Nerfing Book 2 power plants

[hcobb]

OK, I finally found a rule that doesn't really break any classic Book 2 design while nerfing the size class A munchkin designs.

Take the book 2 Power Plant letter and multiply by 4. (Note that this is at best 2 tons of fuel per energy point and twice the book 5 usage.)

So the Type C cruiser requires 240 tons of fuel for the jump drive and then its Power Plant-M requires an additional 12 * 4 = 48 tons for a total of 288 tons and it still has extra fuel for its small craft.

-HJC

 

[hcobb]

OK, I finally found a rule that doesn't really break any classic Book 2 design while nerfing the size class A munchkin designs.

Take the book 2 Power Plant letter and multiply by 4. (Note that this is at best 2 tons of fuel per energy point and twice the book 5 usage.)

So the Type C cruiser requires 240 tons of fuel for the jump drive and then its Power Plant-M requires an additional 12 * 4 = 48 tons for a total of 288 tons and it still has extra fuel for its small craft.

-HJC

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

"Nerfing"?

You just lost me. What is "Nerfing"?

 

[Jeff M. Hopper]

"Nerfing"?

You just lost me. What is "Nerfing"?

 

[mike wightman]

What's wrong with just using LBB2?

I only ask because as soon as you start building ships using High Guard, especially for civilian use, they end up costing a whole lot more, usually because of power plant costs.

 

[mike wightman]

What's wrong with just using LBB2?

I only ask because as soon as you start building ships using High Guard, especially for civilian use, they end up costing a whole lot more, usually because of power plant costs.

 

[hcobb]

Nerfing: The act of removing a rules loophole.

"You replaced Xena's round killing thing with a nerf ring?"

The problem with LBB2 is that a given letter of power plant produces the same number of EPs but its fuel usage goes down when its placed into a larger hull. Above 1kdt Book 2 Power Plants use less fuel than Book 5 plants.

-HJC
The Reign of Terra shall rise again!

 

[hcobb]

Nerfing: The act of removing a rules loophole.

"You replaced Xena's round killing thing with a nerf ring?"

The problem with LBB2 is that a given letter of power plant produces the same number of EPs but its fuel usage goes down when its placed into a larger hull. Above 1kdt Book 2 Power Plants use less fuel than Book 5 plants.

-HJC
The Reign of Terra shall rise again!

 

[mike wightman]

The whole book 2 drive paradigm doesn't fit the High Guard system, despite what High Guard says about using book 2 drives.

If you are going to nerf (I like that word) the power plant fuel what about the huge jump drives, and the tiny maneuver drives, in book 2?
Then there are the TL differences...

First edition High Guard did not use EPs, and power plant fuel is computed at 1% of hull tonnage per power plant number.

 

[mike wightman]

The whole book 2 drive paradigm doesn't fit the High Guard system, despite what High Guard says about using book 2 drives.

If you are going to nerf (I like that word) the power plant fuel what about the huge jump drives, and the tiny maneuver drives, in book 2?
Then there are the TL differences...

First edition High Guard did not use EPs, and power plant fuel is computed at 1% of hull tonnage per power plant number.

 

[daryen]

For the maneuver and jump drives, I would suggest switching them. Make the jump drives tiny, and the maneuver drives huge. Use the exact same charts, but change the labels. That fits better with Book 5.

 

[daryen]

For the maneuver and jump drives, I would suggest switching them. Make the jump drives tiny, and the maneuver drives huge. Use the exact same charts, but change the labels. That fits better with Book 5.

 

[mike wightman]

Alternatively it is the Book 5 tables that have been wrong all along.

Consider that when the second edition of CT was produced in 1981 it didn't switch them to match the tables in High Guard.

I think that one of the errors that crept into High Guard first edition was gatting the jump drive and maneiver drive percentages transposed.

This error was then copied across to High Guard second edition.

The Traveller Book and the Starter Traveller set maintained the LBB2 way of doing things.

