General Military Science Fiction Anthologies

[Enoki]

Tarawa was a "relatively undefended atoll"? The 2nd Marine Division took 3407 casualties in 76 hours, while killing about 5000 Japanese.

At the same time the U.S. Army's 27th Infantry Division was attacking Makin Atoll. Makin was relatively undefended, Tarawa was not, as Tarawa was large enough to hold an airfield, Makin was not.

Tarawa was taken to eliminate the Japanese base there. It wasn't taken to become a base. The US moved the fleet train and base to Majuro in the Marshalls next. There were three (3) Japanese troops on the atoll.

In Traveller terms, the USN kept finding systems with a class E or X starport in enemy territory that were perfect for basing a huge fleet out of and turned them into a class B starport in a matter weeks by importing everything in ships and barges.

 

[Timerover51]

Tarawa was taken to eliminate the Japanese base there. It wasn't taken to become a base. The US moved the fleet train and base to Majuro in the Marshalls next. There were three (3) Japanese troops on the atoll.

In Traveller terms, the USN kept finding systems with a class E or X starport in enemy territory that were perfect for basing a huge fleet out of and turned them into a class B starport in a matter weeks by importing everything in ships and barges.

The Marshalls were the last easy one for the Central Pacific force, and Majuro was not turned into a shore base. All of the supplies stayed on board the ships and barges until needed, then were transferred. Calling Majuro a Class B starport is more than a bit of a misnomer.

The Marshalls were also the last relatively easy islands the Central Pacific force had. The ones that followed were Saipan, Guam, Tinian, Peleliu, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa. Old Dug-Out Doug had problems with Biak and its cave defenses, got a by at Morotai, and then experienced Leyte and Luzon. For Biak, there was consideration of using gas on the Japanese caves, while on Iwo, there was very serious consideration to use gas, including some testing on what would be an effective combination of gases to use.

 

[Enoki]

The Marshalls were the last easy one for the Central Pacific force, and Majuro was not turned into a shore base. All of the supplies stayed on board the ships and barges until needed, then were transferred. Calling Majuro a Class B starport is more than a bit of a misnomer.

Hardly. The ServRons that included tenders of various sorts, repair ships, salvage ships, tugs (both harbor and ocean going), floating drydocks, along with supply ships, refrigerator ships, and dozens of barges loaded with fuel, dry stores, ammunition, etc.

The one a Majuro could supply 90,000 ship's crew for 30 days, along with 20,000 Marines for 30 days including all units of fire. On top of that they had aviation bombs and torpedoes for 15 days.

Ashore, distilling stations for freshwater were set up, along with building repair facilities and quarters for the forces on the island. Pontoons were brought in to form floating piers and build self-propelled lighters to move supplies ashore from ships at anchor.

At various times anywhere from 30 to 80 ships were anchored in the lagoon.

The largest tanker fleet to date was operating out of Majuro in twos and threes rotating out to sea to keep ships, particularly destroyers, topped off.

A major airfield was built in short order for the USAAF and USN to operate from.

I'd say a very busy port capable of repairing most any problem a ship had, along with supplying the equivalent of refined fuel, is very much the basis for a Class B starport. It might be spartan in amenities, but in the basics it's all there. They can't build ships, but they can repair just about anything that comes in, except for the most serious battle damage. Then they patch the ship up sufficiently to send it back to the West Coast or Pearl for repair.

 

[Timerover51]

Hardly. The ServRons that included tenders of various sorts, repair ships, salvage ships, tugs (both harbor and ocean going), floating drydocks, along with supply ships, refrigerator ships, and dozens of barges loaded with fuel, dry stores, ammunition, etc.

The one a Majuro could supply 90,000 ship's crew for 30 days, along with 20,000 Marines for 30 days including all units of fire. On top of that they had aviation bombs and torpedoes for 15 days.

