Mommy, where does the Hydrogen go when we Jump?
- Thread starter Smeelbo
- Start date
Irrational
SOC-3
I always liked Steve Jackson's theory. He posited demons in Jumpspace who really loved Hydrogen. Give 'em enough, and they'd take you where you wanted to go.
Most of the time.
Most of the time.
JustinInOz
SOC-12
Maybe they get deposited in jump space?
I do not think that it is written anywhere, but what is to say that they are not exhausted as helium?
Maybe both, spat out as helium in jumpspace.
I do not think that it is written anywhere, but what is to say that they are not exhausted as helium?
Maybe both, spat out as helium in jumpspace.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Depends on how you view Jump.
One view is that the fused Helium and some (often large) fraction of the "jump fuel" get vented to provide cooling for what is an incredibly hot reactor, and that this vented gas "inflates" the jump bubble to some extent.
One view is that the fused Helium and some (often large) fraction of the "jump fuel" get vented to provide cooling for what is an incredibly hot reactor, and that this vented gas "inflates" the jump bubble to some extent.
So, when a ship has landed at the downport but keeps its power plant running, everyone in the immediate vicinity has a high squeeky voice?
Regards PLST
Well, the helium is likely vented in a superhot state to cool the reactor, and remember that at best a fusion reactor would only convert .7% of the mass to energy, so 99.3% gets converted to helium.
Also, it's been said that some is vented into the jump bubble to form a protective layer around the ship and prevent direct contact with jump space.
Also, it's been said that some is vented into the jump bubble to form a protective layer around the ship and prevent direct contact with jump space.
Some people quit listening to SJ a long time ago...
"I'll take Marc Miller et al weren't nuclear physicists for $200, Alex".
:rofl:
What's this? The Role-playing game of Hardly Science?
:devil:
in real world example, your talking about the same effect found on all modern electric welders (arc, mig, tig) where the vaporized flux material (or inert gas) forms a cloud (or bubble) around the work to keep oxygen and contaminates out of the weld...
that I can relate too (since I'm not a nuclear fuzzi-sist ) and extrapolate how the same idea could work around a ship....an inert bubble (helium) around the high energy discharge (PP/JD) to displace a contaminate (j-space) and when the high energy dissapates, the ship drops back into n-space with a grand cenimatic effect..all that helium would be charged like a neon sign (I think helium produces red? light) and be brought back into n-space as an intense flare and expanding/fading cloud and if a ship retains the vector it had on entering j-space then the energized cloud might be pulled allong with the ship as it moves in n-spce...a red shooting star for a moment (or what ever color helium)
like I said: grand cinematic effect...but stealthy? not
that I can relate too (since I'm not a nuclear fuzzi-sist
) and extrapolate how the same idea could work around a ship....an inert bubble (helium) around the high energy discharge (PP/JD) to displace a contaminate (j-space) and when the high energy dissapates, the ship drops back into n-space with a grand cenimatic effect..all that helium would be charged like a neon sign (I think helium produces red? light) and be brought back into n-space as an intense flare and expanding/fading cloud and if a ship retains the vector it had on entering j-space then the energized cloud might be pulled allong with the ship as it moves in n-spce...a red shooting star for a moment (or what ever color helium)like I said: grand cinematic effect...but stealthy? not
Gallowglacht
SOC-12
The Hydrogen is used to create the pocket universe that contains your ship, protecting it from actual Jumpspace. The pocket universe travels through Jumpspace and your ship just hiches a lift while maintaining the universe.
Or to put it another way. I dunno....
Or to put it another way. I dunno....
Jump drives require abso-freaking-lutely huge quantities of energy (by Imperial standards that is) to rip a hole into jumpspace. So, your starship powerplant is specially designed to go into hyper-production mode for just enough time to charge up the jump drive. It is in this mode that fuel is consumed so rapidly and (relatively) wastefully.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
The same place socks go when they get lost in the dryer, dear. Now eat your brussel sprouts.
Actually starships work just like dirigibles. Here's proof: http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff300/fv00263.htm
If you need more convincing, check out the strip preceding it.
If you need more convincing, check out the strip preceding it.
right,if (and for ease of play)a power plant momentarily overcharges the Hydrogen to operate the j-drive, and the enegrgized helium mass (to account for mass loss) forms a high energy medium the ship is suspended in to isolate it from direct contact with j-space...then NO CHARACTER EVA's (they'd be incinerated), looking out a porthole would only see the plasma of the isolation field, entering/leaving j-space is very detectable (sensor/visually for grand cinematic effect), no comm for a few moments just before entering/leaving j-space do to interference...am I forgetting something?
neat
and maybe the real reason ships are limited to jump 6 is that higher numbers would require the release of so much energised helium that it'd melt to ship
Gallowglacht
SOC-12
Your sensors detect endless copies of your own ship, from all directions, as the range of your sensors is far larger than the universe. In fact looking out a porthole you might just be able to make out the sight of your own ship, through the plasma. And as the universe is so small there is a limit to how much energy your ship should put out.
But yeah, thats pretty much how I run Jumpspace.
