Mobile Phones of the future

[DaveChase]

That's mostly a military need, not a civilian one.
...

Military might be a higher priority at needing, but you are incorrect to assume that civilian (businesses) would not also want/need such a line.

Who do think actually does the work, generates the income and builds those things for the military. If the civilians can not communicate with each other and the government, you will not accomplish anything.

Dave Chase

 

[Timerover51]

That's mostly a military need, not a civilian one.

Landlines will remain the dominant method of transmission of the highest bandwidth data, but wireless may well reach the point of being "fast enough" for the bulk of civilian uses. The infrastructure costs, both time and Cr, are dramatically cheaper for a wireless solution.

As for monitoring, encryption will either be sufficient or it won't. Can't really say one way or the other. If it is, while the messages may not be decipherable, there's still location information and traffic patterns that can be monitored. So, wireless is still vulnerable to some intelligence gathering.

If encryption is not reliable, then it's not just a wireless issue, it's a societal communication issue. That would be a much more curious thing to think about. Military encryption is reliable, and unbreakable, so that won't be an issue. It's just simply too difficult to manage for general civilian processes.

We'll see if quantum techniques can hold water for the long term.

Hmmm, you really think that military encryption is unbreakable?

 

[Cryton]

Hmmm, you really think that military encryption is unbreakable?

I'm with Timerover on this one. As a former Communications Computers Systems Operator for the Military, I can say for a fact that the encryption is most definitely NOT unbreakable.

The codes they use are changed daily, so what you have one day, is no good the next.

Also, dedicated lines are used for classified message traffic, ones that usually have no connection to unclassified lines, or to anything other than other classified systems.

What military computers people find online are the unclassified systems, and old messages that have been de-classified due to time and moved from the secure system to the unclassified one (usually by large mag-tape reel as there is no physical or wireless connections between the two systems).

As for their radio traffic...different story.

 

[Enoki]

Pretty much everyone of appropriate TL IMTU carries a comm that is at least equivalent to a modern smartphone. It may or may not look like a smartphone - may be in the form of a wristwatch "with benefits" (but still tells time!), or one of those bluetooth ear-phones (w holo projection as needed). Most people and places don't have the whole "augmented reality" thing IMTU, bc that is a bit beyond my personal "singularity" of what I think I comprehend well enough to weave into the story.

These comms don't all hook into anything like our current cellular network in most places, because I think that as more and more gadgets have wireless network connections, there are going to be real bandwidth problems if all are connecting through cell towers. Instead, most comms and other wireless devices are very short range, connecting to some appropriate router-type device nearby and from there into whatever higher level network is needed for whatever function is being used.

So, for example, ship crew will have comms that connect wirelessly to a very-short-range router in whatever compartment they are in, and that will connect to the ship's network. When in port, one of the things included in the parking bay rental is a connection for the ship into the port network, and from there into the planetary network. While walking around town, there are open routers wherever you go (of course you have good encryption on everything to fight eavesdropping). On primitive planets w no local network that is compatible w this system, either someone in the party (or everyone in the party, just to be safe) carries a router with enough range to connect back to the ship, or they have one in their vehicle.

I dunno, maybe some communications engineer will tell me that all of that roaming from router to router would be a worse problem than the bandwidth, but that is how I am seeing it for now.

One thing I allow my version to do is starting about TL 11 - 12 there is no need for a network of towers or satellites. Instead, the Perscomms form their own net sort of like wireless routers do today such that they can talk to each other without the need for other infrastructure.
So, a group with several of these at say TL 13 could talk to each other on low tech planets pretty much just like they could on higher tech level ones.

 

[whartung]

Who do think actually does the work, generates the income and builds those things for the military. If the civilians can not communicate with each other and the government, you will not accomplish anything.

Just because Raytheon and Boeing may need land lines in order to work with the Military doesn't mean the Civilian market at large requires it. The primary reason civilians would need secure line like that is specifically for the working with the Military. Without such an infrastructure you'll find that these organizations build their offices next to the military installations in order to make the problem of digging the ditches for the wires less of a burden.

For other private companies that need it, they'll group up in business centers with infrastructure laid specifically for their use cases, but Ma and Pa Suburbia are likely to not get it or miss it. They'll use the equivalents of VPNs etc. over wireless.