Ashore, distilling stations for freshwater were set up, along with building repair facilities and quarters for the forces on the island. Pontoons were brought in to form floating piers and build self-propelled lighters to move supplies ashore from ships at anchor.

At various times anywhere from 30 to 80 ships were anchored in the lagoon.

The largest tanker fleet to date was operating out of Majuro in twos and threes rotating out to sea to keep ships, particularly destroyers, topped off.

A major airfield was built in short order for the USAAF and USN to operate from.

I'd say a very busy port capable of repairing most any problem a ship had, along with supplying the equivalent of refined fuel, is very much the basis for a Class B starport. It might be spartan in amenities, but in the basics it's all there. They can't build ships, but they can repair just about anything that comes in, except for the most serious battle damage. Then they patch the ship up sufficiently to send it back to the West Coast or Pearl for repair.

What is still there?

 

[Enoki]

What is still there?

The airfield for one:




Otherwise, when the ServRons moved to Ulithi atoll to support the invasion of Okinawa, most of what was at Majuro went there. The atoll lagoon is still relatively clear of obstructions to navigation (the USN SeeBees blew up coral head obstructions and dredged the lagoon and entry points back in WW 2 as part of the their base building, same as at Funafuti.



Scroll down about half way to see Majuro today. It'd be more like a Class C starport now.

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/HI/Airfields_W_Pacific.htm

 

[Timerover51]

Another snippet from Robert Sherrod's Tarawa, page 110.

Lines of corpsmen are bringing in the bodies as fast as they can find stretchers and wade into the shallow water. One Marine is brought in who has sufiEered the greatest indignity of all. His head has been blown off completely. His left arm is gone, and only a few shreds of skin hang from his shoulders. I thought I had become inured to anything, but I am nauseated by this sight. I turn to the big red-bearded Marine gunner who is standing beside me and say, “What a hell of a way to diel” The gunner looks me in the eye and says, “You can’t pick a better way.”

The way you learn what a battle is really like is read the accounts of me who have been actually in one.

Shots Fired in Anger

, by Lt. Col. John George, who fought on Guadalcanal and with Merrill's Marauders is another good one.

 

[aramis]

Another snippet from Robert Sherrod's Tarawa, page 110.



The way you learn what a battle is really like is read the accounts of me who have been actually in one.

Shots Fired in Anger

, by Lt. Col. John George, who fought on Guadalcanal and with Merrill's Marauders is another good one.

It the troops are fighting due to anger (theirs or their commander's), that's not a battle, but either a brawl or a war crime.

If they're firing with objective intent, that's another matter...

The definition given also ignores the difference between skirmish, engagement, brawl, and battle.

 

[Timerover51]

It the troops are fighting due to anger (theirs or their commander's), that's not a battle, but either a brawl or a war crime.

If they're firing with objective intent, that's another matter...

The definition given also ignores the difference between skirmish, engagement, brawl, and battle.

That is how the author titled the book. He was one of the finest rifle shots in the Army, and did do a fair amount of sniping on Guadalcanal. I would recommend that you read the book before commenting on it. He does describe the 132nd Regiment attack on the Gifu on Guadalcanal as well as some patrol actions. Basically, his combat actions cover skirmish, engagement, brawl, and battle. His book on his service with Merrill's Marauders also has some detailed accounts of combat actions.

 

[Timerover51]

To get an understanding of infantry life and combat on the Western Front in World War One on the part of the British, I would highly recommend Peter Jackson's documentary, They Shall Not Grow Old. This would be especially true if your grandfather or great-grandfather fought there.

 

[JimMarn]

One of my great uncles was there. My mother met him in the 1930s, but I didn't as he never came back to that area. He preferred to live far from other people. He, and a number of others who fought in the Canadian Army, according to what he told my mother, was given 200 acres in the Northwest Territories as long as they lived.

 

[Enoki]

For naval vessels, and I'd think the same for spaceships, the attitude is If the ship sinks / gets trashed and vacuumed, you die. If the ship stays afloat / remains relatively intact with an atmosphere you live.

