Military unit sizes

[MR TEK]

Everybody tosses units around, and the conversation flows with the assumption that everybody else knows what you mean.

For the benifit of those of us not as familier with the military, could we get a simple break down of military units in traveler.

I also am aware that real world units vary by nation. I have always assumed unit sizes in the imperium at least approximate US forces, but you know what they say about assuming...

So, keep it simple..

How big is ...

A fire team
A squad
A platoon
A company
A typical large merc unit
Divisons
An Army
The Imperial grand army.

Also did I miss any typical units?

Are there differnces between Merc companies and Imperial units in composition?

What NCOs and officers are typical with each?

Also same brekdowns for Mechinized units, (grav or space capable. lower tech ground units would be the same, I would guess)

Finally, the same breakdowns in the navy. (space based of course.)

Would flotillas even be a viable unit?
Flights for figters
Squadrons
Fleets
Planitary fleets
Subsector fleets
Sector fleets
Border or regional fleeets if the Imperium uses such divisions.
The Imperal grand Navy.

I at least understand larger units are a number of smaller units, with an added unit staff, and axelery support units thrown in, I just don't know the sizes in traveller.

If anyone feels ambitious mech companies vs ground troop, and fire support units would be good to see as well.

I guess if I am asking for the kitchen sink, I might as well go all the way...

Do Imperial units specialize? Engineers, take-and- hold troops, high tech equivilent to mechanized troops, assult, heavy attack, and bombardment, or are they more general purpose?

Mechs by nature are bound to be more well rounded, since they would not have the troop strength to specialize as much, but would a Mech unit be all the same type troops, or wuld they mix a couple of basic types?

 

[Vargas]

A good place for the first category of information you're looking for is at Wikipedia which lists the sizes and officers associated with both US and UK units. (It includes cavalry units).

 

[BetterThanLife]

OK.

I am going to hit this in general.

The smallest unit is a Buddy Team. (2 people)
Fireteams are generally 2 Buddy Teams. (4 people)
Squads are generally 2-3 fireteams. (7-15 people)
Squads can be organized in sections, generally two to a section, or not.)
Platoons are organized as 3-4 squads or 2 sections.

Companies are generally 3-4 platoons.

Battalions are generally the first level with a mixed organization. Generally 4-5 Companies and perhaps 2-3 platoons.

Regiments or Brigades are generally the next level. The difference, generally, being that Brigades are capable of independent operation. They consist of 4-5 Battalions, probably 2-3 companies and a handful of platoons.

(Seeing a pattern here?

)

Divisions are generally 4-5 Brigades, a handful of Battalions and assorted companies.

Units above Division level vary widely.

There is no canon military organization, that I am aware of, there are lots of implications in canon but no actual TOE.

Mercenary units are also organized in various ways and depending widely on mission or profile.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

I ripped and reformatted this from a website on Military Units.

The Wikipedia also has a page that should provide further details.

"The term military unit is used to refer to any group of two or more soldiers. Armies are divided into groups of various sizes according to function and for tactical and administrative purposes. This article gives an overview of some of the terms used to describe military units in armed forces across the world. Whilst it is recognised that there will be differences between armies of different nations, it seems that a large proportion are modelled on the British and/or American models. Readers interested in the detailed specifics of a national army (including the British and American) should consult the relevant entry for that country."

"Typical military units in an army, inculding Name/Desigantion, Number of Troops, Number of Subordinate Units, and Officer in Charge."

CORPS
Troops: 30,000+
Sub Units: Varies
Lead By: Lieutenant General

DIVISION
Troops: 10,000 to 20,000
Sub Units: 2 to 4 brigades
Lead By: Major General

BRIGADE
Troops: 2000 to 5000
Sub Units: 2+ regiments or 3 to 6 battalions
Lead By: Brigadier General

REGIMENT (UK)
Troops: 650+
Sub Units: 1+ battalions
Lead By: Brigadier or Colonel

BATTALION
Troops: 300 to 1000
Sub Units: 2 to 6 companies
Lead By: Lieutenant Colonel

COMPANY
Troops: 150 to 300
Sub Units: 3 to 6 platoons
Lead By: Captain

PLATOON
Troops: 30 to 40
Sub Units: 2+ squads
Lead By: First or Second lieutenant

SQUAD
Troops: 8 to 12
Sub Units: 2+ fireteams
Lead By: NCO (Staff Sergeant)

FIRETEAM (Mostly USA)
Troops: 4 to 5
Sub Units: Members
Lead By: NCO (Sergeant)

I'm using the term "Troops" here to mean any military member attached to that unit, including officers, warrants, and enlisteds.

