• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

Navy Gauss pistols -ceremonial?

The Navy gauss pistol is described as issued to navy officers and is described as longer barreled and thus more unwieldy than the Army or Marine versions.

Is the gauss pistol supposed to be a ceremonial weapon versus one that is used in combat?

Most other hand weapons in the Navy on-board armory (excluding the Marines) are snub weapons. It seems that just for ammunition compatability and less collateral damage, navy officers would want to be using a snub pistol instead. In addition to its alleged unwieldiness, it would less suitable for shipboard combat at close range.
 
The Navy gauss pistol is described as issued to navy officers and is described as longer barreled and thus more unwieldy than the Army or Marine versions.

Is the gauss pistol supposed to be a ceremonial weapon versus one that is used in combat?

Most other hand weapons in the Navy on-board armory (excluding the Marines) are snub weapons. It seems that just for ammunition compatability and less collateral damage, navy officers would want to be using a snub pistol instead. In addition to its alleged unwieldiness, it would less suitable for shipboard combat at close range.
I expect it’s a nod towards the Colt Army and Colt Navy revolvers….



Historically the Army revolver was bigger in length and caliber from the Navy version.
 
CT Striker Book 3, p31 and p33:
TLWeaponShotsEffectiveLongExtremeWeightPriceTargetsDex Mods
9Laser pistol509 (4)18 (2)90 (0)3000/10002000/40018(-3) 11 ( +1)
13Laser pistol20010 (6)20 (3)100 (1)2200/10003000/70016(-2) 11 ( +1)
134mm gauss pistol152 (4)4 (3)6 (1)650/200600/2017 (-2) 10 (+1 )
Shots: Number of shots before power pack is exhausted.
Effective, Long, Extreme: Range in cm (penetration) at the three ranges.
Weight: Weight of weapon/powerpack in grams.
Price: Price of weapon/powerpack in Cr.
Signature DMs: Lasers +0

In a (space) navy context, you want pistols on board ships so as to be "handy" in close quarters. Likewise, you don't want excessive amounts of overpenetration happing that can pierce compartment walls, incurring additional damage beyond what you're shooting at.

The primary advantage that a TL=13 gauss pistol has over a TL=13 laser pistol simply comes down to a matter of weight and price.
  • 1x TL=13 Laser Pistol = 200 shots, 3.2kg (weapon+power pack), Cr3700 (weapon+power pack)
  • 1x TL=13 Gauss Pistol = 15 shots, 0.85kg (weapon+1 magazine), Cr620 (weapon+1 magazine)
If you want to "normalize" the number of shots between the two weapon systems, you get this:
  • 1x TL=13 Gauss Pistol + 13x Magazines = 13*15=195 shots, 0.65+13*0.2=3.25kg, 600+13*20=Cr860
So, with "about equal ammo" the gauss pistol option is slightly heavier (by 50 grams) and a LOT cheaper to manufacture and buy.
3700/860 = 4.302325581395349

In other words, you can afford (in budget terms) to equip 4 people with TL=13 gauss pistols and 195 shots each for the same price it costs to equip 1 person with a TL=13 laser pistol and 200 shots.



So essentially, in terms of "bang per buck credit spent" the gauss pistol is the "more efficient" option when it comes to both mass production and being able to "arm everyone" to produce mass fires.

Looked at from a Cr for Cr budget perspective:
1x TL=13 Laser Pistol + 1x Power Pack = Cr3700 = 1 shooter, 200 shots
6x TL=13 Gauss Pistol + 6x Magazine = Cr3720 = 6 shooters, 15 times each = 90 shots

From an ordnance and supply perspective, with respect to shipboard combat ... given a choice between 1 shooter who can shoot 200 times (unlikely) in a boarding scenario, versus equipping 6 shooters who can shoot 15 times each ... when it comes to volume of fire between the two weapon systems. More shooters means better opportunities to mass fire, when necessary.


Then there's the "range overkill" factor.
  • TL=13 Laser Pistol ranges to target (in meters aboard ship) is 100m Effective, 200m Long and 1000mExtreme.
    • In terms of 1.5m deck squares that's 66 Effective, 133 Long, 666 Extreme.
  • TL=13 Gauss Pistol ranges to target (in meters aboard ship) is 20m Effective, 40m Long and 60mExtreme.
    • In terms of 1.5m deck squares that's 13 Effective, 26 Long, 40 Extreme.
Most starships are not going to have linear corridor spaces longer than ~39m (26 deck squares) before being blocked by a partition wall or a bulkhead.

For reference, the Kinunir class has outer hull dimensions of only 73.51m long x 52.5m wide x 15.5m high (fin adds 11m high).

