But does it work for the consumer?

 

[Echo]

MGT might have great sales, but buying a book and actually using it are two different things. How many people on this board alone have to search and search until they can find someone to play Traveller?

I think the test of truth will be this weekend at GenCon.

EDIT: I've already rolled up one character with MGT. It's not a bad system. It's similar, but not the same as CT. I did expect about double the number of pages in a book they hyped so much about.

I've had a regular group playing it since Christmas, and have played it with several other groups for one shots and the like, or just to try out the chargen system. I had tried the playtest game out sporadically before then too. My current group is wrapping up now, as I'm about to travel, but on the strength of the enjoyment they've had with the game, four of them have bought their own copies. At the start of the year, only one of them had ever heard of the Traveller game (most of their experience was with D&D, WoD, D6 and Savage Worlds). I also know that the Traveller game is being played by other groups in our region, and the corebooks at our local gamestore keep selling out.

 

[rust]

.
MGT might have great sales, but buying a book and actually using it are two different things.

Remember the polls about which versions of Traveller are used ?

Currently, of those who voted:

on CotI: 50 %
on RPG Site: 45 %
on RPG.net: 58 %
on EN World: 64 %

voted that they are using Mongoose Traveller.

 

[Supplement Four]

I've had a regular group playing it since Christmas, and have played it with several other groups for one shots and the like, or just to try out the chargen system. I had tried the playtest game out sporadically before then too. My current group is wrapping up now, as I'm about to travel, but on the strength of the enjoyment they've had with the game, four of them have bought their own copies. At the start of the year, only one of them had ever heard of the Traveller game (most of their experience was with D&D, WoD, D6 and Savage Worlds). I also know that the Traveller game is being played by other groups in our region, and the corebooks at our local gamestore keep selling out.

My experience has been a little different. :devil:

One of the players I usually game with (not in my current non-Traveller campaign) went out and bought the MGT core book. After he had looked it over, I asked him, "Well? Whaddaya think? Should we switch from CT to MGT next time we play Traveller?"

His response (no lie): "Are you kidding? It's crap. What we play is superior."

"Well, then," I said. "Mind if I have a looksee at the book?"

And he said, "Dude, you can have the book. It killed my interest in MGT."

So, now, I own the MGT core rule book.

Needless to say, the next time I start up a Traveller game, we won't be using MGT.

True story.

 

[rust]

My experience has been a little different. :devil:

Experiences differ, you know.

Over here it is currently quite easy to find material from the earlier versions
of Traveller, because many people who bought Mongoose Traveller are now
selling their old stuff to get money to buy the MGT supplements.

I will do the same as soon as the MGT supplements are there to replace the
outdated stuff, with CT Spinward Marches and CT 76 Patrons already up for
sale, and CT Mercenary and CT High Guard following soon.

My only problem with this is that I will likely not get much money for them,
because so many copies are coming onto the market now.

Edit.:
While writing about it ... I have the Traveller Book plus 18 supplements and
adventures here, and if anyone from Germany would like to send me a PM
with an offer ...

 

[Supplement Four]

My only problem with this is that I will likely not get much money for them,
because so many copies are coming onto the market now.

I have almost everything CT except for some obsure stuff. If you've got anything like that, I'll sure buy it from you.

 

[rust]

I have almost everything CT except for some obsure stuff. If you've got anything like that, I'll sure buy it from you.

The only item that might be considered somewhat obscure is perhaps SORAG
by Paranoia Press.

 

[Echo]

My experience has been a little different. :devil:

One of the players I usually game with (not in my current non-Traveller campaign) went out and bought the MGT core book. After he had looked it over, I asked him, "Well? Whaddaya think? Should we switch from CT to MGT next time we play Traveller?"

His response (no lie): "Are you kidding? It's crap. What we play is superior."

"Well, then," I said. "Mind if I have a looksee at the book?"

And he said, "Dude, you can have the book. It killed my interest in MGT."

So, now, I own the MGT core rule book.

Needless to say, the next time I start up a Traveller game, we won't be using MGT.

True story.

Um...have you played it?

