Misjump - where the heck are we?

[Spenser TR]

I did dig a bit for the answer to this, but couldn't find much.

If a ship misjumps into a hex with a known system - one that shows up on their charts - I assume the crew would know where they were. If there was a starport or nav beacons, they'd get telemetry from these. If there wasn't any telemetry but the system was in their charts they could compare what they're seeing to what's listed, and probably figure where they were.

If a ship misjumps and unintentionally comes to a random empty hex eek, what kind of task is it to figure out where they are, based on what they can see in the background star field?

I assume it wouldn't be too difficult to plot the location of a few odd stellar landmarks and do some trig, but maybe I have this all wrong.

How do you handle it in your game? Are there rules I'm not finding?

 

[Proneutron]

If a ship misjumps and unintentionally comes to a random empty hex eek, what kind of task is it to figure out where they are, based on what they can see in the background star field?

For an Astrogator it would be a simple task. Simply triangulate off of known pulsars. I imagine one just presses a button and a program, using passive sensor data, would do it without much human input.

 

[coliver988]

For an Astrogator it would be a simple task. Simply triangulate off of known pulsars. I imagine one just presses a button and a program, using passive sensor data, would do it without much human input.

that would be my answer as well. No need to go to the observation dome with your astrolabe (now, Space:1889, maybe so)

 

[BRover]

Also, currently, the longest known misjump over some thousands of years is 36 parsecs, so the problem is limited. Even a few bright stars could be id'ed by spectral data, and their positions plotted. Where the appropriate possible lines of sight intersect--that's your position!

 

[whartung]

36 parsecs isn't enough to age the stars, so any data gathered should be accurate. Simply, the universe looks much like it did before the jump.

The next question is how long would it take for the ship to do a full space scan (the entire sphere of "the sky") in order to track down those pulsars and other star signatures. In theory it doesn't have to do a full scan, it only needs to identify 3 or 4 known stars/pulsars, so once is stumbles upon them, it should be good to go. That said, it would be best to have some (angular) separation of the bodies, so you'd want to capture them from different quadrants of the sky.

I think the "know pulsars" and star spectra works well for "near" jumps, I don't know how well it would work for a "1 million light years" jump.

This is, literally, a different time. If you jump 1M LY in some direction, then all of the "local" bodies are 1M years older, while all of the old "local" bodies are 1M years younger.

How long does a pulsar last, for example? All we can say for certain it that they seem to last at least a 100 years, since that's really all we have data for (today).

Now, modeling I'm sure suggests they last much longer. Outside of outright exploding, everything stars do take "a long time", especially at a human time scale.

But, how different would an area look shifted by 1M years.

 

[Proneutron]

I think the "know pulsars" and star spectra works well for "near" jumps, I don't know how well it would work for a "1 million light years" jump.

Since the pulsars are spread throughout the galaxy it works well no matter where you land in the galaxy. Granted, if you end up half way across the galaxy your star charts may not be super accurate so knowing your location may not be as useful as hoped...

 

[BackworldTraveller]

Why so complicated? - The IISS publishes a star catalogue so just compare the 10 brightest to all stars within 36 parsecs...should take seconds on a small hand-computer.

 

[Proneutron]

Why so complicated? - The IISS publishes a star catalogue so just compare the 10 brightest to all stars within 36 parsecs...should take seconds on a small hand-computer.

I don't know why one would think it's complicated touching the "Find & Display Location" Icon on the Garmin® Galaxy 8000 Avionics display?

 

[Timerover51]

A mis-jump of 36 parsecs might not even get you out of the sector that you are in, depending on the direction of the jump. Now, if you are in deep space, with empty fuel tanks, you might have a bit of a problem.

When I think mis-jump, I think in terms of hundreds of parsecs, or maybe from the Solomani Rim to the Spinward Marches. Now, that I call a mis-jump.

 

[BackworldTraveller]

I don't know why one would think it's complicated touching the "Find & Display Location" Icon on the Garmin® Galaxy 8000 Avionics display?

Because the guy who has responsibility for doing this is paid so much?

 

[Grav_Moped]

A mis-jump of 36 parsecs might not even get you out of the sector that you are in, depending on the direction of the jump. Now, if you are in deep space, with empty fuel tanks, you might have a bit of a problem.

When I think mis-jump, I think in terms of hundreds of parsecs, or maybe from the Solomani Rim to the Spinward Marches. Now, that I call a mis-jump.

That's a referee-fiat misjump (or a bad roll with a Hop Drive...)

 

[Straybow]

The idea of misjumps sending the ship up to 36 parsecs is a kludge. What a misjump should do is dump the ship at a somewhat random location within range, probably not too far off the intended line of travel. It would likely be years of travel by M drive from safety. Communication limited by c might take months or years to summon help.


Maybe starports have tech that could detect disturbances in jump space. It would probably not detect the event for up to a week, and if a rescue could be mounted with a ship that can jump to your location and back, you'd be waiting at least a week for that to arrive.


You'd really be stuck if it were >J1 and your destination didn't have much of a starport.

 

[Condottiere]

Misjump covers a wide variety of unwanted outcomes.

You could have jump drift.

 

[Drakon]

A mis-jump of 36 parsecs might not even get you out of the sector that you are in, depending on the direction of the jump. Now, if you are in deep space, with empty fuel tanks, you might have a bit of a problem.

When I think mis-jump, I think in terms of hundreds of parsecs, or maybe from the Solomani Rim to the Spinward Marches. Now, that I call a mis-jump.

