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Minor Alien Module 1: Luriani

Personally I like the interior art (am going to request the same artist for my next). The cover? Not my favourite, but as sci fi stock art goes, not too bad (as Dragoner points out, there is MUCH worse). Sadly yeah society tends to portray women a particular way, that's life.

And the book does specifically mention that Imperial society does tend to sterotype Luriani (the stock 'Luriani hottie' is mentioned :) ). Part of the intent of the book was to cover the disonance between perception and reality.
 
I know some people bought the book *despite* the cover (I was _this close_ to being one of them), while others I think are perfectly happy with the titillation. Either way, my assumption was that at least everyone _acknowledged_ it to be sexist.

It's a picture of a healthy woman with a pretty face and big breasts clad in something a good deal less titilating than what I can see on the street any day from spring to fall. What exactly is the sexist part?

(Mind you, I'm not saying some other picture wouldn't work better as the cover of a book about a minor human race. A family group in a less generic setting doing something typically Luriani, perhaps.)

But now you have me curiously wondering: do you disagree that the cover objectifies women or just think that it's no big deal that it does?

In order to objectify someone, you have to have a message. What is the message in the picture that objectifies women as a class or even just the woman in the picture? Does it say that it is OK to treat her as a tool? Does it treat her as lacking in agency or self-determination? Does it treat her as if she is the property of another? Does it treat her as if she interchangable with any other woman? Does it treat her as if it is permissible to damage or destroy her? Does it treat her as if there is no need to show concern for her feelings and experiences?


Hans
 
Cheesy, yes. Sexist? Not really, it doesn't portray the woman in a stereotypical role, or purely objectifies her (such as a naked sex-object would for example).

Ok.... Interesting criteria for you to consider something to be sexist. Suffice it to say I don't think nudity is required and that I feel the cover clearly objectifies women.

Many other game companies have done much worse:

Just because other companies have 'done much worse' doesn't make this any less bad.
 
Ok.... Interesting criteria for you to consider something to be sexist. Suffice it to say I don't think nudity is required and that I feel the cover clearly objectifies women.

The criteria is the standard definition. Maybe you could express what you mean by it clearly objectifying? I see young women here in the summer wearing very little, and it would be considered very wrong to tell them how to dress.

If you will notice, I was first to mention the cover being off, however it doesn't actually cross into poor taste the way the exalted cover does.
 
In order to objectify someone, you have to have a message. What is the message in the picture that objectifies women as a class or even just the woman in the picture?

I think it says pretty clearly the woman is the breasts, which are the focal point of the picture. I find it hard to believe anyone can look at it and not have 'breasts' be the first thought that comes to mind. I think that was a conscious decision in the choice of this picture for the cover. I think all this is more than sufficient to show it objectifies women.
 
lol my what a fun discussion :)

For the record, my biggest problem with the cover art is that it doesn't match the text. The decision to put Luriani outside what we see as 'attractive' (ie larger with a tendency towards smaller bust) was quite deliberate :)

As Hans points out she's more modestly dressed than what you'll see every day in summer and the headgear points at a reasonably 'active' profession.
 
I think it says pretty clearly the woman is the breasts, which are the focal point of the picture. I find it hard to believe anyone can look at it and not have 'breasts' be the first thought that comes to mind. I think that was a conscious decision in the choice of this picture for the cover. I think all this is more than sufficient to show it objectifies women.

I guess I have to ask what you mean by 'objectifying women' and why you think it's bad, then.

Note that I'm not asking what is wrong about objectifying women as I understand the meaning of the term, but I don't think your definition is the same as mine. Just to be clear: I do think it's wrong to objectify women (in the way I think 'objectify' means). Real women, that is. I find it hard to muster any indignation about treatment of women in the abstract and even more so about treatment of bits of colored pigments on paper.


Hans
 
I also was a "not gonna buy a book with that sort of cover" guy, but I broke down and picked up a copy.

VERY nice work AndreaV - "Luriani" is worthy of standing up with the best of the other Mongoose Alien books.

Thank you, I enjoyed writing it (and really rather enjoy playing them)
 
I think it says pretty clearly the woman is the breasts, which are the focal point of the picture. I find it hard to believe anyone can look at it and not have 'breasts' be the first thought that comes to mind. I think that was a conscious decision in the choice of this picture for the cover. I think all this is more than sufficient to show it objectifies women.

Not to try and put you off, and actually applauding your sentiment, but my first thought was actually smile.
 
Thank you, I enjoyed writing it (and really rather enjoy playing them)

It is actually one of the most interesting, with the whole DD/Dd/dD/dd genetics; we will see what Don does with the Droyne though. Mind you, I am working on including the Luriani into my campaign, having picked worlds and such.

I think it says pretty clearly the woman is the breasts, which are the focal point of the picture. I find it hard to believe anyone can look at it and not have 'breasts' be the first thought that comes to mind. I think that was a conscious decision in the choice of this picture for the cover. I think all this is more than sufficient to show it objectifies women.

To me it does detract from the quality of the picture, though maybe having lived in California for 20 years and seeing women who did have breast augmentation surgery such as that in real life ... well, it is not exactly that nice looking. While I am just a fan like yourself, I understand and I am sorry you feel the way you do; you should definitely follow your conscience.
 