Your results may vary.

 

[The Oz]

To handle the naval stuff:

A Divison is made up of two to four ships, almost always of the same kind (DD, CL) and if possible of the same class (P.F. Sloan, Plankwell). Divisions are numbered sequentially based on what kind of ship they contain; DesDiv 211 is the 211st Destroyer Division.

A Squadron is two or more divisions, usually just two divisions and rarely more than four divisions. Again, the ships are almost always the saame kind and often the same class. Squadrons have sequential numbers based on the kind of ship contained; BatRon 14 is the 14th Battleship Squadron.

A Flotilla is a name for a large Squadron, usually of smaller ships and made up of multiple divisions (at least three, and could be up to six). Flotillas are usually just named and numbered sequentially based on the kind of ship; you might have the 27th Cruiser Flotilla, for instance.

Beyond the Squadron/Flotilla level navies usually do not have any formal organization with set numbers and kinds of ships. Instead ships are assigned as needed to give the necessary force for the mission.

Fleets are assigned to geographic areas (originally oceans, in TRAVELLER it's sectors or subsectors). Fleets are usually numbered (6th Fleet, 214th Fleet) but can be named (Mediterranean Fleet, Capital Fleet).

A Task Force is a collection of ships (usually divided into subordinate Task Groups) assigned to a large mission or entire campaign (capture the Marianas Islands, control the Regina subsector). Task Forces usually are numbered based on what fleet they belong to: TF 34 is the 4th TF of the 3rd Fleet.

A Task Group is a collection of ships that has been assigned to complete some specific mission (escort that convoy, patrol that star system). Task Groups are numbered based on what Task Force they belong to; TG 34.2 is the 2nd Task Group of Task Force 34.

 

[BetterThanLife]

One other point I am going to make about Mercenary units. I have seen Platoons organized, in canon, from 27 (Adventure 7) up to 41+ (Aslan Mercenary Cruisers). Companies from 127 (as an example number in LBB4) to 254 (Aslan Mercenary Cruisers again.) Much depends on organization, equipment and transport.

 

[sid6.7]

armies = 2+ corps. 36,000+ men
army groups = 2+ armies 73,000+ men

batterys = 6-8 guns
flights = 3-6 aircraft

squadrons =

3-5 tank
3-4 platoons of horse
2 capital ships + any amount of support vessels
3-4 flights


USA
brigades were FIXED amounts of troops
regiments were flexible in thier amounts.


i have noticed over time that for some reason
squads and platoon numbers shift the most and sometimes the other do too....


for me i dont remember hearing "fireteam"
till after 1990...

 

[mbrinkhues]

German Standard Brigade (text in english) including the organisation down to squad level can be found on this page The author also has older forms of BW organisations.

And if you take this link and drop the MTW (M113) for Unimog 1300 trucks, the 81mm totally, change Cobra for Milan ATGM and upgrade the tanks to M48A2GA2 and the LKW 0.25to (Mungo) to LKW 0.5to (Iltis) you get a late 1980s light motorized Infantry batallion (Jäger) Typ 1.

Jäger Typ 2 (Heavy Jäger Btl) retain the MTW but drop the tanks and towed mortars for 120mm. mortars on M113 chassis (12 mortars IIRC)

Jäger squads are bigger with 1+10 soldiers (1 NCO, 10 soldiers, one is the designated assistant squad leader). The squad can (but rarely does) split in two half-squads (5 and 6 persons)

Each german squad has/had the MG-3 GPMG. a 40mm Grenade Launcher similar to M79 (in addition to the rifle) and an RPG (Panzerfaust I or Panzerfaust III)

For some time in the 1970s/80s when the M48 was still a major battletank and the Leopard II was not yet there, the german army also had an assault gun in service with the mechanised infantry (8 per batallion) Officially a tank-hunter it was on occassions used the "classical" way supporting infantry with HE, during exercises

 

[Liam Devlin]

Originally posted by Mr TeK:
Everybody tosses units around, and the conversation flows with the assumption that everybody else knows what you mean. For the benifit of those of us not as familier with the military, could we get a simple break down of military units in traveler. I also am aware that real world units vary by nation. I have always assumed unit sizes in the imperium at least approximate US forces, but you know what they say about assuming...

