Nerfing Book 2 power plants

[daryen]

Sigg,

The big problem I run into is that, outside Book 2, the jump drive tonnage is almost perfectly consistent at (J + 1) * 1%. This is even true for systems as divertent as TNE and GT. As a result, I tend to favor the "small jump drive / large maneuver drive" paradigm.

Actually, I don't terribly mind the odd little ship that can operate outside the "normal" paradigm due to their small size. (E.g. J2 at TL9 with the scout and J3 at TL10 with the Type T, etc.)

Getting to your example of the X-boat, I am, however, not impressed that a design which was invalidated (by the changes between first and second edition Book 2), and was such an important ship to the Imperium, was never given a corrected design. (Heck, to my knowledge, it was never redesigned in any system outside GT!)

 

[daryen]

Sigg,

The big problem I run into is that, outside Book 2, the jump drive tonnage is almost perfectly consistent at (J + 1) * 1%. This is even true for systems as divertent as TNE and GT. As a result, I tend to favor the "small jump drive / large maneuver drive" paradigm.

Actually, I don't terribly mind the odd little ship that can operate outside the "normal" paradigm due to their small size. (E.g. J2 at TL9 with the scout and J3 at TL10 with the Type T, etc.)

Getting to your example of the X-boat, I am, however, not impressed that a design which was invalidated (by the changes between first and second edition Book 2), and was such an important ship to the Imperium, was never given a corrected design. (Heck, to my knowledge, it was never redesigned in any system outside GT!)

 

[mike wightman]

I wasn't thinking of the X-boat
Using a 200t hull you can build a jump 4 ship at TL9 - it's useless for anything else mind you

You can cram in a maneuver 2 and 2 hardpoints, three staterooms, and still have a whole ton left over for cargo.

While the jump drive tonnage remains consistent from High Guard onwards, the jump fuel doesn't. There is no "universal" standard. Even the small maneuver drive makes a comeback with TNE.

Good call on the X-boat design itself - even the version in Supplement 9 is a transposed book 2 design, I woder why they didn't redesign it with High Guard at the time?

 

[mike wightman]

I wasn't thinking of the X-boat
Using a 200t hull you can build a jump 4 ship at TL9 - it's useless for anything else mind you

You can cram in a maneuver 2 and 2 hardpoints, three staterooms, and still have a whole ton left over for cargo.

While the jump drive tonnage remains consistent from High Guard onwards, the jump fuel doesn't. There is no "universal" standard. Even the small maneuver drive makes a comeback with TNE.

Good call on the X-boat design itself - even the version in Supplement 9 is a transposed book 2 design, I woder why they didn't redesign it with High Guard at the time?

 

[hcobb]

You cannot have a Jump-4 ship at TL9.

By HG page 26 the model-4 computer is TL10 and there is no 3-Bis. (Fighting Ships page 12 gives the X-boat TL 10.)

How the X-Boat works wothout a power plant is a harder problem.

 

[hcobb]

You cannot have a Jump-4 ship at TL9.

By HG page 26 the model-4 computer is TL10 and there is no 3-Bis. (Fighting Ships page 12 gives the X-boat TL 10.)

How the X-Boat works wothout a power plant is a harder problem.

 

[mike wightman]

High Guard first edition allows bis models of any computer model

Unfortunately they have to be 1 TL higher than the base computer model, so the TL9 jump 4 ship is out - although the computer model must equal jump number rule is another change from first edition CT.

So I'll just have to go for a TL9 jump 3 example instead

Or the computer could be imported, the drives remain TL9

 

[mike wightman]

High Guard first edition allows bis models of any computer model

Unfortunately they have to be 1 TL higher than the base computer model, so the TL9 jump 4 ship is out - although the computer model must equal jump number rule is another change from first edition CT.

So I'll just have to go for a TL9 jump 3 example instead

Or the computer could be imported, the drives remain TL9

 

[murdocj]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

The more I look at High Guard combat the more broken it becomes, and so I look more to integrating the weapons etc. into LBB2.

