Missiles in CT

[Murph]

Classic Traveller Missiles appear to be pretty much the equal of the TOW missile or the Russian equivalent when turret missiles are used. Bay Missiles are not really described, but in my Traveller game, Missile bays held large missiles like those in the Honor Harrington series, with X-Ray warheads or the classic 2300 detonation laser missile like the SIM-14.

Comment?

 

[BlackBat242]

Special Supplement 3 Missiles (a removable insert in JTAS # 21 [1984]) gives CT rules for larger bay missiles.

The article also discusses different warhead types (even nukes) for all missile sizes - yes, your 100dt scout/courier can carry & fire nuke missiles from its turret!

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Missiles_in_Traveller

 

[mike wightman]

Traveller missiles are psionic, or powered by ancient era portal technology, possibly antimatter engines.

Can't think of any other way to get a 50kg package the ability to accelerate at 6g for hours.

 

[kilemall]

Traveller missiles are psionic, or powered by ancient era portal technology, possibly antimatter engines.

Can't think of any other way to get a 50kg package the ability to accelerate at 6g for hours.

Same way you can operate a 100 ton ship acceling at 2Gs for a month with relatively little fuel.

As I recall SS3 doesn't actually do missile bay missiles, the dimensions for missile bay missiles are given in Striker Rule 75, but you could probably retrofit the SS3 rules to support them if you were so inclined.

Ah here it is- turret missiles have 15cm CPR round equivalent warheads, bay missiles 25cm CPR round equivalent warheads, 25 launchers in a 50 ton bay and 50 launchers in a 100 ton bay, ROF one per 30 seconds so in 20 minutes you can fire 40 missiles.

Doesn't talk about length of missile, but since we are apparently assuming double tonnage per rack set (2 tons per launcher), I would probably assume twice as long in addition to 'fatter', so something like a 200kg missile, 10 per launcher, 250 per 50 tons 500 per 100 tons.

 

[mike wightman]

At least a ship has a fusion power plant powering its magic engine.

A missile burns fuel... must be fairy dust

 

[BlackBat242]

As I recall SS3 doesn't actually do missile bay missiles, the dimensions for missile bay missiles are given in Striker Rule 75, but you could probably retrofit the SS3 rules to support them if you were so inclined.

Page 2 of SS3, in the sixth paragraph of "Missile Parameters" it states

Missiles which exceed 50 kg must be handled in launch bays available under the High Guard construction system; they cannot be launched from ordinary turret missile launch racks.

Then, in the propulsion system tables, it lists masses of up to 83kg for just the "propulsion assembly" part of the missile - looks like the motor/fuel tank for a 100kg+ bay-type missile to me!

 

[kilemall]

Page 2 of SS3, in the sixth paragraph of "Missile Parameters" it states

Then, in the propulsion system tables, it lists masses of up to 83kg for just the "propulsion assembly" part of the missile - looks like the motor/fuel tank for a 100kg+ bay-type missile to me!

As I said, you can make a missile bay missile with SS3, but it certainly is not explicit re: size, kg or warhead capacity.

 

[samuelvss]

Classic Traveller Missiles appear to be pretty much the equal of the TOW missile or the Russian equivalent when turret missiles are used. ...
Comment?

The TOW is about 22.6 kg, but that was including the tube; part of the "round," but not part of the missile. I recall, from my time as a TOW PL, that the tube was about

This 50 kg always seemed pitifully low, especially since somewhere in canon it had said that HE missiles were proximity. Now, that works wonderfully for light-skinned targets like aircraft, and people, but the basic, "unarmored" hull is listed in Striker as being quite stout. IMTU, I always had the HE missile as some type of a penetrator. As to the acceleration, I never worried about it since it was not part of play, but I never used SS3. I would assume it would be much higher than 6G, but not constant.

I have designed a number of missiles in Striker, but atmosphere makes a huge difference; the wind resistance is a huge part of the equation, but I do not know how accurately Striker depicts this.

 

[kilemall]

This 50 kg always seemed pitifully low, especially since somewhere in canon it had said that HE missiles were proximity. Now, that works wonderfully for light-skinned targets like aircraft, and people, but the basic, "unarmored" hull is listed in Striker as being quite stout. IMTU, I always had the HE missile as some type of a penetrator. As to the acceleration, I never worried about it since it was not part of play, but I never used SS3. I would assume it would be much higher than 6G, but not constant.

The Striker rules actually have some sort of warheads that could penetrate in the required ranges.

SS3 has the warheads coming in proximity, nuclear and direct impact flavors. The proximity ones would typically use 'directed energy' versions to increase hit damage.

There is a direct impact calc, for every 3G or 30G of collective velocity the missile gets an hit (but, has to roll a hit, so agility of the missile really counts). I think it's 3G, and that's collective, so a missile on collision course with a ship, heading at each other at 9G each would have direct hit missiles delivering +6 hits in addition to warhead effects.

So head on games of missile firing chicken can be rather destructive, a fast moving fighter for instance can generate some serious oomph for each missile that hits- and can explain the 1d6 hits in the normal game (randomizing the impact variable).

Nuclear warheads of course do not have penetration problems.

 

[mike wightman]

The extra damage is based on the size of the vector the missile has generated prior to hitting, not the g rating of the missile.

For every 300mm of relative vector you get an extra hit.

There is no roll to hit, you just have to be able to plot an intercepting vector (get within 25mm of the target)

 

[kilemall]

The extra damage is based on the size of the vector the missile has generated prior to hitting, not the g rating of the missile.

For every 300mm of relative vector you get an extra hit.

There is no roll to hit, you just have to be able to plot an intercepting vector (get within 25mm of the target)

I translated the 300mm into Gs as a vector descriptor which is perfectly reasonable, not the G accel of the missile. But it is handy to figure backhand how many more hits a missile could generate with it's own accel against a 'cooperative' target. A target running away of course is subtracting it's vee and so it can be neutralized (short of PD hits).

Homing at 25mm is true of the general rules, but there ARE agility rules involved, look closer.

 

[mike wightman]

I have looked closer - there is no to hit roll or agility factors mentioned in the missiles special supplement.

Are you thinking of the rules in Mayday perhaps? There is a to hit roll in that game.

 

[kilemall]

Mmkay, reread the whole thing, and there are two agility components, one with the evade module (in the errata not the original, +1 DM to succeed in evading anti-missile fire per G of missile) and a throw to hit for those using range bands with limited burn missiles.

The throw to intercept is to hit on turns 2 and 3 of the limited burn missile, 4+, + DM remaining fuel. After 3 turns the missile cannot hit.

Otherwise, fully plotted/mini movement has interception as you say within 25mm of missile path vs. target, impact (which is adding the 1 hit per 300mm sum of closing velocity or 3G per hit as I describe it) requires a direct line that crosses the target vessel.

So, we are both sort of right and sort of wrong.

I view the to-hit roll for missiles in HG as abstracting the ubiquitous use of ECM.

 

[bobcatt]

Special Supplement 3 plus 1986 errata (PDF)

Hello,

I'm lead to understand that such a beast exists, but I have not been able to locate it. I have the physical copy of SS3 but wish to obtain the revision, which is supposedly PDF only.

Can anyone offer a lead?

bobcatt (Chris in Canada)