J-space limitations on the players.
Funny, except for the view only being a random background of noise in the weird "space" of jump space, you see the random patterns in the plasma surrounding you.
Most games do not allow EVA during jump, comms are worthless immediately before and after. Sensor s and scanners in j-space give completely meaningless data.
Entering and leaving J-space produces a flash detectable across the entire system.
Add that even the empty shell of l-hyd drop tanks within the 100d limit of the ship is enough for the plasma field to collapse in a destructive manor, either destroying the ship outright or sending it forever irretrievably into J-space.
Lets add that on returning to normal space there is a glowing cloud of plasma surrounding the ship that expands and cools surrounding the center of mass along the vector the ship was on when it reentered normal space.
Maybe there is no J-space at all, and the release of such an intense plasma field rips normal space apart and tunnels you through to your destination, with a half life of 168 hours give or take before it is cool enough for normal space to reabsorb it. Lets go a bit further. The j-drive and the fusion plant do not use the Hydrogen AT ALL. There is no giant super-heated fusion reaction with in the ship at all.
The hydrogen is expelled in a controlled pattern around the ship, and when it is ignited, the lanthanum grid canalizes the plasma, magnifying the temperature to some insane temperature that nature can only archive only in the very core of black holes.
Stutter warp, and early less efficient J-drives that did not use a lanthanum grid, either doped the plasma with lanthanum, or an other impurity, so the plasma only reached a few kazillion degrees, instead of the super- hydra- quinzion degrees the grid achieves.
Suddenly, the hand wave of J-drive reduces to we are simply able to recreate the conditions at the center of a black hole around the ship, with out destroying it in the process.
No super high temperatures and unobtainium vessels to contain it, sudden conversion from a normal fusion reaction to this sudden flash of energy. The drive itself is just the mechanism to release and control the hydrogen and ignite it. The only handwave left is that the lanthanum helps recreate the natural force with in black holes that our science already can observe, but not understand. (an insignificant handwave, to me at least.
Since there are already theories that artificially generating and controlling Gravity might be a possibility, Fusion is already a reality although getting a usefull amount of energy from the reaction has not happened yet, all three of the "big" handwaves that people must swallow to accept the Traveller universe are not handwaves at all, but projections from what we already know, the same as Laser guns, plasma guns, highly efficient maneuver drives,and the other extrapolation from curent tech that no player or GM has ever lost sleep over.
Truthfully, the system works with vanishingly small amounts of hadwavium, and no unobtainium at all. I have to look at my periodic table but I believe lanthanum is a real element who's properties we already know.
Funny, except for the view only being a random background of noise in the weird "space" of jump space, you see the random patterns in the plasma surrounding you.
Most games do not allow EVA during jump, comms are worthless immediately before and after. Sensor s and scanners in j-space give completely meaningless data.
Entering and leaving J-space produces a flash detectable across the entire system.
Add that even the empty shell of l-hyd drop tanks within the 100d limit of the ship is enough for the plasma field to collapse in a destructive manor, either destroying the ship outright or sending it forever irretrievably into J-space.
Lets add that on returning to normal space there is a glowing cloud of plasma surrounding the ship that expands and cools surrounding the center of mass along the vector the ship was on when it reentered normal space.
Maybe there is no J-space at all, and the release of such an intense plasma field rips normal space apart and tunnels you through to your destination, with a half life of 168 hours give or take before it is cool enough for normal space to reabsorb it. Lets go a bit further. The j-drive and the fusion plant do not use the Hydrogen AT ALL. There is no giant super-heated fusion reaction with in the ship at all.
The hydrogen is expelled in a controlled pattern around the ship, and when it is ignited, the lanthanum grid canalizes the plasma, magnifying the temperature to some insane temperature that nature can only archive only in the very core of black holes.
Stutter warp, and early less efficient J-drives that did not use a lanthanum grid, either doped the plasma with lanthanum, or an other impurity, so the plasma only reached a few kazillion degrees, instead of the super- hydra- quinzion degrees the grid achieves.
Suddenly, the hand wave of J-drive reduces to we are simply able to recreate the conditions at the center of a black hole around the ship, with out destroying it in the process.
No super high temperatures and unobtainium vessels to contain it, sudden conversion from a normal fusion reaction to this sudden flash of energy. The drive itself is just the mechanism to release and control the hydrogen and ignite it. The only handwave left is that the lanthanum helps recreate the natural force with in black holes that our science already can observe, but not understand. (an insignificant handwave, to me at least.
Since there are already theories that artificially generating and controlling Gravity might be a possibility, Fusion is already a reality although getting a usefull amount of energy from the reaction has not happened yet, all three of the "big" handwaves that people must swallow to accept the Traveller universe are not handwaves at all, but projections from what we already know, the same as Laser guns, plasma guns, highly efficient maneuver drives,and the other extrapolation from curent tech that no player or GM has ever lost sleep over.
Truthfully, the system works with vanishingly small amounts of hadwavium, and no unobtainium at all. I have to look at my periodic table but I believe lanthanum is a real element who's properties we already know.
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