It is actually one of the most interesting, with the whole DD/Dd/dD/dd genetics; we will see what Don does with the Droyne though. Mind you, I am working on including the Luriani into my campaign, having picked worlds and such.

LOL more interesting is some of the stuff I left out. Things such as the appearance of Luriani men (the Luriani should have a VERY low level of sexual dimorphism, males have no facial hair, fine feminine features and with internal genitalia to maintain streamlining like seals). Obsolete gender roles, Luriani concepts of 'courtly manners,' Luriani and sex. Maybe one day I'll find a home for some of it.
 
Sounds interesting, could you release it as a special supplement?

Another thing I wish somebody would publish is a book of psuedo generic minor aliens to populate worlds with in an ad hoc manner, save me the task of making them so I can keep doing things like stating out the spider bombs from robots.
 
Was thinking of using some of it in a Ley sector submission I'm working on (no it's not been approved, I'm just writing it and seeing what Matt thinks).
 
I'll take things a bit out of order here...

Just to be clear: I do think it's wrong to objectify women (in the way I think 'objectify' means). Real women, that is. I find it hard to muster any indignation about treatment of women in the abstract and even more so about treatment of bits of colored pigments on paper.

I think how women are portrayed in media, whether 'real' women or otherwise, is equally important.

I guess I have to ask what you mean by 'objectifying women' and why you think it's bad, then.

I've tried to avoid writing a wall of text, but I'm really getting the urge! Thankfully I *need* to get myself ready and to work, so I'll try to keep this pretty succinct. Apologies if this is a bit of a ramble, I won't have much time to fully flesh out thoughts/proofread.

I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote that the picture says, 'the woman is the breasts.' To put it another way, WOMAN = BREASTS. That's all you need to know to understand this picture.

Now, there've been a few arguments against this being sexist/objectification. They seem to fall into a few categories. 1) There's worse imagery out there. 2) Some real women dress worse/have implants/naturally big breasts/etc. 3) She's not dis-empowered (e.g., restrained, submitting, etc). 4) She's not nude.

I think these are all beside the point. I'm not here to start social commentary on how some women dress, why they feel the need to augment their breasts (but consider: perhaps images like this contribute?), and I don't think something should be judged as acceptable simply because there are worse things out there.

A bit more about the nudity. I don't think nudity = objectification. I think a nude picture of a woman showing her breasts can be perfectly acceptable based on how the imagery is presented.

Let's do a quick evaluation of the cover. I know Andrea said the first thing she saw was the smile (that's a smile?!?), but I think most people would agree that's an exception. Most people will see the breasts before anything else. If you disagree, well, I guess I can't convince you of that.

The breasts are pretty much center in the picture, which coincides with them being _central_ to the message. The character and the background are pretty much separate; there doesn't appear to be any 'story' here. Do you wonder, why is she there? Where is she? What is she about to do?

The picture doesn't present a story, it doesn't make you question anything, it's there simply to provide titillation. You don't think about the woman as a person. You look at the breasts as an object of desire. That's what makes it objectification and sexist imagery.

Let's compare with a different cover for an alien module with a woman - Alien Module 3: Darrians. Here we have a woman in the foreground, a couple others in the background (the middle one could be a man or a woman). The foremost woman is in an interesting pose (though still mildly suggestive), is clearly in the environment, which is itself interesting.

Do I think the Darrian cover is perfect? No, I think the woman is still in a mildly suggestive pose while holding a gun, which I think was unnecessary. But there's a lot else going for the picture; it asks the questions I listed above. There is a story to this image, and it's not 'about' the woman's breasts.

Sorry, I really must be off to work... I hope this helps clarify where I'm coming from.
 
Hi,

I bought this on Drivethru without looking at the cover, apart from the tiny little image on the site, I read the blurb the wife said it was Ok to spend the money so I made the purchase. I would not let a cover influence my purchasing decisions.

I WAS disappointed by the cartoon art in the book. I DID like the background, starships and the efforts they are making at croos-breeding and cloning.

I promptly designed a 400 ton Luriani Escort (J3, T5) and am looking at ways to have some Lurianin in the Trojan Reach, I think Torpol jumped out at me as a lokely place...

I'm guessing the character generation rules apply to racial Luriani rather than Human Luriani and am going with that.

I thought it was excellent overall, will try and do a proper review at some point.

Kind Regards

David
 
I thought I was pretty clear when I wrote that the picture says, 'the woman is the breasts.' To put it another way, WOMAN = BREASTS. That's all you need to know to understand this picture.

I could give you an argument about that. Though the breasts are certainly a prominent feature, it's not the only feature you notice. But let's assume you're right and it is all about the breasts. If it is, it's all about the breasts of one particular woman, and an imaginary one at that. It's not a statement about all women. Even if the picture is saying "This woman is nothing but her breasts", I object to the jump from one woman to all women. Furthermore, it is an imaginary woman. If it had been an actual woman, you might have an argument for being indignant on her behalf (The question of whether or not her own opinion mattered is far too complex for me to get into here). But as I said above, the rights and feelings of pigments and paper don't rate very high on my scale of wrongs. Or rather, it doesn't rate at all.


Hans
 
You guys are reading way, way too much into the cover.

It's a badly executed piece of Poser artwork. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
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