More Than Just A Furry Suit

[Ran Targas]

Hmmm, I wonder what a Vargr Corsair (the ship, not the dog) must smell like? Does the captain spend all day marking the ship? Does a new captain spend his time trying to sniff out the marks left by his predecessor?

These are important questions! I gotta know!

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

More Vargr cultural questions:

How is Charisma transferred from superior to inferior? Would a Vargr who has mated with a high Charisma Vargr gain the benefit of their Charisma from the mating? Does the audacity of challenging a Vargr of higher Charisma make the challenger look better, even if they loose?

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Well, I'm not sure the mating would bring a lot of Charisma, unless that was what you were striving for as a core competency...

(Don't go there.)

Gaining Charisma from a challenge would only happen if the challenger showed himself better than everyone had previously thought. Or, the higher standing Vargr did significantly worse than expected and squeaked it out in the end. Of course, in the wrong environment, the challenger had better be watching his back after that....

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by Fritz88:

Gaining Charisma from a challenge would only happen if the challenger showed himself better than everyone had previously thought. Or, the higher standing Vargr did significantly worse than expected and squeaked it out in the end. Of course, in the wrong environment, the challenger had better be watching his back after that....

I'm thinking that as long as the challenge did not fail miserably for the challenger, that it could improve the challenger's position - if by making the challenger a center of attention if nothing else.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

This is one of those things I don't think could be stated with certainty - it would be entirely situation dependent. After all, being the center of attention is not always a good thing!

 

[Liam Devlin]

Jeff--interesting question--I had this come up with a Vargr player of ours in our Ursula campaign. His Vargr corsair rival back in Gvurrdon had mated with his mate while he'd been in prison serving in the Imperial Navy's penal unit.

When reunited with his lost love [a femme vargr], the player was not surprised by his rival's move to try and achieve greatness by mating his lover, and siring a son from her. She explained his rival failed in his quest to achieve prestige, as their daughter [the player's and NPC's] from prior to his entering IMp. Navy and before he wound up in penal unit, their daughter's dowry and his name attached to hers was part and parcel of the daughter mating/marrying the son of his rival--thus the prestige stealing plot was undone..by love of all things, and his name/ scion heiress and their pups would eventually subsume the rival pack.

this was my take on this MTU solution only.
YMMV as always!

Game on!

 

[Sifu Blackirish]

Fascinating discussion and brilliant comments by all. My complements!

I never did play a Vargr Pc, although I do have a vargr-like race IMTU called the Ainuu. they rose up and destroyed their human slavemasters, and now they are xenophobic towards all humans.

I hope I am alive when we make contact with real aliens. Perhaps then, we will really understand what it means to be human.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
How is Charisma transferred from superior to inferior?

Jeff,

In many cases I'd say it is explicitly transferred. The high charisma Vargr makes it known via his actions and words that he holds the low charisma Vargr in greater esteem than the pack does. This allows the high charisma Vargr to safely co-opt ideas while also 'short circuiting' a potential rival as part of the low charisma Vargr's new status depends on the high charisma Vargr. It's the old patron/client game.

Of course, high charisma Vargr must be both very sparing with their praise and very wise in choosing when to do so. Suddenly announcing to your social circle that Schleppewolf, the lowliest Vargr of all, should be held in greater esteem could be deadly to your own charisma. Additionally, a bungled action by one of your newly promoted clients will reflect badly on your charisma.

What society as a whole thinks is most important, only an unwise leader would promote unsuitable clients. It all depends on just how far the high charisma Vargr can 'push' things until his charisma takes a hit. A Vargr wants to bend social mores, not break them.

Would a Vargr who has mated with a high Charisma Vargr gain the benefit of their Charisma from the mating?

I'd say yes. It works like the patron/client model I wrote above. The low charisma Vargr may gain a boost, but the high charisma Vargr may loose points in societies eye's.

Besides, I don't see our medieval notion of 'romantic', 'courtly' or 'unrequited' love working in Vargr society. No Vargr will pursue another beyond their station in society purely out of love. The pursuit may be part of a campaign to enhance their own charisma, but we won't see the Princess marrying the woodcutter and going off to live in his cottage. They're aren't human after all.

Does the audacity of challenging a Vargr of higher Charisma make the challenger look better, even if they loose?

It depends on the fight and what triggered it. Pick a fight and win it for reasons society feels are worthless and you haven't gained anything. Society is the final judge in all of this and that makes the GM's job harder. What worked in one place and at one time may not do so here and now because society's perception is different.

Simply beating up a high charisma Vargr who has been bullyiing you doesn't gain you points in this sytem. The way the Vargr look at it, the high charisma Vargr is supposed to bully you! The DGP and MT materials suggest that low charisma Vargr normally endure a lot of grief from their higher charisma fellows. DGP even gave examples about dominance through language usage! High charisma Vargr purposely speak slowly taunting low charisma Vargr to interrupt, high charisma Vargr use words and grammar forms exclusive to their station, and high charisma Vargr will deliberately interrupt low charisma Vargr in order to correct their speach. Bullying and the pecking order are the way their societies work.

So, thumping that high charisma Vargr may not change a thing. He may be able to 'spin' the story of the fight to his advantage; "I slipped", "He sucker punched me", etc. If he can 'spin' it enough, he may gain charisma while you lose it. Of course, any high charisma Vargr who is routinely beaten by those who are beneath him won't have a high charisma for long, but they still may be able to 'spin' or 're-tell' a loss here and there.

Naturally, this is all IMTU. YMM and should V.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

I'm getting hooked on Vargr, if you'all can't tell.

Since Vargr would be unwilling to mate too far below their charisma, would two high charisma Vargr mate just so they could pool their resources of charisma?

(I'm asking because the charisma effect on Vargr society may require daily politicking of a sort that would make the most backstabbing Imperial nobility pale in comparison!)(I also think that we can extrapolate an actual culture about Vargr since they are uplifted Terran canine stock.)

Hmmm, since Vargr are uplifted canines, are they susceptable to the same specific diseases as Terran canines (like parvo virus)?

 

[alanb]

Originally posted by Jeff M. Hopper:
(I also think that we can extrapolate an actual culture about Vargr since they are uplifted Terran canine stock.)

That's like extrapolating a human culture from apes.

The canonical descriptions of the Vargr emphasise their diversity.

Yes, you can "extrapolate an actual culture" all you like, and it will doubtless correctly describe how some Vargr operate, but it will be entirely wrong for others, and probably the majority.

In other words, you aren't doing anything actually wrong as far as your own game is concerned, but you are IMHO overgeneralising in your understanding of this fully sentient species.

The Vargr behave "like this" and "like that" and "every other conceivable way" as well. _That's_ their "actual culture".

Incidentally, that makes them easier to play - nobody is ever wrong.

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

Originally posted by alanb:

That's like extrapolating a human culture from apes.

Very true, what I am aiming for is a "stereotypical" Vargr culture with the understanding that in every sterotype there is a kernal of truth. (I should have been more clear, my bad - I blame lack of sleep.)