Modern military response times

[Gallowglacht]

Perfect. So, nearly an hour after the order is given, I can expect the fighters to engage, unless the players can come up with something to prevent this.
That works, thanks.

Oh and yes, the ship can outrun IRL missiles like AIM120 and R77/AA12 Adder that are rated at Mach 4+ (not Mach 3+) since Mach 1 = 1225km/h so the ship has some 400km/h on them in a stern chase. IIRC the TNE systems tends to make missiles a tad slower so unless your planes get a side or headshot the ship should outrun them.

Hovering is another problem. Not sure wether a TNE craft can do a sudden stop in athmosphere/play Harrier or has to use aerodynamic drag to slow down. Unlike older system "Thruster plate" ships they can't use their Heplars for braking during athmospheric flight. Simply hoovering could be deadly also if the missile can accept mid-course updates so I see a landig Vixtrix (that has wings and some Air to Air plasma guns) act more like a Harrier once it must slow down and like a Firefox (Movie version) before.

Sorry, missed this earlier.
I use the New Era setting but use heavily houseruled T20 rules. So the ship uses Thrust Plates. This particular Victrix doesn't have the anti-personelle laser or the plasma guns, "just" the 4 laser armed turrets.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

I'd say more like an hour before the first planes get armed and airborne, with others following over the next half-hour. It's gonna be pretty chaotic.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Is there much difference between ground based and carrier aircraft response times?

 

[Vargas]

Realistically I've got to question just how much of a navy the planet wants to maintain. Sure it's a waterworld, but aircraft carriers are costly to run and maintain. For a world where there hasn't been any conflict in decades, I think it's more likely that most, if not all, aircraft will be assigned to land bases near the capital and/or major population centers. Without anyone to oppose, there's not much need for power projection. Add to this the possibility that the military forces of the world are likely used to training to a standard that they think they need, rather than modelling an actual foe, they could be in for a nasty surprise when the ball drops.

Now, having said this, a game doesn't need to bear any relation to what's realistic; they can be just as prepared as you want them to be to support your game play.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Makes sense. Ditto for a lack of hunter/killer type subs. But I like the idea of AA subs, maybe even "scorched earth" anti-offworld/anti-virus nuke armed subs.

 

[Ishmael]

Is there much difference between ground based and carrier aircraft response times?

On the carrier I was on, we had 'alert 5' fighters on the catapult ready to launch and be on an intercept within 5 minutes of the order being given.

 

[Spiderfish]

If they have any kind of stand by potential and a reasonable satellite network they could have cruise missile heading in your direction in anywhere between 5 minutes to an hour.

Going by my knowledge of both older and current British doctrine Special Forces can be on the ground in hours but a real honest-to goodness mobilisation can take a couple of weeks (most of which seems to be spent getting on and off buses that don't actually go anywhere ).

On the bus! Off the bus! Hurry up and wait!

From the invasion of the Falkland Islands to the retaking of Port Stanley, tech 6 to 7 forces, nearly 4000 miles in 72 days. Then again the liberation of South Georgia only took 3 weeks, same conflict, same distances, different force levels.

The CRW wing of the SAS used to claim they could be anywhere in the UK and putting in a quick action (ie unplanned, unsupported within two hours). I tend to doubt the veracity of that but it does mean that you could probably have a company sized special forces unit on scene within 12 hours quite easily.

You have to wonder how quickly we (all of HM Forces not just the Hereford Rifles) could respond if it was 1100 hours on a Friday Night? I am proud to annonce that in event of an attack on the Two Trees the Corps would be able to respond in a matter of seconds.

 

[DonaldH]

This might not help any but the TAC base I was assigned to in the mid 80's always had two F-15C's on ready alert from alarm to launch in 5 minutes and two more on the ramp ready to be up loaded in 15 minutes..its always funny to see a pilot running to his plane with one leg in the flight suit holding his helmet in his teeth.:rofl:
The security unit I was with had 4 guys with M-16s, 120 rds, at the alert site A Security reaction team(2 person) with 16 & 16/M203 combo, gas, flares, & HEAP rounds and then a 4 person fire team with two 16's, one 16/203, and one M-60 with 1200 rds. All with personal radio's Flak vest, helmet and night vision. And because there was never enough of us to what the bad guys might bring to the party we were QM&S as :devil:. and we could end up in some of the damnest places.:smirk:

 

[Gallowglacht]

Actually the "best case scenario's" will help, not for this world, but later in the campaign. I want the planets to each have a different "feel". If they try this type of thing on Solee or Kide the local forces will respond a lot more quickly and cohesively. I also plan for Guild mercenaries to be more professional and competant than most "natives". (in fact a Guild SAM site on Fishers World has already scared the bejesus out of the players)

 

[Icosahedron]

Hmm, not wishing to play devil's advocate here, but...
You've asked for ideas from the military-minded and you've got the (expected?) sledgehammer and nut scenario.