The choice is heavily dependent on the crew's ability to handle damage control and keep it from letting the ship succumb to that damage.

After all, when the ship burns to the waterline and sinks 2000 miles from land, you are going to have to swim all that distance to survive...

I doubt space is much different. That's the way this retired Chief sees things.

 

[Carlobrand]

There are certain advantages in space. If your ship sinks in the sea, it doesn't really matter if the compartment you're in is still watertight - it won't stay that way very long. Unless you're lucky enough to sink in shallow waters, the bulkheads will eventually buckle under the increasing pressure and no one's likely to reach you before that happens. Worse, you're trapped - there's no getting out of the compartment and going for the surface on what you can carry in your lungs short of the wildest streak of luck. Subs are a little different, but then they're built to sink.

If you've somehow managed to survive in a ship that's been fully exposed to vacuum in space - say you're in a vacc suit - then you still might be able to find a compartment intact enough to seal breaches and restore atmosphere, or at least hope for your vacc suit to keep you alive until someone shows up to search for survivors.

 

[JimMarn]

Navy boot camp always told us to get well clear if we had to abandon ship. Of course, if you are below decks, from watching WW2 documentaries, this isn't always possible.

 

[Condottiere]

Tends to be safer than on topside, when you're on the losing end of a firefight.

 

[mike wightman]

The wet navy analogy can only be stretched so far.

In space being topside is not safer, there is no hull between you and radiation exposure, there is no air to breath.

Even a derelict space ship offers radiation protection and there may be emergency air stores or salvageable devices to keep you alive a bit longer than you would manage in the vacuum of space.

 

[aramis]

The wet navy analogy can only be stretched so far.

In space being topside is not safer, there is no hull between you and radiation exposure, there is no air to breath.

Even a derelict space ship offers radiation protection and there may be emergency air stores or salvageable devices to keep you alive a bit longer than you would manage in the vacuum of space.

Plus a modicum of debris and microbody protection.

A "destroyed" but not broken apart ship is more akin to a reefed wet naval ship than a sinking one.

 

[BwapTED]

The Bolo series is not that bad, but I simply cannot get excited about a super robot tank. Ogre, by Steve Jackson Games, made a passible war game, but the persons in control were human beings, at least most of them were. I was not sure about a couple of the younger players.

The problem is that I am comparing them against all of the military history that I have read since I was 9 (see current age in profile). That includes a lot of personal accounts, which make most of the military science fiction authors look pretty sick. How about the account by one of the pilot's flying the Ploesti low-level B-24 mission of August 1, 1943? Or Walter Lord's Incredible Victory? Or the Marines at Tarawa, Peleliu, and Iwo Jima? The Bloody Angle at Spotsylvania Courthouse? The Jewish last stand at Masada?

I did notice that the poll did not include the Dorsal series or any of Christopher Anvil's books. Have any of you ever read Pandora's Planet? E.R. Burroughs' has better stuff in his Barsoom series, although that is basically hand to hand combat in a lot of cases. Then you have some of the battle scenes in Robert Howard's books, and I do not mean just his Conan stores.

I have read Dorsai! and the other published books in the Childe series. I understand why Dorsai! could be considered mil sf, but the series as a whole is something else entirely.


R.E.H. wrote a good deal about individual soldiers-of-fortune, but very little about the business of war or the way military organizations function. His battles are painted with dash and vigor. I'm a fan. I can't think of any Howard works I'd classify as science fiction, but I haven't read all of his material, just much of it.

 

[aramis]

I have read Dorsai! and the other published books in the Childe series. I understand why Dorsai! could be considered mil sf, but the series as a whole is something else entirely.


R.E.H. wrote a good deal about individual soldiers-of-fortune, but very little about the business of war or the way military organizations function. His battles are painted with dash and vigor. I'm a fan. I can't think of any Howard works I'd classify as science fiction, but I haven't read all of his material, just much of it.