 

[Supplement Four]

The only item that might be considered somewhat obscure is perhaps SORAG
by Paranoia Press.

I've got it. Thanks, though!

Um...have you played it?

Oh..I see. At first, I couldn't have an opinion unless I owned and had read the book (as many MGT fans said, my opinion was no good because I couldn't base it on other person's reviews of the book). Now that I have the book and have read through it, I've got to PLAY it as well.

My opinon is no good now that I haven't played the game using MGT rules?

What happens when I play a MGT session and still think it's a less that mediocre version of Traveller? Will someone come out and say, "Yeah..but, have you played a whole campaign using the MGT rules?"

Or maybe..."Your opinion is no good until you have played MGT for five years."

 

[Echo]

No need to jump off on one - I only asked!

But yes, honestly, I only think people can make a valid judgement about a game (not a book) after playing it.

 

[Supplement Four]

But yes, honestly, I only think people can make a valid judgement about a game (not a book) after playing it.

I don't think you people will stop until you've beaten in my resolve to the point where I fall down on both knees, look to the heavens, and scream, at the top of my lungs, "Yes! YES!! I see the light! Mongoose Traveller is the BEST version of the game to ever grace our gaming tables! Thanks be to Mongoose!"

I think Mongoose did a spectacular job on their Conan game. It's brilliant. It really is...and that's coming from a d20 system hater. In fact, it's the only d20 game that I will play (T20 included).

I said that to point out that I have nothing at all against Mongoose as a company. If they do a good job, I'll praise 'em. CONAN really is a brilliant, brilliant game that captures the atmosphere and spirit of the Hyborian Age.

Mongoose's version of Traveller, on the other hand, um...not so much.

 

[Echo]

All I asked was 'have you played the game?'

Hilarious!

 

[mike wightman]

Echo does have a point.

Until you (generic you by the way) actually sit down and use the rules as written, without any pre-conceived bias, you can't get a true value for any game.

I personally doubt I'll ever use MgT as written because my own house rules suit me better - but then I'd never use CT/MT/TNE/T4 as written again (major flaws in all of them IMHO). But if there is something in there that works better than what I have already then I'll take it and use it.

I don't think MgT is the best, it's not the worst (T4 shudder), but it is in print and being developed. It will get better, especially when third party variants start to make an appearance.

 

[Echo]

That's all I'm saying.

I've read plenty of books, or even flicked though books, thinking "this is awesome" or "this is rubbish", only to have my judgement confounded when I've actually played them.

I'm not trying to be confrontational about this, but actually, when I tried to play Classic Traveller (from the reprints) it was actually a bit frustrating. I loved the style, and respected the game immensly, but it was only when we used adjusted house rules, could we get it to work. Mongoose's Traveller actually fixed a lot of the things I found frustrating, without a word of a lie.

 

[jimg]

Particularly grating (and inexcusable) is the apparent lack of knowledge of basic military issues. At one point in the playtest, the designer (and several fans) had to be educated on how an assault rifle differs from a rifle. I haven't bought Mercenary yet, but the comments, and samples make me skeptical that there's gonna be a lot of serious thought about futuristic warfare.

This is especially galling because it has never been easier to educate oneself on basic military technology. So laziness, rather than lack of information, is the culprit here.

By contrast, the original Mercenary contained one of the most thoughtful analyses of futuristic warfare trends (informed by the technology assumptions of Traveller) ever. Of course, some of the near future predictions were wrong (no IR followup missiles, but we do have tandem warheads; failure to anticipate ERA armor; grossly underestimating the penetration capability of HEAP AT warheads, etc.) But as an example of the futurist's art, it's a tour de force.

In the core rule book, this lack of military knowledge didn't really phase me. I thought that they we're trying to demilitarize (for lack of a better word) the core ruleset. I was hoping that MGT:Mercenary would provide everything that would be needed for a military campaign... now I feel like I need to dig out my CT:Mercenary and Striker and convert what I need.

If Mongoose can't even come close to a 30 year game design, then perhaps they shouldn't try.

I don't know if I can agree with this wholeheartedly, but I do wish they had tried a little harder.