I'm not military, and my thinking is that realistically, you have a single ship that may remain parked in orbit around a planet that has occasional visitors - nothing unusual there. If the air-raft is enclosed it can act as an orbital shuttle, so half a dozen wayfarers coming down in a raft for a bit of R&R shouldn't get the four minute warning going.

I would imagine that if the players keep their heads there shouldn't be any dust kicked up until they reach the detention centre and their real purpose becomes obvious. By that time, all they have to do is leave the building, reach their air raft and leave the atmosphere.

How much of a military response is going to be launched against six guys in an air raft, anyway?

If the prisoners are of major importance, the prisoner escort could be huge - a brig in the middle of a military base, for example. If they are less important, they may be guarded only by the local police, and a full scale military response would be highly unlikely.

Either way, my thinking is that the players will only have to deal with the security detail attached to the prisoners. If they're important, they'll be guarded by an army, if they're not important an army isn't going to be mobilised to bring them back.

 

[Gallowglacht]

The sledgehammer and nut scenario is for IF the players go in all lasers blazing. If they sneak the response times start from when a trooper in the detention centre can raise the alarm. They may spark a response anyway as this part of the planet is restricted to offworlders, but that response would be by police initialy not military.

The military response times are for when Bozzie (trigger happy player) can't resist blowing up something big any longer...

Devils advocates/other views welcome, the game isn't for another week, so things are still mutable...

 

[deniable]

You may also want to assess the political will of the government in question. It may not be bothered to deal with the rescue attempt, especially if it's not violent. "What, some people got in and took the prisoners, oh dear." Then again, someone could see it as a smear on their pride and take serious action.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Done, actually. The government won't be able to decide anything in time. They are split on what to do. Overall they are trying to resist integration into the Soleean Empire. The Guild have not provided as much support as was hoped, and the Coalition will not respond well to the fact that their people were seized. (But at least they are still alive, perhaps the Coalition will forgive them?)
They won't be able to decide weither to try and prevent the attempt, to hide what they have done, or to let it happen so as not to make the situation worse. Especially not in the time it takes for the raid.
Without leadership from above, any response will be decided by whatever military officer steps up to make a decision. No matter what he does, I expect the government will hang him/her out to dry.

 

[deniable]

So, there's a chance that your players will go in loaded for bear and find a welcoming committee trying to hand them the prisoners. Sound like a good way to play with their heads.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Unless they go all shock and awe and start killing guards, yeah theres a chance. Especially if the Soleeans show all guns blazing. In that case the Coalition are the lesser of 2 evils(3 if you count the guild).

Right now I'm still brainstorming. Normally I then narrow down the 3 most likely things the players will do and detail from there.

 

[Badbru]

From what I remember of Clallum however is that they have a good relationship with the Guild, from which, unless otherwise in your TNE universe they have learnt of the Coallitions existence, and, ofcourse the captured ship crew which they sold (the ship) to the Guild. They will not have a good opinion of the coallition based on the source of their info, and they will not want those coallition personel ever returning to the RC.

In addition they have a large military force, granted it hasn't dealt with wars or offworld intrusions, but there is an insurgency they are keeping a lid on.

Clallum actually has a few SDB's too doesn't it, unless not IY-TNE-TU.
It's a fair assumption that the ship will be detected in orbit, if only by the Guild advisors who would pass that information on. The Government will have time to send a flight of interceptors to "Guide the visiting ship" to the starport if they so choose.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Their ship has already visited, operating as free traders. They were escorted in by fighter jets and pinged by the converted merchant sdb in orbit. Clallum tried getting a spy on board, were thwarted by the PC's, who managed to pick up their Dawn League spy. They know one sdb is on training somewhere in the system, another is getting maintenance at the port, leaving just the Morraine in orbit.
At the end of the last adventure the players had just taken off. At that time they were thinking of plans to distract that last sdb.

They do have a large force, but they are unlikely to be able to bring much to bear in the time it takes to launch a SAG.
And finally although the Guild have given plenty of propaganda, they have not backed that up with enough hardware to keep off the Solee. They also have a League crew to question, so are not as susceptible to guild propaganda as most wild worlds. With the Solee pushing, the Coalition are seen by some as the lesser of 2 evils. While it will be too late to give the crew back, they might not be willing to destroy the players’ ship. Also they might not risk their sdb when they may need it against Solee.

(IMTU Solee is a capable, major threat and no way are the RC going to trust sandman as quickly. The Virus Fleet arc went of quicker in my TU so a large part of the RCN is deployed around Promise.)