IIRC, Solomon Caine is more tech focused. Checking, he;s 16th to 17th C. So, still in the pulp past. It's written in a style that feels to some as Sci-Fi, in the same way that Vance's Dying Earth and Burroughs' Barsoom do...

 

[vegascat]

I spent several summers during the 60s and 70s in the local library reading historical books and sci-fi shelf by shelf before I joined the ranks of the teenagers. The British have a long tradition of historical fiction with H G Wells, JRR Tolkien, the Sharpe's series, and Captain Horatio Hornblower for a start. Anne McCaffery took a fantasy series based on dragons and turned it into hard sci-fi.
Military histories have a different flavor. Many were written by Generals with the aim to aggrandize their records. A few were written by enlisted or lower ranking officers who stood on the line where death was very common. Those who have participated in such festivities can never forget the sounds, the feel, the horrible smells of death. I recommend US Marine Eugene Sledge's book With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa. His book is best described as historical military horror. I recommend it especially to any teenager considering enlisting in any military service.
The actions associated with the award of the USA Medal of Honor recipients can be found here https://www.cmohs.org/. The British award the Victoria Cross and George Cross for similar actions. The award actions can be found here https://vcgca.org/

 

[Timerover51]

Some military history is written by generals, but a lot is not. Try reading Tarawa by Robert Sherrod, who was a war correspondent that landing on Tarawa on the first day, and did not expect to live out the first night. Then there is Shots Fired In Anger by John George, who was a lieutenant on Guadalcanal and then served with Merrill's Marauders. Some of the accounts in Battles and Leaders of the Civil War are written by generals, but some are not. Read the account of the hand-to-hand fighting at the Bloody Angle at Spotsylvania Court House if Volume 4, or some of the other battle accounts in the volumes of the series.

There is a book that I have entitled the 100 Best True Stories of World War 2, which is a collection of stories written by men and a few women who served or reported on the war. Richard Tregaskis, who wrote Guadalcanal Diary, has an account in it of what it was like to be wounded when he was working as a war correspondent in Italy. Then you have the correspondent that had to bail out over New Guinea in 1942, or the man who found himself beating off a shark with his fists, or some of the accounts of Tarawa, or D-Day.

Then there is the U.S Army "Green Book" series on World War 2. The following quote comes from the volume Victory in Papua. The quote may be found on page 114.

The men had been poorly fed. They were, for the most part, on the Australian ration--hardtack, bully beef, and tea, supplemented by a little rice. Because the unceasing wet had made it virtually impossible for them either to heat the ration or to boil water for tea, most ate the food cold and threw away the tea. The bully beef (corned, preserved beef of Australian manufacture) came in large, four- or five-pound tins. It was not only unappetizing, it often had a revolting fish-oil taste that caused some of the troops to retch when they tried eating it. Many of the tins had become contaminated: some had been contused or sprung when they were dropped from the air; others had been left out in the open without cover and had rusted. This contamination, together with the impossibility of sterilizing the few eating utensils the troops had with them, and the tendency of the oversize cans of beef to spoil before they were completely consumed, had its effect. Acute diarrhea and dysentery gripped most of the battalion, and many of the men had to cut holes in the seats of their trousers, so completely had they lost control of their bowel movements.

The "Green Book" series was not written by generals, but by historians, who do point out some of the gross mistakes made by certain generals, including Dugout Doug, aka Douglas MacArthur, who sent the 32nd Infantry Division into combat at Buna-Gona in Papua with no artillery support beyond 81mm mortars, because George Kenney, who commanded the Fifth Air Force held the view that the only artillery necessary was the kind that flew.

Even this represented better support than that advocated by General Kenney, who, in a letter to Lt. Gen. H. H. Arnold on 24 October, told the latter that neither tanks nor heavy artillery had any place in jungle warfare. "The artillery in this theater," he added, "flies."

That quote may be found on page 133 of the Victory in Papua volume.