So, keep it simple..

How big is ...

A fire team

4-men

A squad

2x Fire teams plus 2 NCO's

A platoon

3x Squads of 10 men each

A company

3x PLT's plus 1x 10-man HQ section

A typical large merc unit

IMTU, a Battalion Sized merc Outift is "large" , made up of 3-5 100-man companies.

Divisons

20,000 men

An Army

3x or More Corps

The Imperial grand army.

All 16x Imperial regiments, and units from 1,000 High Pop worlds, IMTU

Also did I miss any typical units?

Battalion: 3-5x 100-man companies
Brigade: 3+ Battalions Mission dependent.
Corps: 3x Divisons

Are there differnces between Merc companies and Imperial units in composition?

yes. Mercs equip as Mission parameters, base homeworld tech, and as per specialty tickets they take in their career field. Not all Mercs are Starmercs, not all are as MB calls them "mudmercs". Imperial Units have standardized issue of arms, vehicles, and munitions.

What NCOs and officers are typical with each?

Imperial Army NCO & Officer Corps are professionally trained within ranks and drawn from academies. Still, bad apples can exist a long time unnoticed within them both..

Mercs, usually veterans of former services, and quality varies. The inept, corrupt are weeded out soon, as the Merc Life isn't all glory and paychecks. Those with a few campaigns behind them, or ops, aren't any angels or choir boys/girls, but are likely to get the job done.

Finally, the same breakdowns in the navy. (space based of course.)

Would flotillas even be a viable unit?
Flights for figters
Squadrons
Fleets
Planitary fleets
Subsector fleets
Sector fleets
Border or regional fleeets if the Imperium uses such divisions.
The Imperal grand Navy.[/quote]
May I respectfully suggest you Buy Avenger press "The Grand Fleet" for all of this Fleet questions dude?

I at least understand larger units are a number of smaller units, with an added unit staff, and axelery support units thrown in, I just don't know the sizes in traveller.

If anyone feels ambitious mech companies vs ground troop, and fire support units would be good to see as well.

I guess if I am asking for the kitchen sink, I might as well go all the way...

yep,. you said it.

Do Imperial units specialize? Engineers, take-and- hold troops, high tech equivilent to mechanized troops, assult, heavy attack, and bombardment, or are they more general purpose?

Yes, they specialize. Moreso than the Imperial marines. Imp. Army is used to invest planets they don't want reduced to ashes and glass.

 

[flykiller]

if you're trying to decide what the imperial marines look like in your game, you might want also to consider transportation. does the navy have enough transport ships to move all these guys around? do they ever in fact assemble, or are they scattered everywhere?

 

[Chuck Anumia]

As I organize my Caste of Assassins Mercenary Corps in MTU:

ARMY
=3 CORPS
Troops: 90,000+

Lead By:4 Star General

CORPS
=3 Divisions
Troops: 30,000+
Lead By: Lieutenant General

DIVISION
=3 BRIGADES
Troops: 10,000 to 15,000
Lead By: Major General

BRIGADE
=5 Battalions (3 Line + 2 HQ Support Battalions)
Troops: 2000 to 5000
Lead By: Brigadier General

BATTALION
=4 Companys (3 line + 1 HQ Support)
Troops: 300 to 1000
Lead By: Lieutenant Colonel

COMPANY
=4 Platoons (3 Line + 1 HQ Support)
Troops: 150 to 300
Sub Units: 3 to 6 platoons
Lead By: First Lieutenant or Captain

PLATOON
= 4 Squads
Troops: 30 to 40
Lead By: First or Second Lieutenant

SQUAD
=2+ Firetems
Troops: 8 to 10
Lead By: NCO

FIRETEAM
=2 Buddy Teams + 1 NCO
Lead By: NCO

BUDDY TEAM
=2 Troops

 

[MR TEK]

Thanks everyone.

So now when the mecenary ship thread, for example, is talking about ships to transport a reinforced company, I understand how many men they mean.

It is much easier to follow these threads when I understand the terms everyone uses.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Your welcome, Mr Tek. We're just trying to be helpful--glad we succeeded.

 

[atpollard]

I learned that with the variability within real life and Traveller references, terms like Platoon and Company are actually pretty fuzzy.

I liked the way that Heretic Keklas Rekobah listed the rank of the CO with the unit size. That was a nice touch.

 

[Liam Devlin]

Agreed. HKR's rank structure is the model I use and follow as well.

Kudos to the Heretic!