Agreed.

I've recently dusted off my LBBs and have introduced CT to my son (age 10). And I've suddenly remembered how unfun High Guard combat was. Sure, designing the ships was a hoot, but doing anything with them was a downer. And even designing ships seemed unfun once you figured out the break-points and such. Why everyone everywhere didn't use the same ships when at the same tech level I never was able to figure out.

The amount of ship-to-ship combat dropped off significantly after we started High Guarding it. At about the same time, we shifted from Traveller to mainly playing AD&D, and I've always suspected that the lack of fun and the relative difficulty (and abstract nature) of combat contributed to the move. D&D combat was abstract, but it was simple and fun and pretty quick.

Now that I'm looking over things with an older and more-experienced eye, I see that HG blows. So I'm trying to cook up my own LBB2/Mayday hybrid with High Guard weapons thrown in. There's no way that my son (who's already familiar with tabletop Battletech) will buy into High Guard as is.

And, back on topic, I've always wondered why HG didn't seem to "mesh" with LBB2 at all. I suspect that Sigg Oddra might be right about HG being wrong all along.

I'm a long-time lurker making my first post here. Thanks to all for the many good ideas and for helping re-ignite the old Traveller fires.

 

[murdocj]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:

The more I look at High Guard combat the more broken it becomes, and so I look more to integrating the weapons etc. into LBB2.

Agreed.

I've recently dusted off my LBBs and have introduced CT to my son (age 10). And I've suddenly remembered how unfun High Guard combat was. Sure, designing the ships was a hoot, but doing anything with them was a downer. And even designing ships seemed unfun once you figured out the break-points and such. Why everyone everywhere didn't use the same ships when at the same tech level I never was able to figure out.

The amount of ship-to-ship combat dropped off significantly after we started High Guarding it. At about the same time, we shifted from Traveller to mainly playing AD&D, and I've always suspected that the lack of fun and the relative difficulty (and abstract nature) of combat contributed to the move. D&D combat was abstract, but it was simple and fun and pretty quick.

Now that I'm looking over things with an older and more-experienced eye, I see that HG blows. So I'm trying to cook up my own LBB2/Mayday hybrid with High Guard weapons thrown in. There's no way that my son (who's already familiar with tabletop Battletech) will buy into High Guard as is.

And, back on topic, I've always wondered why HG didn't seem to "mesh" with LBB2 at all. I suspect that Sigg Oddra might be right about HG being wrong all along.

I'm a long-time lurker making my first post here. Thanks to all for the many good ideas and for helping re-ignite the old Traveller fires.

 

[mike wightman]

Welcome aboard murdocjern

 

[mike wightman]

Welcome aboard murdocjern

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by murdocjern:
<snip>
I've recently dusted off my LBBs and have introduced CT to my son (age 10). And I've suddenly remembered how unfun High Guard combat was. Sure, designing the ships was a hoot, but doing anything with them was a downer.
<snip>

I play High Guard with my 10-yr old son, and he really enjoys making the ships. He likes playing a couple rounds of combat, but he looses interest if he doesn't win quickly.

 

[fredofmars]

Originally posted by murdocjern:
<snip>
I've recently dusted off my LBBs and have introduced CT to my son (age 10). And I've suddenly remembered how unfun High Guard combat was. Sure, designing the ships was a hoot, but doing anything with them was a downer.
<snip>

I play High Guard with my 10-yr old son, and he really enjoys making the ships. He likes playing a couple rounds of combat, but he looses interest if he doesn't win quickly.

 

[hcobb]

So what are these standard designs?

TL15, Jump-4, 1.2kdt missile boat?
19.9 kdt cruisers?
14 kdt battlerider?

What else?

 

[hcobb]

So what are these standard designs?

TL15, Jump-4, 1.2kdt missile boat?
19.9 kdt cruisers?
14 kdt battlerider?

What else?