 

[whartung]

Hmmm, you really think that military encryption is unbreakable?

When it has to be, yes. Because we have unbreakable encryption today. It's enough of a PITA to use that the other techniques (which in theory are breakable given absurd resources) are used instead.

Over time, we've seen several encryption standards fall by the wayside because they are no longer secure enough given modern computing hardware. There is much hope in quantum cryptography, for example.

But if two parties want to communicate safely, yes, it's possible, even practical for a small number of parties. It gets burdensome with larger numbers of parties to manage key exchange.

I believe we use it with submarines.

 

[Timerover51]

When it has to be, yes. Because we have unbreakable encryption today. It's enough of a PITA to use that the other techniques (which in theory are breakable given absurd resources) are used instead.

Over time, we've seen several encryption standards fall by the wayside because they are no longer secure enough given modern computing hardware. There is much hope in quantum cryptography, for example.

But if two parties want to communicate safely, yes, it's possible, even practical for a small number of parties. It gets burdensome with larger numbers of parties to manage key exchange.

I believe we use it with submarines.

Two parties, yes, but not using encryption based on scrambling. As for the rest, if a government wants to crack it, it will.

 

[whartung]

Two parties, yes, but not using encryption based on scrambling.

I don't know what this means.

As for the rest, if a government wants to crack it, it will.

No, they won't. There are other, easier, ways to get at information, but decrypting modern cipher text is not one of them. You start running in to time frames such as "heat death of the universe" and energy problems (i.e. the sun doesn't provide enough of it) for doing brute force attacks. And what attacks have been discovered reduce the theoretical complexity, but not the practical complexity (250M billion years instead of 1B billion years).

And these are with smaller (128b) key sizes. Since the complexity grows exponentially with key size, adding a single extra bit to the key doubles the complexity.

And, finally, of course, information theory tells us that encryption with a key length equal to the message size can not be cracked. The one time pad is a perfect cipher, it's biggest obstacle is simply key management (sharing the "pad" among the parties).

But the military is able to do that. So are businesses. So are intelligent agencies.

Almost all of our current encryption limitations are based on usability. Encrypting and decrypt times, this is what keeps the keys sizes down for every day use. As machines get faster, the key sizes get larger.

 

[Timerover51]

I don't know what this means.



No, they won't. There are other, easier, ways to get at information, but decrypting modern cipher text is not one of them. You start running in to time frames such as "heat death of the universe" and energy problems (i.e. the sun doesn't provide enough of it) for doing brute force attacks. And what attacks have been discovered reduce the theoretical complexity, but not the practical complexity (250M billion years instead of 1B billion years).

And these are with smaller (128b) key sizes. Since the complexity grows exponentially with key size, adding a single extra bit to the key doubles the complexity.

And, finally, of course, information theory tells us that encryption with a key length equal to the message size can not be cracked. The one time pad is a perfect cipher, it's biggest obstacle is simply key management (sharing the "pad" among the parties).

But the military is able to do that. So are businesses. So are intelligent agencies.

Almost all of our current encryption limitations are based on usability. Encrypting and decrypt times, this is what keeps the keys sizes down for every day use. As machines get faster, the key sizes get larger.

I have no desire to argue with you.

 

[Icosahedron]

As to communications - how many of y'all have pay phones (or equivalent) in some of your worlds? In the modern west we have mostly seen them disappear with the advent of cellphones. But, watching some old movies, I could see possibilities as to how they might still be useful in a hi-tech environment. Thoughts?

I have computer kiosks. There was a time-travel Stallone film that had something similar. My idea pre-dated the film, but it was good to see a like mind.
What 'possibilities' do you see?

Very well put, IMHO. I would put a couple of caveats in there. IMTU, which is actually my clearest read of the OTU, the Imperial necessarily reaches out to the extraterritoriality line (the EL), and no farther.

Also, there is something like an internet, IMTU, but it is of course fed only by the speed of jump.

In sum, then, there are Imperial standards, which reign systemwide, and out to the EL's, but the cultural and legal climates of the member worlds reign outside the EL's, and tend to have influence on the cultural practices inside the EL's.