As part of a game, one of my characters was shuttling a scrapped out Sulimann for my boss, Markos Grut of Grut Enterprises, Vincennes (Deneb 1122). It was the cheapest of the 5 scouts he'd purchased.

The jump seemed a bit weird, but finally popped out near Fergus (RD 2014). And then, the Emperor gets shot and all hell breaks loose while this kid is trying to patch the ship up and get home. It's going to take a while, and wars are erupting all along the flight path back. But, that's the adventure part.

 

[Grav_Moped]

The idea of misjumps sending the ship up to 36 parsecs is a kludge. What a misjump should do is dump the ship at a somewhat random location within range, probably not too far off the intended line of travel. It would likely be years of travel by M drive from safety. Communication limited by c might take months or years to summon help.


Maybe starports have tech that could detect disturbances in jump space. It would probably not detect the event for up to a week, and if a rescue could be mounted with a ship that can jump to your location and back, you'd be waiting at least a week for that to arrive.


You'd really be stuck if it were >J1 and your destination didn't have much of a starport.

It seems to me to be an arbitrary kludge that's meant to be a framework for referee fiat. ("This is how misjump exit points are distributed. If you don't want to turn a misjump into a total party kill -- or even if you do -- drop them wherever you feel like within that range, keeping the distribution in mind.")

The actual distribution of Misjump endpoints (as written) is a bit skewed as well.
Step 1: 1D dice for distance, but with no connection to attempted Jn. This gives you a strong bias toward the misjump being under 18Pc; 36pc misjumps will be quite rare.

I might have to brush up on my 35-year-unused BASIC skills to work out a plot for this if someone else doesn't beat me to it... (just downloaded VintageBasic).

[EDIT: Hey, some of it's coming back! I remembered how to get RND( ) to make a D6 roll that's plausibly random... This will take a bit, and it's late. Might get to it in the morning.]

Step 2: 1D for direction. There are only 6 possible directions, which REALLY cuts down the possible destinations.

Step 3: 1D for duration (no connection with distance).

There aren't any rules for misjumped ships to discover their position after misjump exit. Whether this was meant to imply a task roll with Navigation as a DM, or whether it was assumed to be a trivial task based on triangulation from known stellar landmarks, is unknown.

 

[coliver988]

...snip
There aren't any rules for misjumped ships to discover their position after misjump exit. Whether this was meant to imply a task roll with Navigation as a DM, or whether it was assumed to be a trivial task based on triangulation from known stellar landmarks, is unknown.

It was my assumption that it would be a navigation roll (now astrographics). at the time way back it would have been the traditional 8+ for our group w/the skill added in. In light of later editions I'd go with an easier roll, and factor in how long they take if the player wanted that option as well to make it even easier.

And that was the joy of many RPG games: you did not need a rule for every single possible thing. A few broad rules and then play it the way you want to run your game. In re-reading some of the other threads about skill explosions, I've come to appreciate the more minimalistic classic rule set even more.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Agreed on the minimalistic skill rules.

Part of the problem is that players back in the '80s might not have known that you could triangulate known pulsars for position (making it a trivial exercise). Some surely did, but not all. Then again, "roll 8+, +Navigation" gets you there after a few attempts anyhow.

 

[Proneutron]

Agreed on the minimalistic skill rules.

Part of the problem is that players back in the '80s might not have known that you could triangulate known pulsars for position (making it a trivial exercise). Some surely did, but not all. Then again, "roll 8+, +Navigation" gets you there after a few attempts anyhow.

Here is the "problem". When playing D&D type game it is set in a fantasy medieval setting. Tech advancement during our lives doesn't impact game play nor our views of it. Traveller was written 40+ years ago and was set FAR into our future. Therefore when the rules become antiquated as our tech advances beyond Travellers supposed 5,000 years in the future tech it creates a need to change the rules for many

 

[coliver988]

Here is the "problem". When playing D&D type game it is set in a fantasy medieval setting. Tech advancement during our lives doesn't impact game play nor our views of it. Traveller was written 40+ years ago and was set FAR into our future. Therefore when the rules become antiquated as our tech advances beyond Travellers supposed 5,000 years in the future tech it creates a need to change the rules for many

well, yeah. And later editions do attempt with varying degrees of success to model that (i.e. Mongoose 2e does not have any tonnage for computers, though consoles take space). But when playing Classic Traveller, I tend to stick with those rules. I like those rules, as they were my introduction to RPGs. Not to say I don't have my own house rules, and when playing I do mix and match rule sets to fit the game we're having. But: I like big computers, I cannot lie

And being in the software business, you know about moving people's cheese...same applies to rule sets

 

[Grav_Moped]

Here is the "problem". When playing D&D type game it is set in a fantasy medieval setting. Tech advancement during our lives doesn't impact game play nor our views of it. Traveller was written 40+ years ago and was set FAR into our future. Therefore when the rules become antiquated as our tech advances beyond Travellers supposed 5,000 years in the future tech it creates a need to change the rules for many

It's not really a problem per se, since just running the task resolution process gets you to the same place. What it is, is the difference between what the player knows and what the character knows.

That is, you and I know you can triangulate from pulsars to get a position fix.
A teenage astronomy nerd would know this.
Some young SF fans might know it.
Random junior-high-school kids back in the 1980s playing Traveller because their D&D GM was off that week... wouldn't. have. a. clue.

But, a starship's navigator would absolutely know this.

Hence, the task resolution process. If the player just asked, "can I get a position fix based on known pulsars?" I'd skip the roll and just give it to them.