High Guard is the one that's wrong

 

[mike wightman]

Alternatively it is the Book 5 tables that have been wrong all along.

Consider that when the second edition of CT was produced in 1981 it didn't switch them to match the tables in High Guard.

I think that one of the errors that crept into High Guard first edition was gatting the jump drive and maneiver drive percentages transposed.

This error was then copied across to High Guard second edition.

The Traveller Book and the Starter Traveller set maintained the LBB2 way of doing things.

High Guard is the one that's wrong

 

[hcobb]

The Book-2 J-drives are bulky but not expensive and the savings in M-Drive and PP make up for the increased fuel usage on even the Type C cruiser.

Type C (TL12)
Book-2: J-3 8% + M-3 3% + PP-3 5% = 16%
Book-5: J-3 4% + M-3 8% + PP-3 9% = 21%

Book-2 125 drives + 270 fuel = 395 tons
Book-5 168 drives + 264 fuel = 432 tons

Book-2 J-3 120 + M-3 48 + PP-3 96 = 264 MCr
Book-5 J-3 128 + M-3 32 + PP-3 216 = 376 MCr

2 kdton TL15 munchkin boat, Jump-4, 6 Gs.
Book-2 J-4 120 + M-6 47 + PP-6 73 = 240 tons
Fuel: 800 + 60 = 860. Total tonnage: 1100

Book-5 J-4 100 + M-6 340 + PP-6 120 = 560 tons
Fuel: 800 + 120 = 920. Total tonnage: 1480

 

[hcobb]

The Book-2 J-drives are bulky but not expensive and the savings in M-Drive and PP make up for the increased fuel usage on even the Type C cruiser.

Type C (TL12)
Book-2: J-3 8% + M-3 3% + PP-3 5% = 16%
Book-5: J-3 4% + M-3 8% + PP-3 9% = 21%

Book-2 125 drives + 270 fuel = 395 tons
Book-5 168 drives + 264 fuel = 432 tons

Book-2 J-3 120 + M-3 48 + PP-3 96 = 264 MCr
Book-5 J-3 128 + M-3 32 + PP-3 216 = 376 MCr

2 kdton TL15 munchkin boat, Jump-4, 6 Gs.
Book-2 J-4 120 + M-6 47 + PP-6 73 = 240 tons
Fuel: 800 + 60 = 860. Total tonnage: 1100

Book-5 J-4 100 + M-6 340 + PP-6 120 = 560 tons
Fuel: 800 + 120 = 920. Total tonnage: 1480

 

[daryen]

Sigg,

The problem is that I *like* the Book 5 paradigm. The bulky maneuver drives slow the ships down so that there is more of a difference between military ships (who take speed over cargo) and merchant ships (who have to sacrifice speed for cargo). Plus, with small jump drives, you can focus on the fuel tankages without having to also worry about where to fit the drive.

Small maneuver drives just seem to be asking for trouble by driving many more high-speed ships than there should be.

 

[daryen]

Sigg,

The problem is that I *like* the Book 5 paradigm. The bulky maneuver drives slow the ships down so that there is more of a difference between military ships (who take speed over cargo) and merchant ships (who have to sacrifice speed for cargo). Plus, with small jump drives, you can focus on the fuel tankages without having to also worry about where to fit the drive.

Small maneuver drives just seem to be asking for trouble by driving many more high-speed ships than there should be.

 

[mike wightman]

Hi daryen.

You'll be telling me you don't like jump 3 ships at TL9 next

To my mind it's economics that limits the maneuverability of merchant shipping, especially in the small ship paradigm of book 2.

The more I look at High Guard combat the more broken it becomes, and so I look more to integrating the weapons etc. into LBB2.

 

[mike wightman]

Hi daryen.

You'll be telling me you don't like jump 3 ships at TL9 next

To my mind it's economics that limits the maneuverability of merchant shipping, especially in the small ship paradigm of book 2.

The more I look at High Guard combat the more broken it becomes, and so I look more to integrating the weapons etc. into LBB2.