Thanks.
I tend to play down the EL IMTU. Occasionally it forms the equivalent of an international border, if the world government is 'extreme', but for the most part the member worlds of the Imperium are harmonised. It's more like the border between England and Scotland (or now perhaps the borders within the EU). Yes, there may be slightly different laws in force, but much of the legal framework and government systems are the same. You wouldn't usually expect your phone or computer to stop working when you cross the line.

Yes, my public net is empire wide, but obviously information transfer is limited by jump speed.

Without such an infrastructure you'll find that these organizations build their offices next to the military installations in order to make the problem of digging the ditches for the wires less of a burden.

For other private companies that need it, they'll group up in business centers with infrastructure laid specifically for their use cases, but Ma and Pa Suburbia are likely to not get it or miss it. They'll use the equivalents of VPNs etc. over wireless.

My thought is that future tech may make communication infrastructure less of a problem. They may have cable-dragging mechanical worms that burrow cables into position rather than digging ditches, or, perish the thought, the utility companies might actually get their heads together and run the comms cables alongside the electricity or water conduits. For that matter, you could perhaps make your water pipes out of optic fibre...

It always amuses me how the gas company will dig a hole in the road, and then two weeks later the water company will dig up the same stretch of road, and then a week later the electricity company... Why don't they pick up the phone and share their maintenance schedules?
In the Far Future, perhaps they will.

 

[Scarecrow]

A universal translator might not be out of the question in the future too.
Something of the sort could be kludged together using current technology, so with vastly improved voice recognition and language translation software, it should be possible, probably in the not too distant future to manage basic communication at least, by speaking into your phone and having the phone then speak to the recipient and then the recipient speak back etc. This could work over the phone as well as being in the same room.

Crow

 

[McPerth]

I have a memory or reading an article about African countries that have a mobile phone telecom network but no landline system.

It was cheaper and easier to install microwave towers for the wireless network than it would have been to lay all the cabling...

I'll try and find a link to the story.

I think I also read something about that, but anothre factor to take ino account here is the terrain you must pass your wires through.

AFAIK it's quite easy to mount a land wire web across a desert, quite more dissicult across a jungle (both, physically and politicaly, if eco groups are active in the zone).

As far as seccurity is concerned, please allow me a question (as I have not much idea about communications): would thight beam be an alternative, for linking nodes at least (that is, as an example, a city with another city, while intraciy comms go by wire)?

 

[whartung]

I have no desire to argue with you.

I didn't know we were arguing. I was hoping to learn something. Apparently, my view of the cryptography world is different, so I'd like to know what I'm missing.

 

[Kiska66]

You tend to find it's more cost effective for (emerging economies) Governments & Mobile/Cell Operators to skip the landline stage and go direct to CDMA/GSM/3G... not only in African nations but you see it happening more and more in India, South East Asia, Middle-east, and (I think Central America about 10 yrs ago).

For a Traveller campaign idea on mid-tech worlds, I've always loved the concept of an airship telecommunications platform. This is something that pops up in the media/interwebs over the last decade, especially concerning one in the Phillipines by one of their major telco/network operators. The concept is that the airship remains in place over Subic Bay providing broadband, cellphone, and wireless connectivity across the nation, or linked to a chain of other airships with minimal need for ground-based infrastructure. Pro = Price and footprint, Cons = vulnerability to hostile, balkanised neighbours or Player Characters up to mischief.

Similar to what others may have mentioned above in this post...In my universe, the devices (Comlinks & Portacoms) tend to be a small handheld device linked to glasses, smart clothing, earbuds, with on-device + holographic displays and virtual keyboards, plus a few other tweaks here and there depending on the domain/tech level. Other domains may use the implant device from one of the JTAS issues. All these can link in automatically or by user choice to the local planetary network or system network at a cost... and typically for non-residents to a world the 'roaming/user' charge is double the local citizen charge.

 

[Lycanorukke]

As far as seccurity is concerned, please allow me a question (as I have not much idea about communications): would thight beam be an alternative, for linking nodes at least (that is, as an example, a city with another city, while intraciy comms go by wire)?

Beams (wether microwave/laser/radio) can be intercepted fairly easily - either directly or by detecting side leakage/scattering - you are sending a signal through an open system (on the 'air') as opposed to closed (fibre). The only one in the Trav universe which is interception proof is the meson comm.