In other words, if fighting OUTSIDE the hull of a 1200 ton starship (as per LBB A1), the only way you would need long range with a TL=13 Laser Pistol would be if you were shooting at something where either the shooter or the target was not in contact with the outer hull of the starship.

This means that for "most" personnel onboard a starship, the long range capacity of a TL=13 Laser Pistol is going to be a "wasteful overkill" factor that costs a lot of weight and Cr per shooter to enable.



So in terms of what makes more sense as a personal sidearm for navy crews (ship's troops are a different question!) ... the TL=13 gauss pistol is adequate to the need and environment, while costing far less than the alternative of a TL=13 laser pistol.

Right tool for the job (and all that jazz).



Besides, any readers of this forum with infantry experience in their past will readily appreciate the weight difference between the 2 weapon systems.
TL=13 Laser Pistol ... weapon + 1 "deep" magazine with 200 shots weighs in at 2.2+1=3.2kg ... which is getting "heavy" for a "pistol" weapon.
TL=13 Gauss Pistol ... weapon + 2 magazines with 15*2=30 shots weighs in at 0.65+0.2*2=1.05kg ... which is reasonable for a sidearm.

Leave the laser pistols (and carbines and rifles) to the marines.
Navy crews get issued guass pistols.

Just the mass/weight and credit savings ALONE, spread across millions of navy personnel on payroll ought to be enough of a reason for a procurement office to issue gauss pistols, rather than laser pistols, to navy personnel as their standard issue self-protection sidearm. It gets the job done at a better price for a weapon that isn't "over spec" for the environment it might need to be used in. :unsure:
 
If your naval officer is using his sidearm I feel that something may have gone a tad wrong. :ROFLMAO:

In regards to the snub vs gauss thing how viable are the snub weapons as an actual shipboard defence weapon (as opposed to a shipboard security weapon).

In Mongoose's Imperial Navy supplement they refer to the snub pistol (with HEAP rounds) as doing 3d-1 with AP and the snub smg as doing the same with auto 3. The same book refers to a TL14 standard issue naval vacc suit with body protector as having +16 protection. This means that (assuming an effect of 0) you need to roll a 16 on 3d6 which is a 4.62% chance to breach the armour on standard shipboard security before you even get to dudes in higher TL combat armour and battledress.

Admittedly the naval gauss pistol (assuming standard ammo) requires 14 on 3d6 (16.20% chance) to breach the standard shipboard security vaccsuit with protector on an effect of 0 which still doesn't seem that high.
 
Ok, I might point out the original writeup of the Gauss pistol was selective fire with a 3 round burst setting.
 
So what do the chances work out for the laser pistol in Mongoose?
16.20% The AP on the gauss pistol makes up for the greater damage of the laser meaning they have the same chance of beating the armour.
Ok, I might point out the original writeup of the Gauss pistol was selective fire with a 3 round burst setting.
Gauss pistol in MgT 2e is Auto 2 but I was assuming a single shot so as to make a fair comparison to snub pistols.

Since the snub SMG has Auto 3 I'll compare the chances between a snub SMG on burst and a gauss pistol on burst:

If you fire the gauss pistol on burst you do an extra 2 damage which does mean you only have to roll 12 or more on 3d6 to breach the armour which is 37.50%.

Snub SMG does damage on a 3d6 roll of 11 or more which is a 50% probability, again using HEAP rounds.
 
Interesting, it seems officers with gauss pistols would outgun regular crew armed with snub pistols, but not snub SMGs. Of snub HEAP or gauss pistol shots, which are going to cause more collateral damage shipboard? Anything that can pierce body armor seems likely to do damage to shipboard systems?

In the Element Cruisers book, it says all officers are to have a sidearm "available for use at need" and keep their personal sidearms in their quarters if not on their person. There is also a mention of "Mutiny guns" hidden and available to senior officers.

This seems to imply that mutiny or shipboard combat is not uncommon or is some other canon tradition the reason.

By the way, the cutlass does even more damage than either pistols at 3D+1.
 
Interesting, it seems officers with gauss pistols would outgun regular crew armed with snub pistols, but not snub SMGs. Of snub HEAP or gauss pistol shots, which are going to cause more collateral damage shipboard? Anything that can pierce body armor seems likely to do damage to shipboard systems?

In the Element Cruisers book, it says all officers are to have a sidearm "available for use at need" and keep their personal sidearms in their quarters if not on their person. There is also a mention of "Mutiny guns" hidden and available to senior officers.

This seems to imply that mutiny or shipboard combat is not uncommon or is some other canon tradition the reason.

By the way, the cutlass does even more damage than either pistols at 3D+1.
Duck's Foot Gun
 
The Navy gauss pistol is described as issued to navy officers and is described as longer barreled and thus more unwieldy than the Army or Marine versions.

