Need LBB2 trade clarification

[Maladominus]

I think I interpreted the LBB2 classic trade rules a little erroneously.

In particular, I am looking at the Actual Value Table.

example

Die roll 2 40% (of base value)
Die roll 3 50%
Die roll 4 70%
etc etc etc

Anyways, I understand that when the players PURCHASE cargo, you take the base value of the goods (multiplied by the size/tonnage), then roll on the Actual Value table. AND THEN you adjust the actual value with the DMs... from the world's classification (for example Rich world).

Here is my question: during PURCHASE OF CARGO, does the character skills also apply as positive DMs? skills to consider Broker/Bribery/Admin. Hence, when a Player Merchant (skill Broker-2) wants to buy some cargo of Polymers, the roll is a 6, does he then subtract 2 from that roll, in order to make his actual cost cheaper?

Orrrr.... is the Broker/Bribery/Admin DM bonus (to the Actual Value Table) only apply for SELLING the cargo?

LBB2 makes this wording very vague. One would think that a skilled Broker/Briber/Scoundrel could easily apply his skills into lowering the cost of cargo lot that he wishes to purchase. Right?

 

[Maladominus]

I think I interpreted the LBB2 classic trade rules a little erroneously.

In particular, I am looking at the Actual Value Table.

example

Die roll 2 40% (of base value)
Die roll 3 50%
Die roll 4 70%
etc etc etc

Anyways, I understand that when the players PURCHASE cargo, you take the base value of the goods (multiplied by the size/tonnage), then roll on the Actual Value table. AND THEN you adjust the actual value with the DMs... from the world's classification (for example Rich world).

Here is my question: during PURCHASE OF CARGO, does the character skills also apply as positive DMs? skills to consider Broker/Bribery/Admin. Hence, when a Player Merchant (skill Broker-2) wants to buy some cargo of Polymers, the roll is a 6, does he then subtract 2 from that roll, in order to make his actual cost cheaper?

Orrrr.... is the Broker/Bribery/Admin DM bonus (to the Actual Value Table) only apply for SELLING the cargo?

LBB2 makes this wording very vague. One would think that a skilled Broker/Briber/Scoundrel could easily apply his skills into lowering the cost of cargo lot that he wishes to purchase. Right?

 

[RainOfSteel]

AFAIK, Broker may be used for purchase and sale.

Broker is not a skill in Book 2, so strictly speaking, it cannot be used when staying only with that system (although I ignore that). The system does not discuss the use of other skills, so also strictly speaking, they cannot be used (and I ignore that, too).

Broker is introduced in Book 6, where it can be, "[...] applied as a DM on the actual value table."

In Book 7 (p.38 col.1), this is nerfed with a limit of a +4 DM.

-------------------------------------

It is up to the GM as to whether or not other skills apply in strict Book 2.

In Book 7, Admin may be used as a DM on the middle passenger table.

In Book 7, Bribery my be used as a DM on the AVT. 2 levels of Bribery is worth a +1 DM. and costs a kickback of 7%. I would also mandate a risk of legal entanglement, but this is not mentioned in the rules.

In Book 7, Carousing may be used as Steward skill at -1 for rolls on the high passenger table.

In Book 7, Liaison allows for a chance a larger cargos.

In Book 7, Steward allows for a DM on the high passenger table.

In Book 7, Streetwise allows for a DM on the low passenger table.

In Book 7, Trader allows one die on the AVT to be thrown in advance of the sale date, 3 days per level.

-------------------------------------

Personally, I see Broker as such a huge influence on purchase and resale, that I think I would assign a Broker skill to seller and buyer and apply it as a modifier in their favor. This should offset PCs going around using Broker skill to print money.

 

[RainOfSteel]

AFAIK, Broker may be used for purchase and sale.

Broker is not a skill in Book 2, so strictly speaking, it cannot be used when staying only with that system (although I ignore that). The system does not discuss the use of other skills, so also strictly speaking, they cannot be used (and I ignore that, too).

Broker is introduced in Book 6, where it can be, "[...] applied as a DM on the actual value table."

In Book 7 (p.38 col.1), this is nerfed with a limit of a +4 DM.

-------------------------------------

It is up to the GM as to whether or not other skills apply in strict Book 2.

In Book 7, Admin may be used as a DM on the middle passenger table.

In Book 7, Bribery my be used as a DM on the AVT. 2 levels of Bribery is worth a +1 DM. and costs a kickback of 7%. I would also mandate a risk of legal entanglement, but this is not mentioned in the rules.

In Book 7, Carousing may be used as Steward skill at -1 for rolls on the high passenger table.

In Book 7, Liaison allows for a chance a larger cargos.

In Book 7, Steward allows for a DM on the high passenger table.

In Book 7, Streetwise allows for a DM on the low passenger table.

In Book 7, Trader allows one die on the AVT to be thrown in advance of the sale date, 3 days per level.

-------------------------------------

Personally, I see Broker as such a huge influence on purchase and resale, that I think I would assign a Broker skill to seller and buyer and apply it as a modifier in their favor. This should offset PCs going around using Broker skill to print money.

 

[Maladominus]

Yeah. I prefer to stick with LBB2 Trade rules (because simpler rules systems are far far better for running an online virtual tabletop campaign), but have also embraced the advanced character generation rules in High Guard, Merchant Prince, Scouts, etc.

Hence, for the Merchant Prince characters in my campaign, they have the Broker skill.

You just got me to re-read the Broker skill description as it appears in Book 7, and you're right... it states "purchase and resale of goods". So now that clearly answers my question, since Broker skill does in fact modify the AVT in both the purchase phase as well as the resale phase.

Thanks for the feedback.


P.S. ---- one last question: do skills like Bribery-1 and Broker-2 stack together to modify the same AVT die roll? Or is it better to simply "use the higher skill" and go with that?

 

[Maladominus]

Yeah. I prefer to stick with LBB2 Trade rules (because simpler rules systems are far far better for running an online virtual tabletop campaign), but have also embraced the advanced character generation rules in High Guard, Merchant Prince, Scouts, etc.

Hence, for the Merchant Prince characters in my campaign, they have the Broker skill.

You just got me to re-read the Broker skill description as it appears in Book 7, and you're right... it states "purchase and resale of goods". So now that clearly answers my question, since Broker skill does in fact modify the AVT in both the purchase phase as well as the resale phase.

Thanks for the feedback.


P.S. ---- one last question: do skills like Bribery-1 and Broker-2 stack together to modify the same AVT die roll? Or is it better to simply "use the higher skill" and go with that?

 

[mike wightman]

In LBB2 Trade and Commerce DMs from skills and brokers' services are only used for resale.

World characteristic DMs are used for modifying the purchace price and the resale value.

Allowing the LBB7 definition of broker skill to be used on LBB2 T&C is too great an imbalance IMHO.

 

[mike wightman]

In LBB2 Trade and Commerce DMs from skills and brokers' services are only used for resale.

World characteristic DMs are used for modifying the purchace price and the resale value.

Allowing the LBB7 definition of broker skill to be used on LBB2 T&C is too great an imbalance IMHO.