The big one for intercity comms though is bandwidth - how much data is flying back and forth between them? If every user has a "15th Gen holographic phone with Gigabit connection" then you'll run out of useful spectrum fairly fast. Even today with 3G/4G, if too many users are in the local area, speeds slow to a crawl. Now combine all those and try to transmit them to the next city over....

 

[Kiska66]

The big one for intercity comms though is bandwidth - how much data is flying back and forth between them? If every user has a "15th Gen holographic phone with Gigabit connection" then you'll run out of useful spectrum fairly fast. Even today with 3G/4G, if too many users are in the local area, speeds slow to a crawl. Now combine all those and try to transmit them to the next city over....

So my Terabit hogging 'h-Phone 15' will kill a national telco grid when I get off my ship and start using it?
Possible solution for a mid-tech world 'might' be next-gen evolution of femtocells and pico-cells, or personal-cells to ease the localised congestion, although you still have backhaul traffic issues(?). Time for a fleet of cheap airship base stations?


Also, getting back to one of Scarecrow's original questions about what the devices/tech may be like... do a google of Vuforia (Augmented Reality) & Skifta (love the idea and potential future applications of it) for some brainstorming ideas that might take them further in your universe/campaign.

 

[Timerover51]

So my Terabit hogging 'h-Phone 15' will kill a national telco grid when I get off my ship and start using it?
Possible solution for a mid-tech world 'might' be next-gen evolution of femtocells and pico-cells, or personal-cells to ease the localised congestion, although you still have backhaul traffic issues(?). Time for a fleet of cheap airship base stations?

Perhaps you would like to translate some of this Techno-gibberish for the unenlightened members of the forum?

 

[selunatic2397]

Ditto for me...what did you say?

 

[Lycanorukke]

Perhaps you would like to translate some of this Techno-gibberish for the unenlightened members of the forum?

The various mid-hi tech traveller comms systems with all the bells and whistles (real time video/holo display, Gigabyte downloads, VR, etc) would consume a huge amount of bandwidth. If we tried such a thing on todays mobile networks, the odds are it would slow down to unusable speeds, or just fall over. Add more people and it gets even worse very fast.

Femto/pico cells are a form of 'mini cellular' network. Instead of one large cellular base station serving an entire suburb of telephones, you have a lot of little ones serving in small locations (eg: a single building, a block, etc). The idea behind it is that by having a lot of very small cells, you reduce wireless congestion and maintain acceptable speeds because there is a much smaller number of users on each cell as opposed to one large one. They are in use today in congested areas (railway stations) or places where the signal strength is poor from the tower.

The blimps are interesting in that they could be used as 'mobile' towers/repeaters. If there is a sudden surge in network usage, you drive a blimp over to the area concerned to provide more cell capacity and reduce local slowdown.

 

[whartung]

The various mid-hi tech traveller comms systems with all the bells and whistles (real time video/holo display, Gigabyte downloads, VR, etc) would consume a huge amount of bandwidth. If we tried such a thing on todays mobile networks, the odds are it would slow down to unusable speeds, or just fall over. Add more people and it gets even worse very fast.

Well, no, that's not quite true. The bandwidth consumed is the bandwidth provided, regardless of how fast it can be consumed. Just ask anyone with a 4G phone in a 3G or Edge area, or anyone who gets throttled.

Femto/pico cells are a form of 'mini cellular' network. Instead of one large cellular base station serving an entire suburb of telephones, you have a lot of little ones serving in small locations (eg: a single building, a block, etc). The idea behind it is that by having a lot of very small cells, you reduce wireless congestion and maintain acceptable speeds because there is a much smaller number of users on each cell as opposed to one large one. They are in use today in congested areas (railway stations) or places where the signal strength is poor from the tower.

You can get personal ones today also, for those who live in areas with crummy service. They plug in to the internet and basically provide cell service to your house.

The blimps are interesting in that they could be used as 'mobile' towers/repeaters. If there is a sudden surge in network usage, you drive a blimp over to the area concerned to provide more cell capacity and reduce local slowdown.

The only thing not mentioned about the remote wireless systems is power. I don't know how much they need, I don't know if a small solar array and battery is enough, particularly if they're using a microwave transmitter to link up with other towers. There's always diesel or some other kind of on site generation. They could also be wired -- it's one thing to wire a few towers, and quite another to get that out to the villages and houses.