Is the gauss pistol supposed to be a ceremonial weapon versus one that is used in combat?

Most other hand weapons in the Navy on-board armory (excluding the Marines) are snub weapons. It seems that just for ammunition compatability and less collateral damage, navy officers would want to be using a snub pistol instead. In addition to its alleged unwieldiness, it would less suitable for shipboard combat at close range.
Where is there this description of Navy gauss pistols being longer/heavier than Army/Marine gauss pistols?

I don't remember any differentiation in CT so it must be from another edition.
 
Where is there this description of Navy gauss pistols being longer/heavier than Army/Marine gauss pistols?

In the Element Class Cruisers book, it describes the Navy Gauss Pistol as such. That plus some other text in the Grand Fleet book also written by MJD said that the pistol was as much a badge of rank as a weapon.

I guess the fear of boarding or the enlisted is heavily ingrained into naval officers. :)

There was a recent real world naval officer who was scared of living in enlisted accomodations calling them hatchet wielding perverts. Guess hhe would be glad to have a gauss pistol. :)

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/navy-disciplines-officer-enlisted-sailors-letter/
 
Last edited:
Interesting, it seems officers with gauss pistols would outgun regular crew armed with snub pistols, but not snub SMGs. Of snub HEAP or gauss pistol shots, which are going to cause more collateral damage shipboard? Anything that can pierce body armor seems likely to do damage to shipboard systems?
Both have similar AP and based on raw the gauss does more damage but I’d probably think the HEAP rounds would likely do more damage to soft targets given that they’re High Explosive Armour Piercing. The shrapnel causing more widespread damage than a sliver of metal.
Where is there this description of Navy gauss pistols being longer/heavier than Army/Marine gauss pistols?

I don't remember any differentiation in CT so it must be from another edition.

Most recent description is from Mongooses Imperial Navy Sourcebook. I’m almost certain I’ve seen it before though cause I’ve had the idea in my head a while but I’m phone posting while at work so won’t be able to track it down.
 
Most recent description is from Mongooses Imperial Navy Sourcebook. I’m almost certain I’ve seen it before though cause I’ve had the idea in my head a while but I’m phone posting while at work so won’t be able to track it down.

It was also in one of MJDs publications during the T20 era (a "Weapons of Charted Space" book, I believe). Gave a picture and stats for both the Army and Navy variants for ~ Year 990.
 
The Luger pistol was accepted by the Imperial German Navy in 1904 in 9mm Parabellum as the Pistole 04 (P04). The navy model had a longer 150 mm (5.9 in) barrel and a two-position – 100 meters (110 yd) or 200 meters (220 yd) – rear sight. This version was also referred to as the "Marine Modell 1904" or, more colloquially in the US as the "navy Luger" The Pistole 04 was later updated with a coil mainspring to Model 1906 pattern as Luger continued to refine and improve his design.
Here's an article about it.
https://www.hlebooks.com/lugerpa/alumarine.HTM
 
The navy model had a longer 150 mm (5.9 in) barrel and a two-position – 100 meters (110 yd) or 200 meters (220 yd) – rear sight. This version was also referred to as the "Marine Modell 1904" or, more colloquially in the US as the "navy Luger"
The navy Luger appears to have been designed as a weapon for U-boat crewmen to snipe ship to ship using a shoulder stock which would justify the longer barrel.

Positing that a navy gauss pistol would need to be longer for a space navy seems a bit misplaced. Shorter is probably more appropriate than longer.
Historically the Army revolver was bigger in length and caliber from the Navy version.
The Civil war era Navy revolver version was lighter for the close quarters combat that the Navy was more likely to engage in with a pistol, which makes more sense.

It would seem that close quarters fighting would be what the navy gauss pistol would be used for, and a longer barrel would be more of hindrance at close quarters.

Figure naval officers would keep that long barreled gauss pistol for parades and ceremonies with nobles and pack Marine model gauss pistols for daily use and when the Joe jump commandoes are a threat to pop in.
 
Last edited:
It was also in one of MJDs publications during the T20 era (a "Weapons of Charted Space" book, I believe). Gave a picture and stats for both the Army and Navy variants for ~ Year 990.
I would love to see this image. Never got into T20 so I do not have any of the books.
 
I would love to see this image. Never got into T20 so I do not have any of the books.

Since these are on the T20 CD they should be legit to post. If not, please have the Moderators feel free to remove them.

Gauss Pistol - (IA-13 & ISM-13 4mm).jpg Gauss Pistol - (IN-13 4mm).JPG
Imperial Army (& Imperial Marine) / Imperial Navy (ca I.Y. 1000)
 
Back
Top